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Wealthy foreigners 'paid for chance to shoot civilians in Sarajevo'

https://www.thetimes.com/world/europe/article/wealthy-foreigners-paid-for-chance-to-shoot-civilians-in-sarajevo-zrljbb27z
78•mhb•2h ago

Comments

mensetmanusman•1h ago
After the mass graves hoax in Canada, it’s hard to take these stories designed for outrage and ad revenue seriously without more evidence than what is being presented.

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/commentary/no-evidence-of-ma...

lifestyleguru•1h ago
Imagine you can shoot at people, no consequences. Travel somewhere, pay a fee, shoot, then come back to your cozy reality.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/sep/09/the-gaza-famil...

brohee•46m ago
There seem to be clear admission of war crime, that looks like prime indictment material by the ICC, which could make traveling not so cosy in the future.
Loughla•31m ago
Daniel Raab can never come back to the United States. And to be honest, I say good, he can stay away.

Ideology is one thing, but he is enjoying killing civilians, knowing they're civilians. Awful.

mykowebhn•1h ago
Do you have another less biased source?

From Wikipedia:

> The Fraser Institute is a conservative Canadian public policy think tank registered as a charity.

This is the first time I am hearing about the mass graves being a hoax.

gruez•53m ago
Not the OP, but

>As of April 2025, no bodies have been exhumed from the suspected gravesites, largely due to a lack of community consensus on whether to investigate detected anomalies at the risk of disturbing burials.[9] As of January 2024, at least three official excavations had been performed with no bodies discovered, though at least one excavation only investigated a portion of the reported ground anomalies at that site.[10][11][12] Disputes regarding the conclusiveness of the evidence has helped spawn a movement of denialism about the existence of some or all residential school burial sites.[9][13][14] Indigenous groups and academics have dismissed claims of a "mass grave hoax", saying that claimed discoveries of mass graves were present in a minority of stories published by mainstream media and that there had been public misinterpretation of what had actually been announced in 2021.[15

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_sc...

It sounds like the "mass" part of the "mass graves" is disputed, and there's motte-and-bailey on both sides (eg. "you must think nobody/bazillion died in residential schools") muddying the dispute.

Steven420•52m ago
Only four supposed mass graves have been investigated and all four found no bodies. There is no credible evidence that says there are mass graves
pcthrowaway•20m ago
It wasn't exactly a "hoax" though, more like sensationalized reporting. Like "so-and-so identified a site where we believe there could be bodies buried" turned into "mass grave uncovered"

Some potential burial sites were investigated, no bodies were found. Unmarked graves in association with residential schools certainly have been found in Canada, and since proving a negative in regards to these claims is untenable, the media is generally reluctant to say "see, there were no mass graves after all"

pyuser583•15m ago
How do you feel about Quillette? https://quillette.com/2025/02/27/four-years-zero-graves-now-...
evanjrowley•1h ago
If you seek it out, you will video footage of pogroms from that conflict.

Not the exact circumstances as described in the article, but killings were very real.

ignoramous•57m ago
> fraserinstitute.org/commentary/no-evidence-of-ma...

You've a gripe with outrage and yet... I mean, any think tank can write anything they think and post it to the interwebs. Here's the other side's perspective:

  Since the confirmation of community knowledge of suspected unmarked graves in Kamloops, First Nations across Canada have located evidence of the remains of more than 2,300 children in suspected unmarked graves at or near former residential schools and Indian hospitals, according to the report.

  But the unauthorized visits to the site are the work of a "core group" of Canadians who continue to deny, defend or minimize the physical, sexual, psychological and emotional abuse inflicted on Indigenous children in the Indian Residential School System "despite the indisputable evidence of survivors and their families," Murray said at a Friday news conference. Denialism and disrespect exacerbate the pain and trauma of survivors and community members trying to grieve and search the grave sites. "Denialism is violence. Denialism is calculated. Denialism is harmful. Denialism is hate," Murray said.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/denialists-t...
smithoc•41m ago
So there is no actual evidence, and you're committing a hate crime if you ask to see evidence or point out that there's no evidence.

If a white person has a drunk uncle or crazy aunt tell a wild conspiracy theory at a family gathering, people dismiss them as a kook. But if an indigenous person does the same thing, it's supposed to be treated as sacred cultural knowledge being passed down?

I have an uncle who swears there are thousands of people who've been killed by Bill and Hillary Clinton. He has lists and websites and links to obituaries about deaths "deemed suicides" or "not investigated" or "unsolved". I don't think that my skepticism about his claims is violence or hate.

jalapenof•56m ago
It was malicious to leap to “genocide” and started burning churches down when there were plausible explanations like a smallpox outbreak.
jvdvegt•1h ago
https://archive.is/i37JU
cm2012•1h ago
There were many war crimes in Sarajevo, but this one is probably fake. The only evidence for this is some shady testimonies, and it was not backed up in post war testimony of soldiers, flight logs, etc., even though many other war crimes were.
ls612•1h ago
An extortion/blackmail racket then?
hansmayer•46m ago
Maybe get yourself acquainted with a topic before you throw up something like this. For reference here is a video of renowned russian poet Eduard Limonow, shooting at Sarajevo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkjPZvz27mg . I guess this video and the "little" fact that the Italian state prosecutor would not just open an investigation based on some hear/say should make it a bit more believable, shouldn't it?
brohee•39m ago
Limonov was here for ideological reasons. All sides had foreigners in their ranks of various motivations, from the mercenary and the adventurer to the strongly ideologically motivated. What is missing is evidence of people coming there for pure entertainment and paying for the privilege...
hansmayer•33m ago
Well, that's why the Italians are conducting the investigation, isn't it? No-one claimed it was proved.
ChrisArchitect•1h ago
Previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45893535
sys32768•1h ago
And the evidence is...a claim by an Italian writer who heard it from a former Bosnian intel officer who heard it from...

But this does remind me of that excellent docu-series The Line about members of a Navy SEAL platoon who accused their chief of war crimes.

https://tv.apple.com/us/show/the-line/umc.cmc.4u53f7zokr7g40...

causal•46m ago
Wouldn't be the first time an Italian prosecutor went on a witch hunt based on wild conspiracy theories: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/monster-of-florence-amanda-knox...
hansmayer•42m ago
I mean serb snipers were already shooting the civilians en masse in Sarajevo. Its not a huge leap from that to lending the opportunity to a few depraved rich idiots. The Epstein files absolutely show you how depraved some rich folks are...
smallstepforman•31m ago
There were snipers on all sides doing immoral things. The war in Sarajevo started when a Serbian wedding was shot up in April 1992, causing the Serbs to panic and want to secede from Bosnia & Herzegovina. Then you end up with "rights for this ethnic group but not the other", and a civil war breaks out with geopolitical meddling from foreign wanna-be powers.
hansmayer•22m ago
No please, stop puking this bullshit...if you believe that, you also believe Princip's assasination of Duke Ferdinand was the underlying cause of WW1 (and not the tensions among the great colonial powers of the time).
kstenerud•39m ago
No, the evidence is an Italian writer who did years of research, including a Bosnian former intelligence officer as a key source. He also uncovered that Bosnian intelligence warned the Italian secret service that this was happening.

There are also specific individuals whose details have been sent to SISMI for investigation.

sys32768•9m ago
So far it sounds like anti-Western and anti-Bosnian Serb propaganda emanating from the 2022 Slovenian documentary Sarajevo Safari with archetypal comic-book style bad guys always referred to as "wealthy foreigners", AKA nihilistic Western elites, the last gasps of pure evil popping from the bubbling froth on the rotting corpse of Capitalism.
josefritzishere•1h ago
Richard Connell wrote the short story "The Most Dangerous Game" on this topic. That was 100 years ago and now it's real.
mellosouls•45m ago
Plenty of non paywall links covering this story, eg:

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3epygq5272o

Italy investigates claims of tourists paying to shoot civilians in Bosnia in 1990s

egorfine•22m ago
I have personally known an individual here in Ukraine who wanted to go for a human safari in Eastern Ukraine in the heyday of the previous war with russia, closer to 2014.

All it takes is a mix of morbid curiosity, a bit of boredom, lots of money and a prominent antisocial personality disorder.

f1shy•18m ago
I absolutely understand the interest and engagement of the HN community. But how is this news for a hacker?

I think this is mainly a political topic, with no relation to science or technology. Or did I miss something?

I flagged it. The discussion is interesting, but I do bot enjoy it in HN. Or at the very least is certainly not what I come to HN for.

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