Ask HN: How would you set up a child’s first Linux computer?

92•evolve2k•5h ago

As a tech parent I think one of the best things I did for both my son and daughter was for their first computer to help them to build and setup their own Linux computer (It was Ubuntu back then but they’ve both moved themselves to Arch these days).

We went together and bought a second hand desktop (exciting the people selling to us also) and when I got home I pulled out the Ram, HD and CD drive and set them aside; and then together with a screwdriver we “built the computer” over a few days.

In windows when a child goes searching the web for a “movie maker for windows” they are going to be in a world of hurt either finding expensive commercial options or super scammy sites promising the world.

By comparison on Linux if they search the local “app store” they’ll find stacks and stacks of free, useful, open licensed software.

My kids loved the power, freedom and later unexpected community this bought them.

Now my friend wants the same for their daughter who is 8 years old.

I’m planning to do the same and go with her parents and her and buy a second hand desktop together and then put Linux on it.

My question is where would you go from there? What suggestions do you have? What to install? Any mini “curriculums” or ideas?

Would love to hear your ideas and experiences. Linux with free and open software is the goal and focus.

Comments

theothertimcook•5h ago

Endless OS on a ex corporate box/laptop could be a good option.

https://distrowatch.com/table-mobile.php?distribution=endles...

al_borland•5h ago

I got my nephews a raspberry pi for their first computer. I tried gifting an old laptop, but that was rejected my the parents as “too much”, so I went the Pi route… first with a Kano Kit (which I think is no defunct) and later with a Pi 400.

The Kano was nice, because it was built for kids and had some guided stuff to help get them into it with various software and hardware to play around with.

With the Pi 400 it was stock Raspbian. The kid wasn’t sure where to begin. While it came with a book geared toward kids, I don’t know that he read it. I was trying to find a way to show him around to stuff he might think is fun, without it seeming boring over overwhelming, but I didn’t feel it went that well. I was also living 6 hours away at the time, so there weren’t regular visits for questions or to help things along, and the parents didn’t know anything about Linux.

Ultimately, I don’t think it inspired them as much as I was hoping. All they actually wanted was something to play Minecraft on, and the Pi edition was a very compromised experience for Minecraft. The Kano did have a mode to let people use Scratch type programming to automate aspects of building, which I thought was really cool, but it didn’t totally seem to click… though I did see some limited use after a couple years.

I think not having someone in the house who can guide and field questions really hindered the ability for them to really thrive on Linux. It would probably be worth including a series of lessons to ramp up their skills and knowledge. Doing something like that was difficult for me due to the distance and also not so much parental support on the idea of kids on computers. I was swimming against the current a little with those gifts, because I thought it was important they get access to the main tool they are likely to use throughout their life.

d3Xt3r•4h ago

I would recommend installing Scratch[1] - it's a programming language designed for kids from 8yrs old onwards. I would recommend pairing it with a Raspberry Pi, as you can do fun real-world physical stuff with using Scratch, and I think kids can find that very interesting. Eg, start with a simple program to turn LED lights on and off, programming buttons, playing sounds etc. Eventually this could lead to making simple games or other programs. Regardless, would highly recommend getting a Raspberry Pi as its just so much fun using it to interact with the physical world and getting to learn actual electronics.

[1] https://scratch.mit.edu/parents/

jerkstate•3h ago

seconded, Scratch is a wonderful learning environment. I would pair it with ChatGPT and supervision, LLMs will really help flesh out ideas and figure out how to implement them for kids who won't know how to start, and since you can't just copy-paste into Scratch, the kid will have to actually do the work of dragging the blocks around. We did some amazing stuff with Scratch - visualizing algebra and trig functions by drawing them as a graphing calculator would, we even made a binary tree based morse code decoder, a rocket simulator (using real-ish rocket equation physics, air resistance, etc). Now we have mostly moved onto Desmos (graphing calculator) and Python.

jedimastert•1h ago

I don't want to police someone else's parenting, but even with supervision I would be deeply cautious against exposing kids to LLMs from a developmental standpoint. Even adults have a hard time not anthropomorphizing LLMs, a kid under a certain again would essentially be unable to not view an LLM as a person, which could have some SERIOUS ramifications down the line.

nrjames•3h ago

As a parent with two kids that used Scratch during 2020 or so… be cautious. The web community was an unregulated social network with follows, likes, comments, and a wide age range (apparently) of people interacting. Around that time, there was a lot of inappropriate content, some bullying, sketches about self-harm, sex, etc. Perhaps they’ve fixed the issue. If not, I would try to install it locally and keep them away from the official website.

Incidentally, I later came to believe that the visual coding impeded their ability to learn text-based coding. That was just my experience and I don’t have formal research to back it up, but I still wonder about it.

tracnar•2h ago

There's Hedy if you want to try a text based programming language for kids: https://www.hedy.org/

QuaternionsBhop•2h ago

> visual coding impeded their ability to learn text-based coding

As a former child, my opinion is the opposite. I learned visual programming with Lego Mindstorms NXT in ~2008, and later developed an interest in text programming on Roblox in ~2012. It's my belief that my fluency with concepts like control flow and values output from one part of the program serving as inputs for another part of the program were largely transferable to text-based programming. Learning a first programming language is 30% learning syntax, and 70% learning programming.

bbbhltz•4h ago

We were gifted our old work laptops. My partner and I work for the same place. She gave hers to the mother in law after I wiped Windows and put Linux on it.

I gave mine to my son. I figured that my son might want to use the touch screen I went with Gnome because it seemed a little more touch friendly. I told myself it doesn't matter because he is 8 and I can always reinstall.

I chose Debian (Stable) so I wouldn't have to deal with keeping it updated, put a root password to prevent them from going crazy with installing stuff.

I will have to put Scratch on it someday, for the moment he cares about the following:

- the LEGO website to look at instructions - the music player to listen to soundtracks from his favourite games - MyPaint for making drawings

He is starting to figure out the idea of folders, deleting things, undo, etc., but hasn't asked for any other software or even games yet.

I am a professor and would like for my son to learn about word processors, spreadsheets, programming, etc.. If he ever asks, I will give him the root password and let him browse the repos. Right now, I'm just happy to see him enjoy it without doing what lots of his friends do: sit in front of YouTube all afternoon.

ta12653421•4h ago

how do you manage parentcontrol on YT?

isoprophlex•3h ago

You ban it. It's mental cancer, to both adults and children. And I'm not even being hyperbolic.

Even the kid-safe stuff is so incredibly viral and empty, it kills all creativity and volition.

evolve2k•3h ago

I’d agree with deferring any and all social media as long as you can get away with.

On the YT front a small thing that helps is an extension that removes all recommendations. So YouTube opens to a blank screen with only search and after watching a video there’s no now shady this. So it becomes much more functional to their interests.

“How to _____” “Explain how ____ works.”

Helps reduce the addictive parts and keep the “it’s a tool” parts in focus.

Freak_NL•2h ago

Yeah, Youtube for my six year old son is restricted to us looking up stuff for him to watch. Want to know how pencils are made? We'll look up a good video. Recently, that's not often either.

CocoMelon and its ilk on Youtube are abhorrent. It's digital crack tailored to absorb every little bit of attention. Avoid that shit.

zarify•4h ago

I recently installed Ubuntu on a little Geekom mini PC for my 6 and 8 year olds to share. So far my 6 yo isn’t too into it, but her older sister mostly uses it for the games I’ve put onto it through Epic and Steam and programming using MakeCode, mostly for Arcade (https://arcade.makecode.com) (I have a couple of micro:bit-based handheld shields) and more recently getting into the awesomely simple networking that the micro:bit provides (https://makecode.microbit.org).

Since the micro:bit requires some file management for programming them, that’s been a good entry point to the file system.

ta12653421•4h ago

Im also interested in this, so happy to hear any experience!

In my situation i need some type of "remote admin capability", since we are separated :-(

drlobster•4h ago

I'd give them a stack of Slackware floppies and half the manual.

nickserv•4h ago

Pretty sure that's against the Geneva convention.

GTP•4h ago

This comment made my day :D

iso1631•4h ago

If that was in the 1990s that would be impressive

If that was in the 2020s...

austin-cheney•4h ago

I would put your entire house behind a custom DNS relay you control, like a PiHole. Use that to eliminate access to advertisements, pornography, some walware, and social media.

I would also consider use of Gentoo as your Linux distribution to force learning about building packages and command line. I would avoid Arch as that might be too much of a challenge.

For me the goal would be forcing them to learn how this stuff works. I would emphasize scripting in the shell like bash scripts, JavaScript via node, Python, and possibly even Perl. This will take a lot of guidance to get this started because they will need some real world use cases about why they immediately benefit.

Once you get the OS finally set up create an ISO of it and put it on both a thumb drive and home file server. Give the kiddo root access to their own computer and let them really break stuff because you can restore from backup

Edit:

Immediately downvoted. This comment apparently caused a nerd god to shed a tear.

subscribed•4h ago

Learning to build packages? Gentoo? PERL?

As a first platform for a preteen?

austin-cheney•2h ago

Its how I started learning this stuff as a preteen before Linux as a thing. If learning is too hardcore just get them an iphone.

GTP•4h ago

Starting hardcore carries the risk of giving them a bad firs impression that can keep them from willing to learn thise things in the future.

austin-cheney•2h ago

Its how I learned this stuff back in the days of DOS.

So then pretend its easy and get them an iphone.

I suspect the goal is you, as a parent, want to feel good to yourself that you are doing something positive for a child. If that's all this is really about then put them in a corner with some educational videos and give yourself a high-five.

ikamm•2h ago

OP this is who you are setting up your children to be like

GTP•1h ago

> Its how I learned this stuff back in the days of DOS.

In the days of DOS there was no (widespread) alternative.

You first need to capture their interest, otherwise they will see the shiny GUIs other people are using and wonder why they have to write long hard-to-remember commands instead of double-clicking on an icon.

austin-cheney•1h ago

Yep, that's what I thought. Just get them an iphone and be done with it.

GTP•1h ago

You seem to think that the world is either black or white, but reality is more nuanced than that. Plus, the fact that you learned a certain thing in a certain way doesn't mean that it is the best way for everyone else to learn that thing.

austin-cheney•52m ago

It is. You are either willing to spend time with your child or you aren't.

GTP•44m ago

Now I think you're trolling, because at no point this discussion was about the will of spenting time with your children or lack thereof.

pessimizer•4m ago

You seem to think that you can only spend 24 hours a day with your child or zero.

iso1631•4h ago

> I would put your entire house behind a custom DNS relay you control

Advertising companies are pushing DoH to remove control from you and give them the control, so be aware of that

> I would emphasize scripting in the shell like bash scripts

What would they want to script? What will they achieve? Why would they be interested in this?

edde746•4h ago

I think the benefits of DoH (& ECH) outweigh the negatives, especially when it comes to censorship resistance.

ogig•3h ago

>Advertising companies are pushing DoH to remove control from you and give them the control, so be aware of that

True. My first naive attempt at content filtering for my kids was to use a family friendly DNS for the whole network. That's when I learned about chrome's secure DNS option, witch effectively bypasses my intended settings. I guess endpoint control is the only effective option. A mandatory http proxy could be used to filter by hostname too. None of them easy, and I'm supposed to be an expert. Normal people has little chance of implementing technical parental controls.

austin-cheney•48m ago

> What would they want to script? What will they achieve? Why would they be interested in this?

That's where you, the parent, are required to spend with the child to help them answer those same questions. The way to answer it is what problems do you have that you wish were solved... then show the kid that.

nickserv•4h ago

This would not work for mine, they just wouldn't use it under those conditions. I would rather show them a good time initially and increase complexity if they take a liking to learning about computers. My eldest is much more artistic than technical and has little interest in programming and tech in general. But he took to Krita on Linux with enthusiasm.

BTW didn't downvote you.

austin-cheney•2h ago

My wife, who is clearly not a child, thought all the same things.

Her computer is old and we are no a budget... So now she is running Linux kicking and screaming. In all fairness there was no learning curve at all because she hardly knew how to use Windows in the first place. I showed her how to install applications from the command line and configure her games to run native or with Wine. She is happy camper, especially since her favorite games are running faster than on Windows.

What I really suspect is that people want their children to just be smart... on their own. If only there were some tools you could buy that would just do it for you.

The reality is children smart enough, at any age, to really do anything on a computer beyond gaming, social media, or ReactJS can learn anything, but it will take direct involvement from a parent to coach them through it. This is exactly the same if the kid is 8 or 18. There is no magic Linux set up that will just do it automagically.

montroser•3h ago

Thanks for this perspective. For many kids this might be too much of a learning curve -- but for some, it might be right on.

I learned a TON in the 80s as a kid by rummaging around with a retired Kaypro II running CP/M, breaking stuff by accident and fixing, and trying to hack the few games it had...

mystifyingpoi•3h ago

> For me the goal would be forcing them to learn how this stuff works

Ignoring the hilarity of this comment, that's not really how kids learn.

- "Dad, I'd like to draw a house on this screen"

- "Ok kiddo, first we have to download stage1 tarball from FTP mirror I know the name of without looking it up"

johnisgood•3h ago

I was going to say I'd help them install Gentoo or Arch. I learned a lot myself with some help of a friend through SSH when installing and using Gentoo.

Do not pre-install, but make them part of the installation process. :P

sen•4h ago

My kids (pre-teen) have Pi400s. It lets them play around with basic graphics apps, write stories, write and print letters to family, play simple games without the kid-hostile world of modern “mainstream” gaming, watch movies from the NAS, etc.

More than enough to keep them entertained and teach them the basics.

shantara•4h ago

Fedora Atomic, maybe? I would have probably found it a bit too restrictive as a teen, but I think it’s a good choice for preventing a younger child from accidentally breaking the system, while still providing enough ability to experiment and learn stuff using distrobox

evgpbfhnr•4h ago

Breaking the system is the point! Let them break stuff, you learn when you have to fix it afterwards.

xrd•4h ago

They probably will want to play games. It's a slippery slope. But if you go that route:

Steam works amazingly well. And you can set up family controls.

Roblox works great using "Sober" I don't recommend letting them play Roblox but I'm stuck with it.

Minecraft and Curseforge work well, too.

Time Keeper Next is a great time limiting control system. If you have a little awareness of docker you can run it in a container and even access it on your phone through an admin gui. If you need help on that get my email from my profile and I'll happily share my details.

My kids 8,10,12 know how to use the command line. I'm really proud of them.

assimpleaspossi•3h ago

This is how my co-worker's son turned from a happy, energetic 8-year old into a 400 pound 20-something who does nothing but play games as soon as he comes home from work. It consumes his whole life.

rpdillon•2h ago

Steam? I'm not sure what you're referring to by "this". All they're recommending is a standard setup that millions of people have. If your co-worker's son turned into a 400 pound 20 something, that sounds like a separate set of problems, not based on Steam or using Linux.

xrd•1h ago

Agreed. I think Linux is, 800% less predatory (I love Trump math) than Microsoft Windows. Just booting it up clean is inviting a salesperson shilling all kinds of junk to your kids.

xrd•1h ago

I don't disagree at all. It's such a complicated problem, unless you have all the kids in your kid's circle prohibited from gaming the peer pressure is intense. I am starting to come to the conclusion that you can't really limit them (my kids were getting an hour on weekdays and two on weekends) but then my son especially fiends the rest of the weekend for screens and it is constant conflict. I'm at wits end. But they exploit any gaps in parent alignment and then you have predatory gaming companies where PM bonuses are tied to time in game. It's unhealthy for kids and families.

fullstop•1h ago

That's a problem with the kid, not the games.

croisillon•4h ago

Windows Movie Maker used to be such a gem, pity it has been discontinued! Nowadays I use Openshot on Windows

johnisgood•3h ago

OpenShot is available for Linux, too, FWIW.

nickserv•4h ago

I went with LDE Neon for both my kids. It's also what I use, I really like the KDE ecosystem, very polished experience overall.

Also it's similar enough to Windows that they don't feel completely out of touch on the school computers.

Killer app is Krita for the older one, even got him a cheap Wacom later on.

Otherwise school work, native Linux games, and YouTube. That last one with the younger one I have to keep an eye on. Honestly thinking about blocking access, we'll see.

Both like gaming, so I set up wine for them on my machine with separate accounts. Learning about email, downloads, files and folders by installing Skyrim mods (using kid friendly settings on Nexus), also an exercise in managing frustration...

Anyway everyone will be different, just set up something they'll enjoy. Already for a kid to know Linux exists is a head start.

byronic•3h ago

Seconding “YouTube ban.” I do it now at the network level. If at some point they alter parental controls to allow list channels I would consider adding it back, but the sheer quantity put forth onto the platform makes it impossible for any parent to moderate (or moderate effectively).

At least with streaming a TV show or movie there are defined breaks instead of an endless array of kid dopamine

nickserv•3h ago

Yes, that's what I'm thinking of doing, blocking directly on the router.

It was somewhat manageable before with proper education (teaching them what to avoid, time limiting), but now with shorts and AI it's becoming a cesspool.

The main reason I allow it is to show them the dangers of it, of knowing to be careful. Otherwise I feel like as soon as they get access, they'll be completely unprepared... and of course as they get older they will definitely get access.

kreyenborgi•2h ago

Do you block it with openwrt? Any good packages?

nurettin•4h ago

Just give them a raspberry pi and show them gcompris and luanti.

Freak_NL•2h ago

My six year old had some good fun exploring GCompris, but it feels like it desperately needs an overhaul and some cleaning up.

microtonal•4h ago

My kids loved the power, freedom and later unexpected community this bought them.

I think it is also important to realize/point out that we do a lot of projecting and our child may have very different interests. Not saying that applies to you evolve2k, just wanted to make the general point.

I set up a Linux machine with our daughter and while it was initially ok, she did not have much interest in the power/freedom and it only became a nuisance for her. Her school/friends use PowerPoint - there is a lot of friction trying work with them in LibreOffice. She wanted to do DTP-like things several times and the Linux options are not exactly... user-friendly. Etc.

In the end we got her a Mac Mini. She can still open a terminal, use Homebrew, etc. if she ever develops an interest. Heck, she can use most free software. However, she can also do the stuff she is currently interested in much more easily. E.g., she uses Swift Publisher, which is a very simple/user-friendly DTP program, can collaborate on PowerPoint presentations when needed, etc.

First and foremost listen to what your child is interested in.

evolve2k•3h ago

Very fair. Yes you can’t force them but I still think there is value in attempting to start the Linux way which you very much did.

Sounds like you’re doing a great job and tuning in to the needs and interests of your child. Love it!

rpdillon•2h ago

> she did not have much interest in the power/freedom

The reason I started with Linux with my kids is so they were aware that that power and freedom exists. Kids that grow up in a mobile ecosystem (and increasingly both the Microsoft and Apple ecosystems) are fundamentally disempowered, just as the adults that use that ecosystem are. The goal of having my kids use Linux was to make them understand that they did have agency.

Fifteen years on, I have to say it was an excellent decision. They're light years ahead of their peers in terms of their ability to use computers.

eptcyka•2h ago

When forced to use Linux at an early age, I was given the agency to be made fun of and miss out on social things, i.e. discussing currently relevant games. It got me the jobs and knowledge eventually too, but I really did not learn much from blindly running ./configure and make and make install. I shudder to think exactly how my wine installation worked. There are significant downsides to using Linux and the freedom it brings needs lots of context to appreciate. If you don’t provide the context, Linux is not empowering- it is just a windows that works less.

rpdillon•2h ago

> discussing currently relevant games

We shun most of this as faddish and low quality. Fortnite and Battlefield are replaced with OpenMW and Veloran.

If you're doing things blindly in Linux, there's no point. The value is in understanding and leveraging that understanding to achieve your goals.

In many ways, this isn't about Linux at all. It's about parenting.

eptcyka•1h ago

At the time it was a GTA title. Regardless, the Linux alternatives are useless, there is no alternative to the socially agreed upon phenomena, the child can either participate pr they cannot. The exclusion is not necessarily a bad thing, but you end up having the child swim upstream a bit.

em-bee•1h ago

that's fair. unfortunately windows has changed so much since that time that the downsides of allowing kids to use it are much worse now than they were even 10 years ago.

scott_w•1h ago

> If you're doing things blindly in Linux, there's no point. The value is in understanding and leveraging that understanding to achieve your goals.

I don’t know about that. Just to be upfront: I’m not advocating putting your kids through this because I think they have to have that motivation for themselves to really benefit.

However, I basically did blindly follow guides to try and get things working without fully understanding what I was doing. Over time, things stick and I’m able to look under the surface and get a better understanding and better solve the problem I’m facing.

Hell, any “Learn X Language” book works like this! There’s always boilerplate that you need to kinda skip over for a while just so you can get a running program. Hell, I’m leaning Rust and I’m using #[] “decorators” and I couldn’t tell you exactly what they’re doing!

himeexcelanta•1h ago

I’m sure you also give out raisins and sugar free mints at Halloween too.

haunter•29m ago

>We shun most of this as faddish and low quality. Fortnite and Battlefield are replaced with OpenMW and Veloran.

My parents didn't let me read Song of Ice and Fire Harry Potter (and do a lot of other contemporary culture things) when I was younger because they said they are pop culture fad. Only haute culture literature in this household! I've had a good childhood but I also missed out on a lot of good things because parenting decisions like this.

And Fortnite is actually an awesome game, it's the mugen we were all dreaming for.

miningape•1h ago

> If you don’t provide the context, Linux is not empowering- it is just a windows that works less

Couldn't agree more - Linux can be a great way to get into computing. But only if done in the right way. Arguably for an older kid / teenager (boys usually) it's important to have access to the same games your friends are playing, otherwise you start to become naturally excluded from lunch table talk.

Of course it still depends if the kid is a social butterfly etc., but parents should understand this.

doubled112•53m ago

Agreed. My kids (8 and 11) both have Linux on desktops in the living room. They work really well for what they want now, but someday we might have to make different choices.

em-bee•1h ago

the same happens with children not getting mobile phones, or not wearing the same brand expensive clothes that others can afford.

sorry, but what you experienced is comparable to peer pressure, and as a parent, giving in to that is the wrong approach. you will not agree because you suffered as a result and i am sorry you had to go through that. my oldest is just getting into the age where these things start to matter, but regardless, my kids won't get phones and or anything besides linux for their own sake.

fortunately times are changing and working in our favor. windows 11 is practically unusable already, inpart because it refuses to run on anything but the most recent computers, and in part because it requires an online account, not to mention all the advertising that i refuse to subject my kids to. windows games run on linux better than ever thanks to steam, and my kids school uses linux too for the most part. so admittedly, this will be easier for my kids than it was for you.

rpdillon•1h ago

That's a good point. My oldest has root on his own System76 laptop, and he's quite accomplished at administering it. But he is able to play and beat Elden Ring in Dark Souls, which would not have been an option five years ago in terms of compatibility.

fullstop•1h ago

My kids were exposed to many operating systems at a young age, and you couldn't be more right regarding the mobile ecosystem. There's a lot of highschool aged kids who don't understand directories on a file system. They're used to tapping "open" and being presented with a list of files sandboxed in that environment.

xnyan•1h ago

The situation you describing is the norm for everyone, including you, for most subjects. Expertise gives you greater understanding and allows for more meaningful engagement with the subject, but most people are experts very few things.

When I "dance" (sway to the beat) at a wedding, I am doing the equivalent of tapping open on the file, whereas my parter with their lifetime of dance experience can move with a level of skill that is much more meaningful and nuanced. My best friend is a chef, his daughter has a vasty deeper awareness of flavor and technique vs most kids (including mine) who are just consuming without much thought. The same goes for my colleague who is also a musician and DJ - their kids can hear a song and instantly understand all the layers of production and instrumentation, whereas most children and adults are just nodding along to the beat.

If I consider most of the things I do in my life, I am interacting with them at very shallow and superficial level versus an expert, and I would assume the same is true for you.

fullstop•34m ago

I totally agree about expertise in a given domain. With that being said, I would consider navigating a directory tree below the level of swaying to the beat.

I'm not expecting them to get into the nitty gritty about page alignment and DMA transfers. A directory tree is more on level with toe tapping.

supriyo-biswas•1h ago

When I was a teenager, I tried to dabble in Linux but the hardware support was abysmal and I couldn't use it, despite my strong intention to permanently switch to Linux.

These days the hardware support is usually fine and my employer requires me to use Linux on the desktop, but still, if I was a teenager I'd still be interested in games, a functional office suite, etc.

For my Linux hobby at the time, I ended up doing was installing MinGW on Windows XP and using Linux VMs on Windows, albeit I had an interest in that kind of stuff.

I don't think forcing people to daily drive Linux for the usual stuff makes much sense unless they want it and have an interest in low level configuration.

hastamelo•29m ago

for many kids TikTok is power, not a terminal

Aurornis•1h ago

> there is a lot of friction trying work with them in LibreOffice

LibreOffice is always a sticking point, in my experience. I some times get roasted for saying it, but if you want people to have a good experience with Linux, point them toward something online like Google Docs. Yeah it’s not consistent with the ideological purity that some people want, but in my experience non-technical people do much better on Linux when they don’t have to deal with LibreOffice. I won’t even speculate why, it’s just not a good fit for non-technical Linux newcomers.

charlie-83•49m ago

Out of interest, what's your issue with LibreOffice? The only issue I have with it is when you need to open documents made in MSOffice. Otherwise, it does everything MSOffice does and faster with less cloud/AI crap. Reminds me of MSOffice during XP era when it just worked.

Aurornis•28m ago

> what's your issue with LibreOffice?

I'm sharing observations about seeing other people, including casual computer users, forced into using LibreOffice. It becomes the software experience they hate the most. They associate Linux with LibreOffice and want it all gone so they can go back to getting work done on mac or Windows like everyone else they know.

Your comment is a good example of the disconnect between average computer users and the LibreOffice fans:

> The only issue I have with it is when you need to open documents made in MSOffice. Otherwise, it does everything MSOffice does and faster with less cloud/AI crap. Reminds me of MSOffice during XP era

Collaborating with other MS Office users is a key part of many people's jobs. Having poor MS Office compatibility isn't just a footnote, it's a showstopper issue that will make these people's jobs harder every single day. Making people's job harder and take more time is a great way to make them hate something.

As for not having cloud features and having an old style XP era interface: These are also points that are only positive for a specific type of computer user wants computing to return the earlier, simpler era of computing they fondly remember. For everyone else, that "cloud crap" is a helpful feature for getting their job done and that XP era interface makes it feel like they're stuck using outdated software. I understand you don't use or like the new features, but average people who use this software in their jobs might actually benefit from the new features and new interface.

rorylawless•26m ago

The average person in the real world is more likely to encounter documents made in Office, that would be a major barrier to adoption.

andrewflnr•23m ago

I find it to be just a little bit irritatingly flaky in the UI. Weird glitches, slow sometines for no obvious reason. I don't do anything complicated with it; I can easily believe there are bugs lurking in lesser-used control paths.

sssilver•1h ago

> First and foremost listen to what your child is interested in

A child can only ever have interest in things he or she has been exposed to. A good environment will expose them to many different things, expanding their menu of interest options.

haunter•4h ago

An immutable distro, probably Fedora Kinoite https://www.fedoraproject.org/atomic-desktops/kinoite/

>In windows when a child goes searching the web for a “movie maker for windows” they are going to be in a world of hurt either finding expensive commercial options or super scammy sites promising the world.

It's funny that you use that example because the state of video editors on Windows have never been better from industry standard free options (DaVinci Resolve) to FOSS options (KDEnlive, Openshot, Shotcut, Avidemux etc).

What you describe is a Google / web / browser problem not an OS one

evolve2k•3h ago

Ah yes sorry the video software was a lazy example but I think you get my point. I did see them find confidence in having such a deep library of free software to poke at and around with.

Insert slightly more niche need that a kid might have ;)

05•1h ago

There’s a Linux version of Resolve that works fine as long as you have NVidia and don’t mind transcoding m4a audio tracks to PCM (some codec licensing issues I think)

GTP•4h ago

The second hand desktop idea is good. But, if her parents are a bit on the nerd side as well, think how much fun they could have together with a Raspberry pi! It could be the evolution of playing Lego together.

jamesbelchamber•3h ago

Get them to install WordPress on a different second-hand computer. Other things exist to host but WordPress has a lot of resources out there, and going from bare metal to WordPress introduces a lot of staples of Linux systems administration while still being fairly easy to do.

FWIW this is what I recommend to adults wanting to get into the industry as well, I would just usually direct them from there towards automation, containerisation etc. For kids I would point out that they could host other things instead of WordPress, or even write their own..

constantcrying•3h ago

>As a tech parent I think one of the best things I did for both my son and daughter was for their first computer to help them to build and setup their own Linux computer (It was Ubuntu back then but they’ve both moved themselves to Arch these days).

Of the important things my father, who definitely is a "tech parent", did for me none of them have anything to do with him teaching me some piece of technology.

To be very frank, if the best thing you have done for your children is getting them to use Linux you are a total failure as a parent. To be fair to you, I do not believe you at all when you say this.

>Now my friend wants the same for their daughter who is 8 years old.

One of the actually most valuable thing my father did for me, definitely in terms of education outcome and career. Was getting me interested and spending time with me and explaining me things. The particulars do not matter, I can not remember them. It is totally irrelevant whether what Linux distro you use or what you teach them. What matters is that the parent is there, explains and encourages.

>Linux with free and open software is the goal and focus.

This is about an 8 year old.

rpdillon•2h ago

> To be very frank, if the best thing you have done for your children is getting them to use Linux you are a total failure as a parent.

Where are you getting this from?

miningape•3h ago

> Now my friend wants the same for their daughter who is 8 years old.

Be careful - even the most obvious things (to us) won't be to a small child. They'll need a bit of a guiding hand and/or someone to ask questions to. Linux isn't obvious and I wouldn't be too surprised if they run into hard edges at some point (sound driver stops working), without someone to actually go to for help the computer just becomes a brick.

- Someone who installed Linux on his beat-up laptop when he was 12 (*), and faced endless frustration with it. (My parents confiscated the laptop because I started hitting it lmao - later got a Windows desktop that "just worked")

* - I don't remember if it stopped being able to run windows (hardware too weak) or, if the windows partition had corrupted itself and I couldn't afford a new copy of windows.

evolve2k•3h ago

Oh all good points. Sorry to hear of your personal frustrations. Yeah agree, I think learning computing is actual best done in a little community or even club. You know a few parents who care or after school gathering in the computer room or library space.

A friend had a cool idea of asking their friends to be their child’s mentor in certain areas; “I’d like my child to learn music taste from you, would u take them under ur wing for this?” Then the child could call that “aunty/uncle” for advice; same for the tech mentor.

Maybe also Linux has continued to get easier and more reliable over the years but yes very valid point; ongoing care and support make all the difference like many things.

miningape•2h ago

Yeah that'd be a really good idea, and don't get me wrong - I still think Linux is a really nice idea, and will really give the kid an advantage. You just don't want to have the opposite effect by having the kid associate the computer with pain hahaha

> also Linux has continued to get easier and more reliable

100% especially if you get some very common hardware it's arguably more reliable than windows nowadays lol

pembrook•3h ago

I’d start by not setting them up a Linux computer.

In both school and work it’s overwhelmingly likely they will either be asked to do things in MacOS or Windows only. Make sure they’re proficient there first.

Linux as a personal OS, regardless of how passionate you are about it, is still a hobbyist platform. If your child becomes super into computers, then you can help them dive deeper down the rabbit hole.

But I wouldn’t drop them at the bottom of the rabbit hole prematurely. Just because your kid liked listening to an AC/DC song doesn’t mean they will want to dive immediately into the world of Brutal Deathcore.

mystifyingpoi•3h ago

> is still a hobbyist platform

Even if you consider this to be true (I don't), then... so what? They can just learn that there are other operating systems with different icons and different clock in the bottom right corner. They are kids man, they will learn fast. They won't unlearn Windows by using a Linux computer once in a while.

Freak_NL•2h ago

Besides, they would still need to choose between Apple and Microsoft. I'd rather teach my kid the essentials of using a computer (how to find information, how to create documents, how to use tools like Inkscape or Krita). Those skills translate to any desktop environment, and most of those tools do too. Something like Debian or Ubuntu is just great for that, and comes with the benefit of being free. A tool like Inkscape (or its FOSS successor) is going to be available in twenty years time. How many proprietary apps didn't end up as cloud-only subscription-based services?

A lot of software engineers use Linux professionally of course (I do), so even that argument for choosing Windows or MacOS isn't very strong.

stOneskull•3h ago

antiX would be interesting, getting them used to config files..

maybe a USB stick with a few distros on it, experimenting with installing them, including dual-booting.. a mix of distros spanning debian/redhat types, and kde/gnome types.. maybe a couple of live distros on their own USB stick.. having a virtual machine in the main install and learning about installing into them..

scratch and python..

ulfbert_inc•3h ago

>How would u setup a child's first Linux computer?

preloaded with tons of stuff my kid might find cool (depends on his or her interests which nobody knows better than I do), and with completely disabled internet access if kid will be using it without my supervision.

dsr_•3h ago

These days, I would start with ZFSBootMenu and Debian Stable.

Why ZFS? So that backups are easy, snapshots are cheap, and when the inevitable happens, it takes a few minutes to reboot and roll back.

Why Debian Stable? Because it will continue to work and get security updates for years, without changing out from underneath them without notice.

I would also recommend that any computer for an 8 year old be placed in the living room or a similar easy-to-watch-over place. Kids need guidance; if they didn't, they wouldn't be kids.

Adblocking, obviously. Everyone needs that.

evolve2k•3h ago

Agree with having the computer very visible in public space like living room. For us this was an additional reason to get a desktop as the first computer, it’s staying put; no sneaky use out of sight as it’s stuck where it is. Laptops can come as they mature.

dismalpedigree•3h ago

I can’t support Linux as the first computer enough. Both of my boys got an Ubuntu desktop for their 8th birthday. I showed them some basics. They were motivated to figure it out. They learned how things work along the way. Also no scammy popups or notifications causing confusion or them granting access “just click yes and it goes away”.

Ununtu (non root) and timekeeper plus. I work with them when they want to install something or do updates.

They have steam, minecraft, OpenRA for games and are happy.

They create music, program arduinos, edit videos they make with friends.

reify•3h ago

I did this two years ago for a 10 year old.

I went with Linux Mint XCFE

The issue for all parents is surely online safety, especially so for our youngest.

I managed to prevent the 10 year old acccessing porn and other non child friendly sites.

change the browser to the Mullvad Browser or and librewolf

---------------------

make sure you change the DNS in network manager and the the browser.

https://mullvad.net/en/help/dns-over-https-and-dns-over-tls

I used these:

  family blocks: Ads, Trackers, Malware, Adult, Gambling
  all blocks: Ads, Trackers, Malware, Adult, Gambling, Social media

  family.dns.mulvad.net
  all.dns.mullvad.net

you really dont want an 8 year old on, facebook, X, reddit or any of the other trash sites

----------------------- search engines:

Qwant provides a safe Junior search.

https://www.qwantjunior.com/

-----------------------

It takes time to set up.

once it is set up, become a kid and search for porn, gambling etc, to see if you as an adult can find those sites. if you do, block them

to block sites just add lines like these to ublock/my filters section.

If a child does click on them they are blocked and do not open. This also works if the child opens a link from a search engine. This way also removes the proceed button that allows you to bypass the restriction.

  facebook.com##^html
  youtube.com##^html
  threads.com##^html
  instagram.com##^html
  tiktok.com##^html
  pinterest.com##^html
  twitter.com##^html
  google.com##^html
  bing.com##^html
  reddit.com##^html
  pornhub.com##^html

etc etc

for fun; set up a few aliases, so they can update from the terminal.

This is great for kids, typing update into the terminal and watching it update && upgrade

pogue•3h ago

You might look at ZorinOS or Linux Mint. Mint is very easy to use, I was able to get my elderly mother to use it. It has a software store and built in automatic backups.

Zorin has some built in features to support Windows software pretty easily I understand, but I'm not sure if that's through wine or a VM or what.

You can test them out in your browser thru the website below and see if it fits what you're looking for.

https://distrosea.com/

lorenzohess•2h ago

Check out Sugar Labs and SugarOS for a basic experience

DeathArrow•2h ago

I won't give my kids a Linux PC. It will be either Windows or macOS, something that just works.

roscas•2h ago

Hi Nadella, you know that Linux works. While I can't say much about macOS, we know very well how Windows works and how it fails every day. But the point here is that Linux works and better than those two, that someone calls an 'OS' but while macOS is based on FreeBSD, Windows by itself it a mess if a OS. The point here is just to register that if you give someone a Windows and then they learn about Linux, they change. If you start with Linux, you will never accept Windwos because of so many reasons. And Nadella, we both know how the internet works, the internet is Linux.

bobsmooth•1h ago

This is why I'm giving my kids a windows machine, to keep them away from people like you.

kjellsbells•2h ago

There are both practical and philosophical aspects to this. Practically, you might want a somewhat locked down solution with the root account locked and the ability to wipe and reinstall remotely. Are you and your friend up for that? If kiddo barfs the system (they're kids, they will, and it's ok!) your friend is gonna need to be up and running quick. PXE boot, kickstart, recovery USB stick, etc.

Before investing time you might also get a several distros on live USB sticks, boot each one up with the kid and parent, and see which one they like best before you install it. Make the kid part of the process.

Depending on the age of the child, make the computer discoverable. The full app store might be too much for younger children (mummy what's a flatpak?) But you might preload a "basic" and an "intermediate" app, eg Minecraft and scratch and then a (simple!!) Python IDE. And put them in discoverable, kid friendly places on the start menu.

Games. Lots of games. Both for their fun value and for teaching the motor skills of mouse and keyboard. Curiosity apps like Google earth.

For older kids, compatibility with their friends is important so make sure that things like LibreOffice, chat etc Just Work. No 13 year old wants to be the Odd Kid with the Bizarro Parent Computer. You can involve them in thinking about what it means to have choice in computing and to not just be a consumer, but they're still kids facing natural social pressures.

I could go on all day. One last point. After the thing is all set up and has been running for a few weeks, check in with the child and parent. What do they like? What do they not? And fix those issues.

zahlman•1h ago

> The full app store might be too much for younger children (mummy what's a flatpak?)

More to the point, they won't know what to look for, or might decide on something inappropriate (or even just unexpectedly hard to use).

> eg Minecraft and scratch and then a (simple!!) Python IDE.

If the kid is interested in and ready for creating a program by actually typing in text, a plain text editor (that can be Xed or Kate or whatever) plus the command line will probably serve better. The simplest functional IDE is really the built-in IDLE, and it's IMX not pleasant to use by comparison. The built-in command-line REPL, on the other hand, improved substantially in 3.13.

em-bee•54m ago

mu editor looks pretty good for kids to learn python. unfortunately it is no longer supported.

thonny is an ok replacement, but doesn't feel as kid friendly to me.

em-bee•56m ago

without root, how can they mess up the system?

at worst they can mess up their account. then set up a new one. i don't see a situation where you would need to reinstall remotely.

don't let them choose distros. use the same distro you have, or one that you are comfortable supporting. everything else will make it harder for you to help them.

InfamousRece•2h ago

I set up Scratch for my daughter but she ended up mostly playing games (Minecraft and Super Tux are her favorite). She did pick up some computer skills though. For example she has pretty good understanding of files and directories - something that most kids struggle with in mobile-first era. I don’t allow internet access. She is too young for that.

singleshot_•2h ago

I’d lock a bunch of parts in a closet and tell the kid he’s not allowed to use it. Worked pretty well for me.

Froedlich•2h ago

Please don't inflict Gnome upon them.

fullstop•1h ago

I made sure to expose my kids to Windows, Mac OS, and Linux. They would use Linux for a bit, but ended up on Windows for games and Mac OS for media. Over the years, though, as Windows has gone EOL on their hardware or they have been forced into Windows 11, Linux has come back.

My oldest now has mint on her laptop and Bazzite/W11 dual booting her desktop. This was her own choice, and she did the setups herself.

My youngest is now almost an adult, but I went through the same thing that you are doing now about 15 years ago, before the prevalence of smartphones. You have a lot more options now, especially with cheap hardware which is well supported by Linux.

    * I picked up a tangerine iMac, and managed to install OS X on it.  I had to install on a G4 tower first and move the disk over. This machine was not online, and it let them play games like Alphabet Express, etc, without the slings / arrows of the Internet.
    * The educational thinkpad / lenovo laptops were built like tanks and supported Linux well. These were online, so I put them behind my own DNS resolver so that I could block some websites like Roblox, Discord, etc.
    * Scratch was well received, but you have to watch the online interactions.

When they are older, let them install Linux and give them full control and root access. Let them break it and try to fix it -- if it's too far broken they can just reinstall.

If they're not into tinkering, or not into tinkering yet, consider an immutable distribution like Kinoite, Aurora, or Bluefin. It is difficult for them to break things

Don't expect them to dive in and never leave the Linux ecosystem, an important lesson is "the right tool for the job". If they know that it is an option, they can always choose it.

I might be a bit odd in that I've been using Linux as my primary desktop since 1997, so the kids have seen it around for their entire lives.

roscas•1h ago

First, it is really nice to see how many people use and know Linux and care about their kids being safe and care to teach them how to learn computer and programming.

Second, for such young age, you still need to manage the pc. So Manjaro with Plasma is my choice.

The software to install is your choice, because it really depends on what they will do, but Minecraft and other Minecraf-clones is a must and LibreOffice for their works.

Install LibreWolf with uBlock Origin, for their default browser. Keep Pi-Hole as the default DNS server and if you or them don't have one, buy a Raspberry PI and install one. That is a critical step. Best 70 bucks you will ever spend.

ggiesen•1h ago

I setup Linux Mint on an old HP laptop for my 7 year old. Things jist worked out of the gate. She doesn't use it for much else other than Roblox (Sober), Minecraft, YouTube, and OBS (to record videos - NOT stream), but it's teaching her how to use the keyboard and mouse and navigate by using something other than touch on a tablet. It also teaches her the basics of window managemen: minimizing, maximizing, putting them side-by-side, which has been a big adjustment but she's quickly gaining proficiency.

runjake•1h ago

A full KDE install, with all its apps.

sandworm101•55m ago

Easy: Steam deck for christmas.

danielktdoranie•53m ago

Cheap Chromebook. Kids are hard on stuff

vood•47m ago

This is such a weird thing to read. You try to project your ideas on the kids, thinking that is the best thing to do. Let them be.

I learned Linux when I was like 13 or 14 and not because my father told me. He didn't know much about computers in early 2000/late 90ties.

The curiosity, the desire to learn, the need to set up my own isp, the need to start to make money, the curiosity of how html, php and other stuff worked let me to Linux.

Teach them how to be curious and feed that curiosity, the rest will happen.

And if they choose Mac over Linux, just get of their way, otherwise they will rebel.

mrbuttons454•39m ago

I started with Red Hat 6 (not RHEL) as a kid, because it was what was included with the book on Linux that I was gifted. Some time around 2000, I was given some retired beige powermac G3 desktops, and I switched to Debian for its PowerPC port. I've been with Debian ever since.

So maybe pick something with the realization that they may stick with it for decades. :)

I also kept Windows on dual boot so I could play UT99 with friends. The social aspect is also important. My son is comfortable using our Debian machines, but also has Windows on his primary desktop so he can play Roblox and Minecraft Bedrock with school friends. I wouldn't want him to lose that.

a-dub•30m ago

i suppose the ideal would be a working device to browse the internet, a usb stick and a pointer to the arch install wiki.

turning things on their head, i got started myself with coherent floppies borrowed from a friend and then later slackware linux downloaded off some ftp site i read about on usenet.

i have vague memories of downloading mint for the atari st and maybe something about it's c compiler, but not much.

cess11•28m ago

Debian, XFCE. It'll be easy to use through point-and-click, decent hardware support, and the local nerds will almost certainly be able to reverse any software issues.

Kids commonly enjoy drawing, so it's likely a good idea to install Krita, which I'm not so sure is in the repos and might require a bit of imposition of hands.

Libreoffice will be installed by default, one might want to switch it out for something else for whatever reason.

dangus•20m ago

These threads always come across to me as “how do I get my kid to be exactly like me and enjoy my interests?”

> Linux with free and open software is the goal and focus.

Notice the goal and focus has nothing to do with the kids and their learning and enrichment.

estebarb•14m ago

The reason I started with Linux when I was 9yo (1999) is because we bought a computer and PC Magazine gave away a CD with Corel Linux. So I did what obviously must have been done... thankfully the disk came damaged, otherwise my lawyer dad would have learned the importance of making backups XD.

So, I would suggest: try to get a throwaway computer, give the kid it and an USB with Linux and let them alone. Do not force anything, just give them the tools and a gentle push. Let curiosity take the wheel and be prepared to answer a lot of questions.

rossdavidh•6m ago

My main advice here is that you need to tailor this to the individual child. What will turn one kid on to free computing, will cause another to think of Linux forever after as "that annoying thing which I was forced to use, when I didn't have a choice in the matter", and that's probably the opposite of what you want; it will associate "Linux" in their mind with not having a choice. What is this 8-year old girl interested in?

dayvid•4m ago

We were hacking library computers as a kid to access blocked sites. If you put a good enough reward behind almost any OS a kid will figure it out

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