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The Uselessness of "Fast" and "Slow" in Programming

https://jerf.org/iri/post/2025/the_uselessness_of_fast/
31•zdw•6d ago

Comments

IshKebab•1h ago
> The question I’m talking about here is, is “slow”, as a word standing by itself with no further characterization, even an applicable concept?

Yes, because there's usually context. To use his cgo example, cgo is slow compared to C->C and Go->Go function calls.

kragen•1h ago
But what matters here is probably whether it's slow compared to the code being invoked via cgo, which is only true for pretty fine-grained APIs.
Lio•51m ago
I mean, probably what really matters is how slow things are compared to the network latency of a HTTP request.

In web-development arguing about Go-Go vs CGo-Go times is probably inconsequential.

kragen•40m ago
Latency and throughput are not interchangeable, and it is entirely normal to do millions of subroutine calls per HTTP request, so even if latency is your only concern, a subroutine call operation with a latency ten thousand dollars faster than the HTTP request might still be too slow.
ncruces•1h ago
More important, IMO, are the non-local effects of using CGO (vs. eg. Go asm), and which are harder to understand.
shevy-java•40m ago
> A software engineer may be slicing and dicing nanoseconds

People typically live only once, so I want to make the best use out of my time. Thus I would prefer to write (prototype) in ruby or python, before considering moving to a faster language (but often it is not worth it; at home, if a java executable takes 0.2 seconds to delete 1000 files and the ruby script takes 2.3 seconds, I really don't care, even more so as I may be multitasking and having tons of tabs open in KDE konsole anyway, but for a company doing business, speed may matter much more).

It is a great skill to be able to maximize for speed. Ideally I'd love to have that in the same language. I haven't found one that really manages to bridge the "scripting" world with the compiled world. Every time someone tries it, the language is just awful in its design. I am beginning to think it is just not possible.

dominicrose•11m ago
In my experience, Ruby starts fast and does everything fast. But you can make a case against Ruby if you want, by making it do a lot of CPU work for a long time. Java may take some time to warm up and then it will destroy Ruby.

But why not simply write the code that needs to be fast in C and then use call it from Ruby?

stevage•39m ago
More useful words are "negligible" and "problematic".
My_Name•29m ago
Often, a user presented with a progress bar will wait much longer without frustration than a user without one will do. Sometimes, making the code faster is non-trivial and is not cost-effective when compared to making the user simply not complain.
dlisboa•15m ago
> Most people, most of the time, doing most web work, are so thoroughly outclassed on speed by their web framework and server that the speed of their choice is irrelevant. Which means they should be selecting based on all the other relevant features.

I disagree with that as the choice of framework doesn't impact just the request/response lifecycle but is crucial to the overall efficiency of the system because they lead the user down a more or less performant path. Frameworks are not just HTTP servers.

Choosing a web framework also marries you to a language, hence the upper ceiling of your application will be tied to how performant that language is. Taking the article's example, as your application grows and more and more code is in the hot path you can very easily get into a space where your requests that took 50ms now take 500ms.

fabian2k•8m ago
I think people tend to overestimate how much certain choices matter for performance. But I don't agree that the speed of frameworks doesn't matter in most cases. To me the base performance of such a framework is essentially like a leaky abstraction. The moment I hit any bottleneck I suddenly need to understand how the framework works internally to work around it.

I'm unlikely to get bottlenecked on well written and idiomatic code in a slower framework. But I'm much more likely to accidentally do something very inefficient in such a framework and then hit a bottleneck.

I also think the difference in ergonomics and abstraction are not that huge between "slow" and "fast" frameworks. I don't think ASP.NET Core for example is significantly less productive than the web frameworks in dynamic languages if you know it.

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