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US tech rules the European market

https://proton.me/blog/us-tech-rules-europe
61•devonnull•3h ago

Comments

bigyabai•3h ago
Wait until they find out whose market Taiwan rules.
betaby•2h ago
Somewhere in 2005-2010 mail was declared for some reason a hard problem and outsourced to Microsoft and Google. The rest if the history.
esafak•2h ago
All apps simply moved to the cloud. It was not just email. Let somebody else worry about it.
hulitu•1h ago
> mail was declared for some reason a hard problem and outsourced to Microsoft and Google

lobby and corruption. But i repeat myself.

smnrchrds•51m ago
My alma mater moved from self-hosting email to Microsoft after a major data breach. Keeping high-value internet-connected things secure is indeed hard.
ruszki•12m ago
You can misconfigure your SaaS too. And it’s not that difficult to learn how to secure your system… you just need to want to learn it, which is rarely the case. The topic itself is not that difficult, you don’t need to know cryptography in details in reality to make something secure. You just need to care. But most of the people are fine with copy-pasting from StackOverflow level of caring, which is absolutely not enough with security. But once again, you have the same problem with SaaS.

The main reason to switch to SaaS is that it’s less of your responsibility anymore. The decision is made mainly not because of technical but legal or budget reasons.

dijit•2h ago
> 74% of Europe’s publicly listed companies rely on US-based tech like Google and Microsoft.

Only 74%?

That feels wrong.

I don’t know a single company off the top of my head that wouldn’t suffer serious damage if you null-routed Google and Microsoft’s servers.

Excel rules the world, and even if it didn’t: nobody is running libreoffice on linux professionally, at least not that I am aware of- and hosting mail? Conventional wisdom is that you should outsource that: I don’t seriously believe that people would outsource mail and not go with Google/Microsoft and get a productivity suite “for free”.

rich_sasha•1h ago
I worked for two companies who ran two separate stacks. One was all Windows and was a glorified email / Excel thing for talking to clients. All the business logic was on a separate network and was all Linux.

If Windows pulled the plug, it would be a major PITA but no more.

kinow•1h ago
I think Microsoft servers include GitHub? If so, that'd have a huge negative impact on research and academia in EU, as well as software development (even some web pages using JSresources from GitHub pages directly).
dismalaf•1h ago
> Excel rules the world, and even if it didn’t: nobody is running libreoffice on linux professionally, at least not that I am aware of- and hosting mail?

It has remarkable stickiness but the replacement for Excel isn't another spreadsheet, it's programming + databases. SAP and other custom business software are pretty big especially in large organizations. Word is pretty replaceable, as is the rest of MS Office, especially if you have a custom solution instead of relying on Excel. Self-hosting email is definitely a thing for massive corporations. And don't forget 2/3 of the big Linux vendors are European.

74% tracks. Lots do depend on MS and Google solutions, but enough don't.

gbalduzzi•44m ago
You can replace excel with programming and a DB only up to a certain point.

The advantage of excel is that any office worker can perform data manipulation there. It can't be replaced for una-tantum operations on data, because it isn't practical to do custom implementations every time you need something.

The alternative is to teach programming to every office worker and give them access to the db. Not sure it's a good idea

dismalaf•36m ago
I wish this site had emojis so I could spam the facepalm emoji.

You don't make every worker learn programming. You either hire programmers to make a custom financial suite so that people can input things and then the software does the relevant calculations, or you buy one. SAP is an example of that. They're not worth 300 billion for no reason. There's also custom suites for many different industries, because many have different needs.

The point is that the ability to make custom software replaces Excel... Since Excel is extremely prone to allowing users to mess up.

iknowstuff•2h ago
> Big Tech companies dominate, not because they’re better, but because they have the first mover’s advantage

Uuuh says who? I think they dominate because they are in fact better for business for one reason or another.

esseph•2h ago
Being good at other things can have them generate enough money to blow trying to be good at a $NewThing that smol players only doing $OneThing can't hope to match.
unethical_ban•1h ago
Google drive is awful, completely atrocious to navigate and reason about.
iknowstuff•1h ago
Cool but GCP or AWS is overall running circles around OVHCloud.

GSuite and O365 are better for businesses than uhhh… what is the european equivalent even? Tutanota and protonmail + libreoffice?

SllX•1h ago
People aren't using Google Drive for the Drive per se or the crappy online file system UI, they're there for the apps: Docs & Sheets are the killer apps: good enough as a word processor & spreadsheet combo for any basic tasks, real-time collaboration that is still first-class and maybe unmatched (or at least the closest matches I can think of are still American vendors), and plenty of people are educated in their use, especially anybody who went to school any time after 2008. Also you know, Gmail: still a great webmail service, and part of Google Workspace too.
satvikpendem•48m ago
I store a lot of things in Google Drive, works just fine for that purpose.
vachina•2h ago
You need talent to make tech that people want to use. Europe does not have that talent pool nor do they actively retain or attract such talents.

Also them being fully subscribed to capitalism: let other people solve my problems.

wkat4242•2h ago
We have plenty of talent. And we don't care as much about money. I chose to move to a lower income country within the EU just because I like life there better. I would never move to the US. In fact I wouldn't even consider visiting, even if my work asks me to.

The reason tech isn't so big here is that there's more regulation and less loose capital. Both aren't bad things IMO. Venture capital is pure gambling in the US. We don't subscribe to the American unrestricted capitalism here (well except for the UK and Netherlands which are heavily influenced by America)

edg5000•1h ago
Never heard about NL and UK having US-like venture capital situations. I always hear complaints that it's harder to raise in the EU. I've never heard NL and UK meantioned as an exception before. I understand the close US ties, but can you elaborate more on the venture capital thing?
burnerthrow008•1h ago
The Dutch invented modern capital markets, so it tracks that they might be more US-like in that regard.
LAC-Tech•1h ago
I mean the British invented railways, doesn't mean they have a good train system in 2025.
abrahms•1h ago
If you recall that "venture capital" was literally about financing ships in the 16-1700s.. it would make sense that NL & UK, both massive naval powers, would have some experience and a culture around VC.
throw_m239339•1h ago
The EU has plenty of talent, Most startups in the EU simply do not have access to the Venture capital pool that exists in USA.
enaaem•1h ago
Indeed. Europe lacks a unified capital market and contrary to popular belief, you actually need more EU regulations to make that happen.
braza•18m ago
> Europe does not have that talent pool nor do they actively retain or attract such talents.

Disagree. Not only does Europe have the demographics and educational institutions, but on top of that, it has very high social mobility [1].

I agree 100% related to the retention of talent, but I have a different perspective: I think there exist 2 kinds of retention, (I) environmental and institutional retention and (II) organizational retention.

At the (I), you have all the things that Europeans bring here when such discussions happen: accessibility to public health care, a range of public services, less inequality, access to education, and so on.

At the (II) come the big companies and their perks, mission, compensation, impact on society, organizational culture, rewarding mechanisms for ambition, and allow people work satisfaction. And a market large enough to allow some work mobility (change seats and plenty of opportunities).

Being in Central Europe, I can say we have (I) but are lacking at the (II).

I have been around for almost a decade, and my general impression is that people have some mixture of a bit of professional cope that sublimes to work contentment and, honestly, unless you have a big reason and/or financial offset to stay due to (I) personal circumstances, people that can have options will choose (II).

[1] - https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/residence-ri...

edg5000•1h ago
I agree with the premise of the article. It really bothered me when I realised I couldn't delete my business listing Google Maps, only set it to "permanently closed". And my bank, my countries' largest, one year ago dropped NFC in favour of Google Pay. Not to mention the Google popups that seem to appear on what seems every website (how did the manage this?!).

Personally I've moved to Zoho for mail and use Ubuntu with a rsync/zfs based backup solution. I'm not logged in to Google but I do use Google Search. On my phone I use a separate Google account specially for the phone, and I use F Droid, except for my bank, which only distributes their app through Google Play.

Why do you think the EU is trying to bully (ineffectively) US tech companies? I don't think bullying US companies is the solution. More embracing of Linux would help a lot. Banks need to behave; making Google Play store a requirement for banking should not be allowed by the authorities, since banks play a special role. Then there is search and maps. Something should be done about that as well. Maybe something like an EU-based perplexity/anthropic competitor would be great.

dismalaf•1h ago
> Maybe something like an EU-based perplexity/anthropic competitor would be great.

Mistral?

hulitu•1h ago
> Why do you think the EU is trying to bully (ineffectively) US tech companies?

Because this increases lobby spending. Win-win.

dingi•49m ago
Ah yes, the EU. Always first in line to regulate the pixel spacing in cookie banners, but when it comes to actual tech sovereignty or defense, it's "please, Uncle Sam, save us!" Peak performative independence.
hvb2•38m ago
But they still legislate, and pass budgets ;)
StopDisinfo910•31m ago
I think plenty here are asking the wrong questions.

The question is not so much are EU enterprises currently depending on offering by Google and Microsoft. The real question is what are the alternatives these companies could turn to if they needed to.

And the truth is that there exists solid alternatives from Asia to nearly everything they offer.

EU companies don’t need to reinvent anything. They have a great opportunity to diversify their supply chain.

t43562•2m ago
I am not sure this is avoidable. Whatsapp (and perhaps Telegram) are the dominant messaging/chat apps for example and that is European tech but it was inevitably going to be bought by some bigger company that wanted to be dominant and that was obviously going to be American.

Skype was at one point extremely popular and this is European but it was bought and squashed under the mountain of American poo that is MS Teams. Forgive me the rudeness but I wish to dispell the thought that American tech is automatically superior or that it wins by being good.

Then there's Linux - another European development that has rocked the world but has been bought and ruled by mostly American companies with the noticeable exception of Ubuntu (and a few others).

The World Wide Web - a blow for freedom and the spread of information coming from CERN that has again been captured and perverted into an advertisement delivery and spying system more powerful than the East German Stasi could possibly imagine.

We have Big Tech to thank for Nazi saluters, quite potentially for the attempt to break the world economy and the idea of turning all of humanity into basic income serfs which will not, of course, include the owners of big tech itself.

The EU is the only entity that hasn't been completely perverted by the power of big tech and we have to hope like hell that it won't be. To all those with shares in big tech or jobs in it who want to expand and rule - go ahead and vote me down - who would expect anything else!

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