Stanford’s Department of Management Science and Engineering

https://poetsandquants.com/2025/07/28/the-secret-stanford-program-no-ones-heard-about/

49•curioustock•6mo ago

Comments

lisper•6mo ago

This particular clickbait title formula -- The X No One Has Heard About -- drives me nuts because it is so manifestly self-defeating. Obviously someone has heard about it. At the very least, the author of the piece has heard about it, and now all of their readers have heard about it too.

cadamsdotcom•6mo ago

Ah, the classic “no one goes there anymore, it’s too crowded” :)

HN titles generally shouldn’t be clickbait.. what would you suggest instead?

lisper•6mo ago

In this case I would have gone with something like:

Management Science & Engineering (MS&E): Stanford’s interdisciplinary hub

taude•6mo ago

ha, no one would have clicked on that title. Needs some cta and pep in it.

But Claude gives me:

"Stanford's 230-Student Program That Produces More Unicorn Founders Than Most Schools"

"Why Stanford Engineers Are Choosing MS&E Over CS: A Technical MBA That Actually Works"

"Stanford's MS&E: The 7.8% Acceptance Rate Program Behind Instagram, Gusto, and Sourcegraph

"How Stanford's MS&E Became Y Combinator's Secret Feeder Program"

dylan604•6mo ago

You could have gone with something a bit catchier, "The Stanford Program that few people know about" which would have the same sentiment and would definitely get more clicks than your suggestion.

lisper•6mo ago

I guess that depends on what you think the purpose of these titles is: to get people to click, or to tell them what the article is actually about so they can make an informed decision whether or not to click. If your goal is the former then just go with "The secret to everything! Best article ever written! Must read!" no matter what the actual content is.

dylan604•6mo ago

Do you want people to read the thing or not. Giving the exact course name as the title guarantees very few people will read it. Telling the potential reader there's a class few people know about has a better chance. I think we can all agree that the point of any written text is for someone to read it at some point. How many books have titles that are descriptive of the contents and not something just to get you to at least pick it up and read the jacket? How many titles of movies or music albums as well? Just so as we are all clear that your attempt to be pedantic on a title definition was very much ignoring anything but something like a news headline

Obscurity4340•6mo ago

This is an extremely amusing turn of phrase

dylan604•6mo ago

Oh man, if you liked that, then you should read up on more Yogisms:

https://yogiberramuseum.org/about-yogi/yogisms/

hyghjiyhu•6mo ago

> no one goes there anymore, it’s too crowded

This seems like a paradox but actually isn't.

The trick is to correctly interpret what is actually being said. No one goes there anymore - this is clearly meant in a casual imprecise way not literally 0. So how can we precisely state what is meant?

I would interpret it as the proportion of some group of people going there is now very low.

On the other hand that it is crowded is a different thing. It says that the absolute number of people going there is too high. Furthermore, those people may be different from the group in the first part.

Two example scenarios:

* None of my friends go there anymore, the number of tourists is too high.

* As the city has grown, the place has reached capacity meaning that a smaller proportion of the city can visit.

alankarmisra•6mo ago

It's like the secret beaches in every south-east asian nook and crany. They're so secret there's signs pointing to them every where and they are overrun with tourists.

sas224dbm•6mo ago

Tony Wheeler has a lot to answer for

junar•6mo ago

Pretty sure any Stanford student would have heard about it. For students graduating in 2023-2024 year, Management Science and Engineering was the 9th most popular bachelor's degree and 7th most popular master's degree.

https://irds.stanford.edu/data-findings/degrees-conferred

tomhow•6mo ago

We've de-baited the title now.

apparent•6mo ago

Of the famous founders, over half were Stanford undergrads and therefore likely were "coterm" students. That means they just added a year to their degree and got this degree tacked on. That saves lots of time and money compared to going to Stanford as a master's student. There are a lot of things that are "worth it" if you don't have to move apartments/cities and get it for half the price — but which are not nearly as worth it if you're paying double and add the friction of moving to the area in order to enroll.

m-ee•6mo ago

I’m not sure how it factors into the overall admission statistics but getting accepted for a coterm is, or at least was, significantly easier and more straightforward. In my time it just meant a GPA above a certain cutoff, a letter of rec from a professor, and non embarrassing GRE scores. A very good letter of recommendation could make up for deficiencies in the other two. It’s not exactly a super selective elite club like the article implies if you’re already there for undergrad.

TMWNN•6mo ago

Can Stanford undergrads coterm in MS&E with any undergraduate major?

m-ee•6mo ago

Yes, I knew people who cotermed in MS&E (and other masters programs) with a different undergrad major. I think you just need to make sure you fulfill whatever prereq courses they ask for but my knowledge is old at this point. I imagine you’d be fine going from any engineering major to MS&E, but if you were an English major who happened to take a bunch of math and physics that would probably work too.

constantcrying•6mo ago

Maybe it is because I am not from the US and from a country with a very different work culture, but this whole thing seems ridiculously narcissistic. A person with such a degree becoming my coworker or my boss seems like a nightmare. Even talking to someone who "made it through" such a degree is something I would rather avoid.

mocmoc•6mo ago

this industry is rotten

lenerdenator•6mo ago

Things rot from the head down, and Stanford arguably counts as the head.

kj4211cash•6mo ago

It's not as bad as the article makes it sound. It is an operations research program with some startup-y courses tacked on. The post is just LinkedIn style cringe mixed with the hubris of Stanford alumni. The authors seem narcissistic but most graduates of the program are great.

coupdejarnac•6mo ago

I've taken a few graduate courses at Stanford MS&E through their non degree program, and I give the experience three thumbs up.

curioustock•6mo ago

Yes some people actually go NDO->part-time-> full-time. It's rare but possible.

mathattack•6mo ago

I've met several of these students. It's like an MBA, but less social networking and more math. (And can be done co-term or in a year)

So does it add some value to someone who is already getting a bachelors in EE, CS or similar? Sure.

Would I put a history major with an MS&E degree in charge of anything significant? Probably not.

I suspect that the admissions rate of 7% is independent of coterms.

TexanFeller•6mo ago

> Management Science

It’s jarring and galling to see management and science put together in a way that’s suggestive of management being a science. It reeks of stolen valor.

Obligatory Feynman on “sciences”: https://youtu.be/tWr39Q9vBgo?si=SYTZSNA0G-RZDguA

cschmidt•6mo ago

I think in this context Management Science is an older term that was synonymous with operations research. The flagship journal of Informs (the institute for operations research and management science) has the same name. Studying how to optimize thing, lots of statistics and math. Stanford was at the forefront of the field from George Danzig onwards. So not trying to make management a “science” in this case.

cschmidt•6mo ago

I’m not sure about this masters program, but the undergrad program seems to be proper ORMS.

MADEinPARIS•6mo ago

I met a guy who raised $250MM, and dropped out of the program. Spoiled.

fernirello•6mo ago

Has anyone seen publicly accessible content from the startup-ish MS&E courses? I think Coursera had a MOOCified version of “Startup engineering”, but that was over a decade ago and it didn’t last long anyway. It was great back then.

SectorC: A C Compiler in 512 bytes

The F Word

Brookhaven Lab's RHIC concludes 25-year run with final collisions

Speed up responses with fast mode

Software factories and the agentic moment

Tiny C Compiler

Hoot: Scheme on WebAssembly

Stories from 25 Years of Software Development

OpenCiv3: Open-source, cross-platform reimagining of Civilization III

The Waymo World Model

First Proof

Show HN: A luma dependent chroma compression algorithm (image compression)

Italy Railways Sabotaged

Al Lowe on model trains, funny deaths and working with Disney

Vocal Guide – belt sing without killing yourself

I write games in C (yes, C)

Start all of your commands with a comma (2009)

Show HN: I saw this cool navigation reveal, so I made a simple HTML+CSS version

Reinforcement Learning from Human Feedback

Selection Rather Than Prediction

72M Points of Interest

A Fresh Look at IBM 3270 Information Display System

The AI boom is causing shortages everywhere else

Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

France's homegrown open source online office suite

Unseen Footage of Atari Battlezone Arcade Cabinet Production

Where did all the starships go?

Show HN: Kappal – CLI to Run Docker Compose YML on Kubernetes for Local Dev

We mourn our craft

Learning from context is harder than we thought

SectorC: A C Compiler in 512 bytes

The F Word

Brookhaven Lab's RHIC concludes 25-year run with final collisions

Speed up responses with fast mode

Software factories and the agentic moment

Tiny C Compiler

Hoot: Scheme on WebAssembly

Stories from 25 Years of Software Development

OpenCiv3: Open-source, cross-platform reimagining of Civilization III

The Waymo World Model

First Proof

Show HN: A luma dependent chroma compression algorithm (image compression)

Italy Railways Sabotaged

Al Lowe on model trains, funny deaths and working with Disney

Vocal Guide – belt sing without killing yourself

I write games in C (yes, C)

Start all of your commands with a comma (2009)

Show HN: I saw this cool navigation reveal, so I made a simple HTML+CSS version

Reinforcement Learning from Human Feedback

Selection Rather Than Prediction

72M Points of Interest

A Fresh Look at IBM 3270 Information Display System

The AI boom is causing shortages everywhere else

Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

France's homegrown open source online office suite

Unseen Footage of Atari Battlezone Arcade Cabinet Production

Where did all the starships go?

Show HN: Kappal – CLI to Run Docker Compose YML on Kubernetes for Local Dev

We mourn our craft

Learning from context is harder than we thought

Stanford’s Department of Management Science and Engineering

Comments