ElementaryOS – Thoughtful, capable and ethical replacement for Windows/macOS

https://elementary.io/

82•donutshop•5h ago

Comments

rckt•3h ago

Last time I tried it there was no way to upgrade between versions. One had to reinstall the os to upgrade.

But maybe this changed.

chakintosh•3h ago

This seems like a great OS to install on a child's computer

poly2it•3h ago

What makes an OS great for children?

BoredPositron•3h ago

I guess the 'Screen Time & Limits' app featured prominently further down the page.

bsimpson•3h ago

Elementary has been around for a long time. From what I recall, it tries to ape the Mac style on Linux the same way that KDE has been accused of aping Windows.

The original founder (Cassidy James Blaede) is now a designer for GNOME: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJq8Cq9LixE

I wonder why this is on the front page today.

noosphr•3h ago

OP probably had to update Windows today.

It's a weird world where KDE out of the box is more usable than Windows.

I gave the wrong laptop to my mother a few months back and she only told me when she finished banking that the windows menu looked funny (Like the hacker one you put on the family computer when you were 12.) it was KDE. Usually she asks for help at least once on windows for getting the wifi connected.

The year of desktop Linux was 5 years ago and we didn't even notice.

carl_dr•2h ago

/r/thathappened

She had an account on the wrong laptop?

sgc•2h ago

That is such an awkward comment and not really worthy of hn. Have you never logged into a bank website?

noosphr•1h ago

All my pcs have a locked down guest/guest account which gets nuked on logout.

taejavu•2h ago

It’s on the front page because Apple dropped the ball so hard with Tahoe that people are willing to entertain the thought of switching to just about anything other than macOS

desiderantes•2h ago

One of the two founders. The other one is Danielle Foré, still running the project.

stavros•3h ago

What's a popular rolling release distro that's fairly stable, but also modern, for my dad's computer? He just wants a good balance of "things won't break" and "things will get updated".

Ubuntu is ok, but maybe pop!OS or something else is better for him?

rahimnathwani•3h ago

Fedora isn't a rolling release but updates pretty often.

haunter•3h ago

Fedora Kinoite https://fedoraproject.org/atomic-desktops/kinoite/

I really do think that immutable distros are the future especially if you want something that don’t break. And imo KDE is arguably the best DE right now, that is if you believe DEs should follow the WinNT era UX principles.

But there is a version with GNOME too or Cosmic

https://fedoraproject.org/atomic-desktops/silverblue/

https://fedoraproject.org/atomic-desktops/cosmic/

stavros•2h ago

Thanks! I do love KDE, it's my daily driver.

Exit: OK immutable looks really interesting, thank you.

baobun•2h ago

Immutable is promising and Kinoite great but just heads up that since it's Fedora based you still have their major-release-upgrade cycle to follow.

There are rolling immutable/atomic distros but Kinoute is not one.

Alupis•2h ago

Been rocking Kinoite for 2 years now - several major Fedora release upgrades, and zero breakage. I do weird stuff in my "pet" containers (using distrobox), and I love how my base system remains indestructible no matter how much I goof around.

Immutable is indeed the future. The moment a user installs something on a traditional mutable OS, it's configuration/environment drifts from the "base", making any system update or application install a potential conflict. After you install something on a traditional mutable OS, there's often no way to get back to the base without a OS reinstall (programs don't clean up after themselves, they change system settings, environment, more/worse).

Immutable operating systems solve this by having an immutable base image. Everyone running, for instance, Kinoite 42.20251011.0 all have exactly the same base. Users then can "layer" applications on top of the base image, sort of like a dockerfile. If something breaks, you just remove that application (layer) and it's like it never happened. Everyone having the same exact base image also means updates can be much more thoroughly tested, and confidently rolled-out to users.

Note, "Immutable" doesn't mean you can't save files or install things - it just means you cannot mutate the base OS image. There's always a "known good configuration" to go back to.

You're also encouraged to use "pet" containers for things like development - where you will install all sorts of weird system packages, libraries, tools, etc. without fear of polluting or breaking your system.

An immutable system + pet containers means your system will always be stable. Really neat.

sbrother•53m ago

That sounds great. How well does the base OS + "pet" containers work with all the crazy dependencies you need to do modern ML work, e.g. some exact combination of nvidia drivers + CUDA + torch + other random stuff? That's the pain point I'd be motivated enough to solve that I'd switch distros.

TingPing•4m ago

nvidia drivers are annoying since Fedora doesn’t distribute them. But once installed it works well enough.

n4bz0r•2h ago

Isn't the state (apps' data in this case) the biggest problem with updates of any kind? State can't be immutable and is the easiest to break.

I can certainly see how containerizing apps and using "layered" FS solves a class of problems, but I highly doubt this alone would be incentive enough for the major OSes to go that way. I do agree it would be neat to see such developments, though.

zeech•3h ago

openSUSE Tumbleweed sounds like it would fit the bill. It's both rolling and has the benefit of having btrfs/snapper support baked in by default, so it's super easy to roll back anything if it breaks.

lproven•3h ago

I was going to make the same recommendation.

stavros•2h ago

Interesting, thank you, though I'm a bit wary of btrfs.

jamesgill•3h ago

Are you sure he wants a rolling release?

If so, then Manjaro.

If not, I always say:

From Windows? > Mint.

From MacOS? > Ubuntu.

The answer is almost always one of those two for non-technical people.

baobun•2h ago

Manjaro is a mess. EndeavourOS is similar (both are Arch derivatives) but less breaky and something I'd recommend more.

stavros•2h ago

Basically he doesn't bother updating his computer, so I want something that will auto-update to fairly modern versions, that's why I mentioned stability as a requirement.

What's wrong with rolling release?

jaidan•3h ago

I’ve been daily driving Linux Mint for about 4 years. It’s usable and stable with standard software packages and can also be tweaked in the Linux way if you so need it.

Another person mentioned Ubuntu if coming from Mac. I haven’t considered it before but they’re probably right.

I was using Mac at home, but Windows at work. So moving to Mint was easy.

Ubuntu was OK on high performance hardware but when they introduced snaps nothing worked so I moved to Mint.

HTH

andrepd•2h ago

Also recommend Mint, but it's not a rolling release like OP asked.

stavros•2h ago

Hm that's interesting as an alternative to Ubuntu, thanks!

pSYoniK•2h ago

I put Zorin OS on my dads old laptop 5 years ago and I think the only time I got a question was when someone setting up his new internet was digging through network settings but hadnt used any Linux distro before. Even then it was a 5 min call. Its a very Windows-like experience and I've noticed most parents really just write an email, browse the web and maybe consume media. All of those can occur in a browser.

baobun•2h ago

My two recommendations would be openSUSE Tumbleweed or EndeavourOS. In particular Tumbleweed is underappreciated around here I think.

BTW, what makes you look for rolling-release distro specifically?

Ubuntu and pop are not rolling release. Neither is Fedora.

stavros•2h ago

Basically my dad never upgrades his computer, I have automatic updates on but OS upgrades aren't done automatically, so I wanted rolling release to get past that. What's the issue with rolling release?

baobun•2h ago

Makes sense since there won't be any release-upgrade process every 6/12/24/whatever months. You'll still have obviously have updates though.

Asking since none of the examples you were considering are actually rolling, it wasn't clear what you're after.

stavros•2h ago

Yes but those updates can be automated, right? I'm just trying to avoid the release update.

baobun•2h ago

Sure and sounds reasonable. Then you will have to force reboots Windows style - having the same old kernel running for months or years on an online desktop can be hazardous if he never shuts it down.

janc_•2h ago

Rolling release & stable are mutually exclusive…

Wowfunhappy•2h ago

GP probably means stable in the sense of "not buggy" as opposed to "won't change".

stavros•2h ago

Yes, exactly. A lag of a few months is fine if it means the software doesn't have huge bugs.

Qem•3h ago

IIRC ElementaryOS had the distinction of using mostly Vala/Genie for development of distro specific software. Is that still the case?

janc_•2h ago

They certainly still recommend it. Too bad the evolution & development of Vala itself has stagnated mostly.

actionfromafar•1h ago

IMHO they missed the boat - they should have pushed Objective C and later Swift. Lots of Mac / iOS developers were curious about Elementary when it was new.

themafia•3h ago

> We review all AppCenter apps to ensure they’re properly using permissions

Who is "we?" How is that team selected? Are their decisions public? What is the review or appeal process like?

DanRabbit•2h ago

“We” is just our developer community. Folks that have write access to our git repos.

We manage AppCenter reviews as pull requests to a public git repository: https://github.com/elementary/appcenter-reviews

There’s some more documentation for developers here: https://docs.elementary.io/develop/appcenter/publishing-requ...

doug_durham•3h ago

I find the description of the project to be patronizing. "Just the apps you need"? How do you know what I need? What about the battery life I need, or the excellent touchpad support that I need? Most distros drop the ball on those fundamental things.

yunnpp•3h ago

Cannot recommend. The software center immediately broke itself into a loop of god-knows-what error that rendered itself unable to update the system. The system generally suffered from poor usability as well. Cannot comment much further because I didn't use it very long. I paid $20 for it and wish the project well, but it's a pass from me for the time being.

naasking•2h ago

I recently installed it on a 13 year old old MacBook, haven't had any issues.

literatepeople•2h ago

I am still a sponsor or elementary and used it for years, and often the first few months are fine until you hit a wall or need to upgrade it. recently switched to Fedora and have been much happier.

renewiltord•2h ago

Oh I remember using this years ago. It was pretty good. My memory always confuses it with enlightenment which had fancy compositing on a crappy computer in the early 2000s which I loved it for.

StopDisinfo910•2h ago

Did Elementary change designer?

This version seems to have flaws I didn’t see in the old announcements. Spacing and padding are a bit inconsistent and sometimes a bit strange. Font sizing can be weird and alignment is hit and miss especially when icons and text are involved.

Clearly these are details but I’m wondering if they lost man power on these points. I still greatly appreciate the project ambition and am impressed by what they have managed to achieve.

wsgeorge•2h ago

I fell in love with elementaryOS when I first learned about it c. 2013, and followed it closely (used to read commits weekly) for perhaps a year. It was one of the first open source projects I really loved. But I eventually went back to Ubuntu because I was newish to Linux and I needed something that Just Worked™, without the funny business.

I eventually fell out of love with elementaryOS when the team seemed to double down hard on some unpopular design decisions wrt window control buttons/behaviour, for instance.

I always felt that they had taken on more than they could chew, and all the good will of their community wasn't going to change that fact. To this day I maintain that the project should have just been Pantheon, the Desktop Environment. The team seems to have strong opinions about UX, and that's where most of that matters.

I'm not the only one who thought of that, and the team's justifications for their decision to roll their own distro never came across as strong.

I've since moved on (to macOS and Ubuntu one the side), but once in a while I browse the official sub for the latest. I've never shaken off that feeling that the really talented founders could have spent their energy more wisely.

kingforaday•2h ago

Serious question. What does the project mean by ethical replacement?

The main webpage makes no further declaration around it for deeper understanding. Nothing in support pages or in developer resources. Anyone else familiar with the project that could describe why that needed to be called out?

sergiotapia•2h ago

Probably a dig at DHH given the tremendous growth and popularity of Omarchy. He's being attacked for "being a nazi" by the usual suspects.

crtasm•2h ago

It's been there for at least 4 years so I would think not

https://web.archive.org/web/20210902014243/https://elementar...

sergiotapia•2h ago

I stand corrected!

baggy_trough•2h ago

"I happen to own a little open source software company that is expressly anti-fascist, has a “No AI” policy, and has recently been called “aggressively queer” in case you’re interested in supporting tech companies like that:"

https://mastodon.social/@danirabbit@mastodon.online/11535606...

nipperkinfeet•2h ago

Elementary OS is stuck in 2011, offering limited customization options. I remember having hard time adding desktop icons. These days, much superior distributions are available. Examples include Mint, EndeavourOS and Fedora...

Wowfunhappy•2h ago

Customization is great, but what's even better is when the defaults are just perfect to begin with...

DaSHacka•2h ago

But are any of those "aggressively queer"? Didn't think so.

Checkmate, Linux users

bigyabai•2h ago

Even as a happy Linux user and gay person, I have to admit that much of GNOME's design philosophy is queer to me.

hecifato•2h ago

Elementary was one of the first Linux distros I installed back in 2020. Eventually I moved on to other distros and DE’s. I was hopeful for Elementary eventually becoming THE Linux distro I would recommend people but it hasn’t happened yet, and I don’t know if it ever will.

I remember Elementary being big on UX, design, creating a universal app store for Linux, and providing a sane default type of experience. Pretty much all of that fizzled out over the past 5 years. GNOME and Plasma both leapfrogged Pantheon as a DE. Ubuntu, Debian, Mint, and Fedora are all far easier recommends over Elementary.

SOLAR_FIELDS•2h ago

My outside reading: there were about 2-3 key people driving the project at that time. My understanding is that right around that time or shortly thereafter there was a falling out of some sort between two of the key people, one left, and the momentum just tanked after that. Note that this is just an outsiders perspective gained from reading blog posts from the org and watching release cadences

valunord•2h ago

Can't use anymore. They are terrorists.

outcoldman•2h ago

Can anybody explain what is behind this statement? Tried to google, could not find much.

actionfromafar•1h ago

Queer people are terrorists now, don’t you read your GOP newsletter? /s

dang•2h ago

These seem to be the major related threads. Others?

Elementary OS 7 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34598987 - Jan 2023 (92 comments)

Elementary OS 6.1 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29627193 - Dec 2021 (142 comments)

Elementary OS 6 Odin - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28130560 - Aug 2021 (319 comments)

Elementary OS 6 beta - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27001736 - May 2021 (69 comments)

Cheers to 10 Years - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26658317 - April 2021 (77 comments)

Elementary OS 5.1 Hera - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21719028 - Dec 2019 (190 comments)

Elementary OS – Fast, open, privacy-respecting replacement for Windows and macOS - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18472018 - Nov 2018 (421 comments)

Elementary OS 5 Juno Is Here - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18236240 - Oct 2018 (15 comments)

Switching from macOS: Developer Environment - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12877045 - Nov 2016 (172 comments)

Switching from macOS: The Basics - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12853531 - Nov 2016 (593 comments)

Elementary OS - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12830761 - Oct 2016 (386 comments)

Elementary OS Loki 0.4 Stable Release - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12465763 - Sept 2016 (63 comments)

Elementary OS Freya Released - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9361477 - April 2015 (87 comments)

Elementary OS 0.3 “Freya” is released - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9359722 - April 2015 (62 comments)

Elementary OS Freya Beta 2 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9049592 - Feb 2015 (43 comments)

Myths about ElementaryOS - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7864397 - June 2014 (53 comments)

ElementaryOs Luna released - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6193148 - Aug 2013 (296 comments)

Elementary OS - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2781891 - July 2011 (79 comments)

Elementary OS - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2091736 - Jan 2011 (15 comments)

TheAceOfHearts•2h ago

I'm not sure if anything about this has changed since I last tried ElementaryOS an unknown number of years ago, but one of the issues I remember encountering was that applications that weren't built-in had inconsistent styling. I think you get a better more consistent and featureful experience just by using KDE.

Even the list of applications on AppCenter is woefully limited, compared to using Flatpack and being able to access the full repertoire of Linux Desktop applications.

bsimpson•1h ago

Isn't that just a Linux problem, where someone could be using GTK or Kirigami or Ice for widgets?

Most Mac developers use Cocoa/SwiftUI, so they get whatever widgets the UXEs at Apple have produced. Adobe famously did their post-2000 UIs in Java, so they have a nonstandard design system; you can tell they don't use Cocoa just by looking at their apps.

Since there's no Apple to make an official toolkit for Linux, each developer uses whatever he wants, which means this app might use the GTK Save button, whereas that one uses Kirigami.

hubrix•17m ago

I am wondering why no one is using the wonderful LLM coding tools to cut branches of open source apps rewriting them for consistent UI. From my experience with them so far this is a task that they would be really good at especially if the underlying codebase has decent test coverage.

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ElementaryOS – Thoughtful, capable and ethical replacement for Windows/macOS

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