I found PiKVM useful as I already had the hardware laying around, so setting one up didn't cost me anything, and its a pretty good experience. If I were to buy new though, not sure I'd find it worth the cost for my use case.
Why would one pick a TinyPilot over NanoKVM or JetKVM?
What does the board look like, why can’t I DIY that version, etc. Are they just trying to make it up with the software (that I also can’t tell what it looks like).
The V4 Mini is a very nice piece of hardware. I paid $300 for one in April from Amazon. I also got PiKVM running on a Pi Zero 2 W and it worked fine but was a bit squirrely. Having the purpose-built device is nice.
You can also use a Pi Zero 2 W as a serial console: it has a USB On-the-Go port perfect for the purpose. But the KVM approach is more generally useful since you can access a consumer BIOS from it.
In my case, I found it is not compatible with all HDMI sources but others just have unknown "Loading video stream..." issues.
On the other hand there are people who say "I ordered three, two work and one doesn't" which seems like pretty good evidence there can be real issues with the hardware.
Security is not top priority very obviously, but for a quick kvm on a system without bmc, it’s fine. Picks up DHCP quickly and responsive web UI.
I read that as you were selecting the first record from the people array
Given that these things have bare metal access, keeping them off of the public internet seems wise no matter what though.
Untrusted devices can sit on a separate VLAN or get WAN blocked, you can still reach them internally, and from any other device on Tailscale. You just need to expose the subnet via Tailscale subnet routing.
What I was wondering was: In order to get the device to talk to Tailscale to be able to reach it you need to give it access to the internet to reach Tailscale. But now I understand your answer and it is to let the device sit somewhere in an enclosed network and then through another trusted Tailscale node route any traffic to it using subnet routing. Thanks!
I don't think there is, in fact, room for a full HDMI port. Mini HDMI is a compromise, and everyone knows it. It wouldn't have been included if full size HDMI was feasible.
Also, where do you buy (IoT?) Sim cards cheaply, valid over entire continents or worldwide?
Nano KVM commits have stagnated a bit, but the form factor is really nice to have everything tucked away. I wish I could run JetKVM on the Nano KVM.
The big advantage of the PCIe version is that it does not take up space on the desk and all the cables for ATX power control an inside the PC case.
Full-sized HDMI is nice, the only limitation here is 1080p resolution. 1440p or higher would allow mirroring the output on the main monitor to the NanoKVM, but this probably a weird use-case anyway.
It would be awesome if they made a PoE version.
I wish there was a way of ordering from a non-US source so I didn't get hit. I'm not in the US, so it feels silly that I have to pay the American import tariffs on Chinese goods!
> US Tariff update: There are currently no additional tariffs, but this may change after November 1st. We’ll ship your order promptly to help minimize the risk of tariffs, though we can’t guarantee none will apply.
I am in the USA and the unit I ordered from iKoolCore is being shipped to me from China. I have no idea how much more I might have to pay in tariffs once it arrives to customs, or how I will even go about paying those tariffs.
My use-case is that I have it connected to an Raspberry Pi which I use to test the RPi builds of my application. I just ordered a second to connect to a mini-PC which is the minimum spec supported by my application. It has made my testing experience very smooth.
I think there just aren't as many options for DisplayPort capture chips as for HDMI/DVI capture.
Example: https://geekworm.com/collections/pikvm (but I think this still requires separate power)
To do this, wouldn’t you effectively need to make a graphics card (VGA would work) where a separate chip could read the screen buffer? And somehow get this card to display preferentially over the on-board video card?
I’m sure the all in one card version exists, but honestly a cabled version seems more robust (w/o vendor support that is).
If you do basic VGA (and UEFI), that'd be plenty for most. If it had a local output it'd be great for systems without video on the cpu (am4 non-apus, but also others)
0: https://anyware.hp.com/web-help/pcoip_remote_workstation_car...
0: https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/accessories-and-software/thin...
I got a cheap Tang Mega 238k but I never managed to even get the PCI examples working (and couldn't even adjust BAR settings)
Thereby, plugging in just a single USB cable would deliver the power needed, keyboard, video and mouse. And bonus for an emulated USB-Stick/DVD drive.
What I don't know if these USB video cards are initialized during early boot and usable during the UEFI/BIOS phase. Is that why they grab the HDMI?
JetKVM – Control any computer remotely - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42986909 - Feb 2025 (1 comment)
JetKVM Source - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42553822 - Dec 2024 (1 comment)
JetKVM – Next generation open-source KVM over IP for $69 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42313894 - Dec 2024 (2 comments)
JetKVM: Tiny IP KVM That's Not an Apple Watch - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41957056 - Oct 2024 (14 comments)
kvm here mean keyboard video and mouse, not the linux kernel-based virtual machine kvm
this device apparently is used to connect to machines remotely over IP
Letting an LLM loose on a real system without containing it in a sandbox sounds about as predictably disastrous as letting a glorified chess program run all ENCOM operations…
KVM can also be nicer than RDP for certain multi-box workstation setups that need high bandwidth and low latency.
E.g. you'd use JetKVM-like devices to re-install your OS via emulated drives, remotely control power (including hard reset, not just WoL and software shutdown), change BIOS settings, or troubleshoot a crashing box - all without relying on any specific software/capabilities/behavior of the given box. Meanwhile you'd use remote desktop software when you just want the desktop to present itself remotely.
I do VoIP phone systems for a living and this is why I deploy Supermicro mini-ITX servers, so even if something goes totally sideways as long as the client's IT is competent enough to get me remoted in to their voice network in some way I can troubleshoot it fully and in many cases fix it without leaving my desk possibly half way across the country. If it's an actual hardware problem and I can't fix it remotely I still then know for sure what's wrong and whoever's going on site can be properly equipped for the actual problem rather than having to bring everything.
WebRTC is neat. It looks like it relies on CloudFlare WebRTC relay for STUN / TURN, but supposedly you can self-host the cloud api. https://jetkvm.com/docs/networking/remote-access
I'd also point out the gl.inet Comet Pro, which has some nice to haves like wifi 6, full sized HDMI ports, HDMI and USB pass through. https://www.gl-inet.com/campaign/gl-rm10/
The PiKVM approach of having a whole computer you can also use makes so much sense to me. Interesting seeing similar parallels in NAS space, where Ugreen for example is running Debian on their NAS.
Running your own TURN server would be trivial also. I have been tempted for a long time to make a 'TURN in a Box' that does autoconfig so people can run it easily on Hetzner/AWS
Fortunately, Sipeed is like most other chinese manufacturers and have no idea what they're doing. Did they partner with Manjaro for that one? I don't think the Manjaro folks are even that incompetent.
With RDP/VNC what do you do if the machine fails to boot? Or RDP stops working for some reason and you can't SSH in?
Or for installing a headless OS on a new machine.
I'm sure there are more specific usecases as well but that's what I mainly use remote KVM devices for at home.
I’d say for many use cases, it’s not better than RDP/VNC, but if you’re looking access that is independent of the network and state of the system, JetKVM can’t be beat.
Without lights-out management, eventually physical access to power cycle will be needed.
For systems people care about, they already have BMC (Supermicro), iLO (HP), iDRAC (Dell) controllers.
Anything that can capture HDMI and spit it securely over a wire without some cloud-dependency bullshit, present "virtual USB" or input over the network, and close a RST circuit momentarily would do the job. The problem is, in the name of consumerishism and convenience, none of these home-gamer "solutions" have been independently audited that I know of by any reputable firm. (A competitor, NanoKVM, is known to be shady AF downloading serialized binary crap. It talks to tailscale without user permission, communication, or approval. Never use it for anything.) Don't trust something simply because there's press release or social media hype about it. I have to endure constant Cloudflare CAPTCHAs because it's probable that a large fraction of other customers on my ISP have pwned IoT (cameras, doorbells, whizbang startup weather station, etc.) DDoSing and hacking the rest of the world.
PSA: For the love of the sysadmin gods, please don't use desktops as servers. ECC RAM, HA, duty cycle, lights out management, and vendor support are completely different beasts compared to retail gear.
For non-lights-out, host-based remote desktop that can be self-hosted, RustDesk is able to work locally without relaying to any clouds. And using WG (non-TS) for "VPN"/remote network bridging, that's a pretty compelling option. I haven't yet checked if it can work in an air-gapped environment but I think it might work; but if it doesn't, that would be sad.
I also fundamentally disagree on your implication that one should "never" use desktops as servers, it all depends on your needs and what trade-offs make sense for your situation.
I've been doing this for decades for a basic home server (essentially, for Plex, a personal Minecraft server and a couple of other minor things for my home) in combination with a backup strategy. I guess I've been lucky that I've never had data loss, but if it packed up tomorrow taking all data with it, it wouldn't be a big deal for me.
If I had used a full server, it would have been noisier, more expensive and possibly more power hungry. The amount of money I haven't spent at this point is very substantial.
Work when the network config on that particular computer is down/borked.
But I can't find any information on their Web site about who runs the JetKVM company, not even a partial name or handle of anyone, nor even what country they are in. Which seems odd for how much this product needs to be trusted.
Searching elsewhere, other than the company Web site... Crunchbase for JetKVM shows 2 people, who it says are based in Berlin, and who also share a principal company, BuildJet, which Crunchbase says is based in Estonia. The product reportedly ships from Shenzhen. BuildJet apparently is a YC company, but BuildJet's Web site has very similar lack of info identifying anyone or their location, again despite the high level of trust required for this product.
Are corporate customers who are putting these products into positions of serious trust -- into their CI, and remote access to inside their infrastructure -- doing any kind of vetting? When the official Web sites have zero information about who this is, are the customers getting the information some other way, before purchasing and deploying?
If these people are still running the companies, why aren't they or anyone else mentioned on the company Web sites? That would be helpful first step for trust for corporate use. So its absence is odd.
Buildjet (the parent company) looks to be a pretty small company with currently modest revenue[1]. I agree that the absence of people on both webpages is sort of odd. I think it make more sense for their original service (CI workers) than it does for a hardware product.
https://ariregister.rik.ee/eng/company/16075023/Buildjet-O%C...
Homelabbers tend to like rackmount. (I've owned multiple servers with such dedicated remote management/access hardware built in.)
JetKVM seems designed to be more a shadow IT at individual desks solution, for use at companies that don't prohibit and actively police that.
The PiKVM runs wireguard so it's reasonably secure. I assume JetKVM can do the same.
https://web.archive.org/web/20200312000527/http://www.cfcl.c...
>We get occasional inquiries about our name. In case you are wondering, it is a pun on "Can't afford a computer laboratory". (We have plenty of computers, to be sure, but the ideal computer laboratory will always be beyond our reach. :-)
>Inspiration for the name was drawn from Walker A. Tompkins, a family friend and prolific writer (of adventures, history, and westerns). Mr. Tompkins used the name "Canta Forda Rancho" for his home in Santa Barbara, CA.
> targeting hobbyists and small outfits
I'm joking a bit but these are exactly the entities that have fewer capabilities to detect malicious behavior.
Assuming JetKVM is operating in full good faith that doesn't mean they themselves aren't going to be the target. You compromise them and you compromise all their customers. That's true regardless of the company size, but is also the reason for transparency
Putting a BMC or KVM on the Internet is hilariously unwise.
No need worry about dodgy remote desktop software — the attackers will be able to back door the firmware!
(Yes, iLO verifies firmware signatures… but yes they’ve had horrific vulnerabilities, worse than nightmares).
Would have to dump the flash with proper tooling, and load up a clean OS on a blank chip to even begin checking for issues. Mostly, these gadgets are purposely built like garbage for a number of reasons.
If I needed a DIY KVM install for a home-theater, I'd just setup a https://pikvm.org/ install. =)
I'd assume it runs off the 5v standby power when the primary ATX supply is sleeping. =3
Small recycled PCs can certainly work too, and reminds me of the https://guacamole.apache.org/ project. =3
https://jetkvm.com/docs/advanced-usage/developing#developer-...
And the serial console is available over USB UART (SBU)
If it's attempting to be a covert op it's doing either a terrible job or a very advanced one.
Given that very distinctive "JetKVM" shape, I am now 99% sure I've seen this gadget someplace last year, If I recall the Mandarin Chinese name (difficult for me), I will post the hardware URI.
One may be surprised how much hardware includes unsigned firmware OTA updates. And someone will need to audit the stack to check if it has that common problem, and predict if it also has SoM specific Linux kernel requirements.
The Raspberry Pi foundation isn't just hardware, but comes with a proven 10 year OS lifecycle. =3
It might be possible something popped up that looked very similar to the Kickstarter ad. Could also just have been a 4th container product run common with China CM exports. =3
Sipeed nano also launched around the same time, but they were cagey at first with open sourcing the firmware, requiring a certain number of github stars before they'd do that.
That NanoKVM is RISC-V, the JetKVM is ARM Cortex-A7. Unlikely to be a rebrand.
That said the UI looks somewhat similar so Sipeed might have aped the JetKVM software part (which is FOSS)
The JetKVM uses RockChip RV1106G3. =3
Personally I'd never use these on an interned facing network. But they can still be handy for local only.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yHhdTRVvDFU&pp=0gcJCQYKAYcqIYz...
Had a show HN last week that seemed to go under the radar: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45671087
We launched corporate hierarchy research and working on UBO now. From the corporate hierarchy standpoint, it looks like the Delaware entity fully owns the Estonian entity. Auto generated mermaid diagram from the deep research:
graph TD
e1[BuildJet, Inc.]-->|100%, 2022-12-16|e2[Buildjet OÜ]## Summary IKEA US RETAIL LLC is a limited liability company. It is wholly owned by IKEA Holding U.S., Inc., and ultimately controlled by Stichting INGKA Foundation, a Dutch foundation that owns Ingka Group.
## Graph
graph TD
e2[IKEA Property, Inc.]-->e1[IKEA US RETAIL LLC]
e3[IKEA Holding U.S., Inc.]-->e1[IKEA US RETAIL LLC]
e4[Ingka Holding B.V.]-->e3[IKEA Holding U.S., Inc.]
e4[Ingka Holding B.V.]-->e4[Ingka Holding B.V.]
e5[Stichting INGKA Foundation]-->|100%, 1982|e4[Ingka Holding B.V.]
Here's the live mermaid editor version for the Ikea example: https://mermaid.live/edit#pako:eNqNkV9PwjAUxb9KcxPfRrO17E_3Y...
I only occasionally research companies, and it's from an engineering&product perspective, aside from corporate ownership compliance. (For example, I was asked to vet a little-known company as a prospective partner, for building our cloud infrastructure atop theirs. One of the first rapid low-cost, high-value things I could do, besides looking at their docs and trying their demos, was to skim through the history of business news about them.)
We realized the underlying business graph was the bottleneck though, so that's been our focus for some time. With that in place, we're now coming full circle on the risk research standpoint.
On your comment about confidence / liability, we're actually having conversations around that now and getting feedback. First step is exposing all the research and evidence directly to build trust, which is what we're doing now for the new corporate hierarchy system.
In this case, what really gets to me is the basic template website they're using; with image carousel but only one image... and the fact that they appeared to have paid influencers on youtube to shill their product.
It feels rushed, and not in a good way.
On the research, you're absolutely right. It fits that sweet spot where it's just easy / boring / tedious enough to automate with the current generation of LLMs.
> Estonia
Dunno if this is still the case now but Coinbase used to have an IBAN in Estonia (or maybe Latvia, can't recall). The three baltic states became quite the EU tech hub lately.
> The product reportedly ships from Shenzhen
This is not unusual for low-count (<10000) orders and "cut the middleman" when you can't recoup the logistics cost of having a local stock.
Most products come out of Shenzen (or another) anyway, "shipped from" is quite a lousy indicator of anything.
I would appreciate a bit more transparency regarding some provenance bits but hey it's a niche Kickstarter still, not a full-blown scaled-up enterprise.
They've all made doing business remarkably easy - you can get a digital ID and open a bank account without ever being present in the country, and their digital offerings are based on solid crypto and not just centralization.
An incredible example of what modernizing government infrastructure and regulation can do. It's a shame that the cryptobros currently in charge of the US have basically nuked Central Bank Digital Currencies (CBDCs) so that they can continue to grift without supervision.
> Founder Team
> Our founders and team work remotely, scattered across the world, including Germany, China, and New Zealand. We gathered experience from the field of design to software engineering & hardware development. We are the right blend of people, sharing expertise in our team. We're server enthusiasts and thriving to create products that also, literally, work for us. Co-Founders of JetKVM - Adam Shiervani(left), Lian Duan(right)
> Lastly, we are not the only ones, who are dedicated and working full-time on this project. A number of contractors, specializing in various fields are helping us every day, to move forward and unfold the potential of our ideas.
[0] https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jetkvm/jetkvm/descripti...
I don't see anyone in this thread using Aurga. It's not as good as RDP or physically being in front of the machine, but it's good enough.
(N.b. unfortunately the ATX board cannot be ordered independently, so be sure to order the "nanokvm-full" package)
Nothing instils faith in a product like using a gaming chatroom populated by tweens for communication.
I don't think it's a stretch to say people who prefer Discord to forums are the type who sign in with Google or Facebook on all websites that offer it.
Since there's no independent audit of these and no way to prove that these aren't being intercepted, I wouldn't be bragging about voluntarily installing potential infrastructure vulnerabilities.
EDIT: Anything I can think of, China has already built https://wiki.sipeed.com/hardware/en/kvm/NanoKVM_PCIe/introdu...
Amazing
Sure, these entities may not care about YOU. But YOU provide a means of free computing power, internet connection — the means for proxying cyber attacks.
"The means for proxying cyber attacks" are entirely commercialized, just search for residential proxy providers. They sell by the gigabyte and primarily rely on naive users and compromised devices.
Software solutions like Moonlight/Sunshine have been able to do that with near-zero latency for a long time and they are not even the first. Phones have chips capable of capturing 4K 120fps. Why is it so hard for KVM devices?
Generally all these devices are just slapping together a few existing silicon chips. If the chip they need doesn’t exist, no ones really going out of their way to overengineer a different solution for which price to consumer would be prohibitive.
Well yes, your JetKVM no longer has a lease.
Don't ask me how I discovered this one :-)
It's not a thing I use everyday but sooo much nicer than having to unplug and lug my proxmox server up from the meter closet anytime there's an issue.
Overall, I'd recommend them. :)
So disappointing. Ewasted it during Covid. And now... Looks like it's a hot field.
I need to do stop doubting myself. Somehow
That's why solutions like this seem a little bit backward to me.
On top of that, all server/desktop OSes I'm familiar with, provide better remote control options after boot (that respect UAC) - but maybe I'm simply not the target demographic here.
tmyrden•3mo ago
I think they opened sales the same day that GL.iNet announced their new cloud KVM.