Imagine the half onion is a half rainbow. You know there’s another half rainbow lurking below the surface, the onion’s ghost of the sphere it once was. Place your knife as usual for each of your ten dice cuts, but instead of cutting straight down towards the cutting board, angle it slightly inward towards the end of the onion’s ghostly half-rainbow sphere below the board. Check your fingers for safety and then make your cut. Assuming your knife isn’t a plasma cutter, you’ll be stopped at the cutting board without ever reaching the onion at the end of the rainbow, and that’s cool. Set your knife at the next dice point and try again :)
(This still improves on the other dicing cases and only costs 1% uniformity by using 100% radius as the target.)
what does this mean, exactly? I don't cut onions. Also I assume there is some pre-step where you cut the onion in half on some axis, but I don't know which.
I also like that the article ends with the perfect Kenji-ism. "Yes, technically my method is statistically ideal, but like, it's home cooking and it doesn't matter, heterogenity isn't the enemy". Reminds me of Adam Ragusea (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cWRCldqrxM), we're not making fancy french cuisine, we don't need a perfect brunoise!
I’ve always just made equal horizontal and vertical cuts, then slice the onion crosswise.
This results in pretty much no large pieces, and only some smaller pieces (which I prefer over larger ones, anyway).
I don’t care about standard deviation — I only care about minimizing the maximum size (but still without turning them to mush).
(Also, I know this was more of a fun mathematical look at chopping onions vs. practical. But still the “two horizontal cuts” thing seemed to be practical guidance, when it seemed like just equal horizontal and vertical cuts is far superior. But, granted, it’s a little trickier to do.)
EDIT: looking at Youtube, looks like the 2-cut thing is normal. But adding a few more cuts isn’t that much harder, and eliminates the larger pieces from the 2-cut method. I’ll stick to my method, even if it’s a little more work.
In my experience it does worse, as the onion gets unstable to do the vertical cuts.
I really struggled to effectively cut onions until this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwRttSfnfcc
Haven't looked back since.
Thanks much!
Michelin-rated chefs have been quoted as believing that washing wild mushrooms makes them soggy and removes their "wild flavor". Which are both provably false.
https://old.reddit.com/r/FastWorkers/comments/1dl1xpz/fast_o...
They made the horizontal cuts evenly spaced between the cutting surface and the top of the onion, which is nonsensical to me. I believe that a single horizontal cut at around 15-20% height would be better for uniformity than a horizontal cut at 50% height.
The other thing is that this seems to ignore that the onion is round in the other direction too. As far as I can see, it only covers the first dice cut.
This way of calculating doesn't take into account the creative ways you can make cuts. You could also do mostly vertical slices, and then slightly angle inwards when you do the final few cuts. That would get you a more optimal distribution as well.
Of course, as the article points out, the horizontal cuts don't really do much that a chef should care about. You can dice an onion super fine with just vertical cuts very close together. And it's a lot faster and easier. You might angle some of the cuts towards the edges. But honestly, even that is unnecessary and a bit overkill. With a good knife, you can put the vertical cuts really close together. So close that any kind of angle would mean the cuts cross each other. Once you are that close, a horizontal cut really does not matter. And if you do a rough cut, the size matters even less.
If you are interested in this topic, there's a French chef on Youtube called Jean Pierre who is full of practical wisdom and techniques. You can learn a lot from him. And he's highly entertaining to watch too. He's very opinionated on onions. Or Onyo as he pronounces it. You won't see him making horizontal cuts, ever.
In my opinion, so long as you are chopping onions, all is well. Sure it could be dangerous, with fingers and egos at stake, but far worse is to not be chopping onions as that means ready meals, take out meals and having a poorer diet.
On a more serious note, thanks for posting this and letting me (us?) know about "The Pudding".
If you want diced onions, the cook generally wants onion chunks below a certain cubic mass, so they cook and dissolve easily and uniformly. It does not matter if some pieces are 50% of that size, some are 20% and some are 80%.
With that, 1-2 horizontal slices and a bunch of straight downward slices are the safest and easiest way to achieve that.
That technique also expands to onion rings, sauteed onions and such.
If some pieces are twice the size of your average size, these pieces will be raw, when the others are done.
And if you have some pieces that are half the size of the average they will burn by the time the rest are done.
They are fairly well approximated as ellipsoids of different sizes. Typically, I want pieces around half the volume of the smallest potatoes, but with the range of sizes, this means cutting the larger ones into at least 5 pieces. While it would be simple to make parallel slices giving equal volume, these would have very different shape to the halved smalls. Some can be quartered to give nice chunks, others into thirds with 2 perpendicular cuts...
Even Lopez-Alt suggests, "It matters far more for winning internet debates and solving interesting math problems than it does for cooking."
* Radial is more convenient than the classic horizontal cut.
* Radial with an origin below the cutting board is a better outcome than naive radial with almost zero extra effort.
All this to say: it was worth figuring that out!
* The spacing and angle of your cuts is going to vary much more if you are doing something more complex than top down cuts negating any gain in consistency.
* The outcome of the final dish isn't really any better so it doesn't matter at all.
After all there are many more approaches that can be more mathematically rewarding, might as well enjoy it when you can ;)
My method is to cut in quarters, give a quarter a vertical dice, rotate 90, do another vertical dice, then go longitudinal.
How to split a round cheese in in 5 perfectly without using any tools except the knife.
Assume you have the ability to cut in half perfectly always
Assume that if you can slice it in 10 equals pieces it is also a valid solution because you can just give two pieces for each
For the remaining 3, repeat this method.
Let epsilon be a number as small as you like...
First its feet, then its head then split its belly 'til its dead.
I used to work in fast food and this bad boy has a rate of 0.5 onions/sec and all of the resulting pieces are perfectly uniform squares. If you've ever wondered where the perfectly diced onions garnishing your burger came from, this is it.
It was a pain to clean though, as the blades were exceedingly sharp. Someone would cut their fingers about once a week on those things.
Veggies aren't meat.
This is the same for my frying pans. Just rinse them. When was the last time you saw someone use soap to clean a bbq?
Note I didn't say pots. Boiling isn't anywhere near as hot as frying.
The knife? The horrors! I do rinse it and remove all biological matter. Yes, there's still some there. I assure you the wooden block people use, is teeming with bacteria, so do you wash the knife before using it?
I wonder. I often pick fruit from trees, sometimes spit on it and then brush it off on my shirt. Do you do the same?
When you get home from the grocery store, do you wash all your veggies with soap? Or do you just use water? What about your fruit? All washed with soap?
If not, I assure you the fruit and vegetables are far worse than the knife, rinsed off.
And yes, I do wash my hands before preparing food -- and just before eating it. Veggies just aren't meat.
If they were, you'd never see someone eating an apple right from the store, a tree, or not washing them with soap first. I mean honestly, the grocery store apple has often traveled thousands of miles in a crate on a ship, been handled by people putting the food out, been handled by other customers, you, been in a bag that isn't sterilized.
I wonder again, how many use soap on that apple?
Of course when I eat an apple all that's left is the stem, so people are picky anyhow.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0362028X2...
https://boutiquedelabalayeuse.com/products/bloc-a-couteaux-p...
They're exceptionally popular in many places. It's not like people wash the holes, some are decades old. And at no point did I say they were 'teeming' with bacteria, I used it as an example of a thing not cleaned.
It's not like stainless is teeming with bacteria either, espcially when you rinse a knife off. It's far less porous and craggily than those wooden blocks after a decade of use.
The logic is simple; compare these things to other actions. Otherwise it's all show and theatre to make one feel good, like the TSA.
> And at no point did I say they were 'teeming' with bacteria
Is this not a direct quote from your previous comment: "I assure you the wooden block people use, is teeming with bacteria"?
But the problem isn't just wood, it's also long term dirt accumulation. And this study is absolutely not validation of your point, stating "Despite the many investigations on the topic, the antibacterial activity of wood is far from fully understood", while also saying different species, and hard vs softwood all have different tested effectiveness.
This is also about dry wood, yet I've seen countless people put their knifes away wet/damp. Some of these blocks rarely have time to dry.
I've also seen mould growing on soap, damp debris, and these are things which end up in the block's slots... never washed or cleaned.
I'm not saying don't use them, I'm saying it's silly to wash frying pans with soap, or vegetables only use knives with soap. Not needed.
Maybe some people do, but I also don't put any wet dishes and cutlery away, I have a dish drainer. If I found my soap was growing mould, I'd throw it in the bin, not write it off as a thing that happens and there's no need to worry about it.
> this study is absolutely not validation of your point, stating "Despite the many investigations on the topic, the antibacterial activity of wood is far from fully understood"
This is standard boilerplate present in nearly any paper, scientists never claim that a topic is fully understood and doesn't require any further research.
I also notice you haven't responded about washing food with soap. Or about BBQing. Please don't tell me you throw away canned food past its best before, too. That would crush my soul further.
If you do, please wait until tomorrow to do so, so I may steel myself for the shock.
On your other questions, I will refer you back to my earlier comment in case you missed it: "Just because I can't have my cooking utensils sterile 100% of the time doesn't mean I can't put minimal effort into reducing the risk."
That's an issue when there is enough of it to affect the final meal, not if there are microscopic amounts left on the surface of the pan. Just wiping a pan down is enough if you use it regularly.
Rancid oil is also not going to give you food poisoning like the guy that started this subthread claimed was happening.
Much better than the various food cutting tools available to consumers which (apart from knives) are always exceedingly dull IME to the point of being useless. An the weird shapes make them impossible to sharpen yourself.
For example, with tomato based sauces, I often have left overs. For those, sometimes it is not enough so I might add extra crushed tomato to the left overs.
Yet I won't cook that as long as the original dish. So I effectively end up with crushed tomatoes cooked to different amounts.
And you can taste it. It widens the flavour. Gives more depth. Since I noticed this, I often hold back a tablespoon or two of crushed tomatoes, giving long, short, and fresh tomato flavour. The fresh amount added is tiny, like adding spice!
For some dishes, I add fresh garlic but a tiny bit of garlic powder. Just a subtle hint of a slightly different garlic flavour.
Back to onions, different sized pieces cook more/less, and create more variance in flavour, as long as the cook isn't so long to completely cook them all.
I also like adding more than one type of onion to a dish.
Anyhow. Widen those flavours!
I made my own version of this a while back, and it lets you create your own cutting methods, plot the statistical distribution, and share your ideas via permalink. It also lets you tweak onion parameters, such as number of layers and the layer thickness distribution curve).
Along the way I discovered two things:
1. I came up with my own method ("Josh’s method" in the app above) where the neither the longitudinal cuts nor the planar cuts are full depth, so the number of cuts at the narrower core is less than at the wider perimeter.
2. After all this hyper-optimization about size, it turns out what really matters when cooking is the THICKNESS, since ultimately determines the cooking rate. The only way to avoid thin outliers that burn long before the rest are cooked is to discard more of the tip of the onion, where the layers are the thinnest.
The 3D version of the simulator is still in progress--turns out 3D geometry is a lot harder than 2D. :)
Pull requests are welcome! https://github.com/joshwand/onion-simulator
pfdietz•5mo ago
SoftTalker•5mo ago
criley2•5mo ago
I enjoy the art of prep with my beautiful wa gyuto, I truly do. But if you put a 5 pound bag of large onion on front of me to dice, I will prefer the machine...
dcrazy•5mo ago
criley2•5mo ago
webstrand•5mo ago
pfdietz•5mo ago
The most important part: much less eye watering.
crazygringo•5mo ago
And then do in reverse once it's clean. And you're wondering why it seems like too much trouble...?
Plus you still need the knife and cutting board anyways to chop off the ends of the onion before peeling it. So it's not even instead of, it's in addition to.
Much less time to dice it yourself for one or two onions. Ten or twenty onions, OK it's food processor time.
pfdietz•5mo ago
Overall, doing all this is much more convenient than manually chopping onions. It's not even close. This is one of the ideal use cases for a food processor.
crazygringo•5mo ago
pfdietz•5mo ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syn-Propanethial-S-oxide
crazygringo•5mo ago
If it's really bothering you, make sure your knife is sharp enough. A dull knife makes dicing much slower and releases many, many more compounds.
goopypoop•5mo ago
webstrand•5mo ago
But I don't really have trouble with my eyes with onions, that may be the deciding factor.
pfdietz•5mo ago
kazinator•5mo ago
dcrazy•5mo ago
maxerickson•5mo ago
pfdietz•5mo ago
bigstrat2003•5mo ago
I stick my food processor blades in the dishwasher all the time; never hurt them any.
account42•5mo ago
account42•5mo ago
tptacek•5mo ago