It definitely has its downsides though, I’ve missed a lot of the incidental chats and socialising, throwing ideas around etc, and it can be a bit mentally draining. I’ve started renting a hot desk at a wework in the city once a month just to be around people and feel part of something bigger. I actually feel less tired after schlepping into the city and back that day than I do on most other days, which is surprising.
That said, it’s really lovely overall. I have a kid on the way and it’s hard to imagine RTO now.
The only thing I can think of is our poor (by international standards) home internet speeds.
At work, I work. At home, I do home things. When I work and home at the same place i find it very hard to switch into either mode.
This effect is greatly magnified when you have kids.
I worked remote for a bit , and my overall happiness levels increased when I started working at co-working space. Granted my commute is less than 15 min.
My gym schedule has improved since it’s on the way to the coworking space.
I think the best setup is hybrid IMO
So when working from home, the best way to enable actual work getting done is to have a work room that's dedicated to doing work in, and nothing else. No kid's toys allowed in there, no kids allowed in there, no videogames installed on the PC in there, and so on. This was what it took for me to achieve what I believe to be my maximum focus.
I have issues getting to the gym as well, and you describe the externalization that made it easy for me to get to the gym every day as well. For me it wasn't about having the gym on the way to something, but rather having every aspect of my environment upon waking up keyed to the goal of getting me out of the house and into the gym. So my gym clothes are underneath my feet when I swing my legs out of bed, so I just chuck them on out of habit. My gym shoes are visible from the bathroom near the door so I can't help but see them when I go in to brush my teeth and then come out after. My gym card is out and visible as well.
I've learned my brain is too squishy to be depended upon, but when I leverage externalization and make the universe be my brain for me, I can get stuff done I never thought I'd be able to do. Sometimes the easiest way to do that is to get a job that provides a lot of structure for you, but my hope is that that isn't truly necessary for everyone, because having the ability to set your own workspace is hugely freeing and something I think everyone should have the right to do.
I had an advantage in the big push to WFH because I have really bad ADHD and already knew I couldn't trust my brain, and had already read a bunch of books on ADHD and focus and motivation, and so had the strategies ready to go. I feel like if people who prefer office environments, specifically for the reason that they focus better there, had these same strategies, they might be able to find their home office (or a coworking space or library) just as effective as their work office.
And this happens at the office, too. There are always ways to slack off, you don't need to already be using your sweet gaming pc or whatever. Mindlessly browsing HN or what have you "while compiling" has the same effect.
That said, I think both hybrid/distributed teams and individuals suffer a bit from mixed remoteness, and I'd strongly consider working somewhere where in-person teams are fully so (eg not mixed with remote folks) and vice versa.
Companies would change their tune on WFH real quick if that were the case.
If I work one extra hour, was that unpaid and my employer stealing from me? If I work one hour less, is that me stealing from my employer? No on both counts in my opinion.
When picking a job I consider a commute a cost already and would need to be compensated for it in the form of higher pay.
But I don't think we should artificially stack the deck in favour of people who live close to work, that just adds a totally fake and unneeded item to the long list of advantages e.g. non parents have over parents who need a bigger house or access to schools.
I agree that commuting should be considered as part of "work", but I always took into account commute time when considering job opportunities. The pay obviously never had an explicit "commute" line, but my math was "this job + this commute for this pay". Figure if it's worth it or not.
And what’s wrong with that?
Is every person on earth entitled to a job?
If yes, voice your concern with your local government.
Person 1 - childless, has a flat in the city.
Person 2 - couple kids, needs more space, lives 45 minutes from work
Why should person 2 be at a disadvantage?
If you want to get paid more, negotiate it.
Seems like a non issue to me.
You could maybe make an argument only for minimum wage jobs as a special case, because the price for labor can't freely adjust downwards if you force companies to also pay for commute.
Employee salaries don't fluctuate continuously. In most cases, labor loading - the number of warm bodies paid to be there 9-5 - can't fluctuate much, quickly (with the exception of catastrophic business failure). Salaries and wages almost never go downwards for employees already hired. Etc.
Before COVID, I would go on work trips of 1-2 weeks every 2 months or so, which was more than enough "office time" to get my doses of office chatter, noisy work environments, stupid in-person meetings etc.
Even before the lockdowns (Melbourne had the longest in the world), I made it part of my routine to go outside every day to get coffee/lunch/sit-in-the-park/walk/talk to people.
It's important to have that human contact, but it's better that I get to choose who to have that contact with and when and how. There are numerous friends from my work that I also see out of work, but there are a great majority that I have no interest in being with in person or outside the work context.
nicbou•2mo ago
Is there anyone having a worse experience working from home? I'm curious to hear some stories.
brailsafe•2mo ago
Especially in the winter months, if your work day is now at your home with no intrinsic reason to go anywhere else, you wake up in darkness and first leave the house in darkness, meanwhile the agency you'd otherwise have is impeded by people watching your Slack status wondering where you are, it's not exactly ideal. With no physical difference between work and home, you and up basically always being at home, which can be dreadful at times.
mgarfias•2mo ago
I get 90% of my social interaction needs from my wife/kids/dogs. The rest I get from going to the gym and lifting.
OTOH: i also live in the woods.
brailsafe•1mo ago
Either way, that's perfectly fine, it's not for me, but I wasn't arguing against it. I'm quite happy in the city near the mountains, I wouldn't even entertain moving 3 blocks deeper into the suburbs.
The Gym is an underappreciated social space.
mgarfias•1mo ago
wiseowise•2mo ago
Find a better workplace, Jesus.
phantasmish•2mo ago
komali2•2mo ago
defrost•2mo ago
brailsafe•2mo ago
> At least every room in my house has ample natural light…
Must be nice, I live in a basement. A place where every room, presumably more than one of them, has ample natural light, costs a minimum of a million dollars, but I still prefer my city to one who's only value proposition is ample sunlight and cheap houses.
AuthAuth•2mo ago
mierz00•2mo ago
My preference is 3 days in the office, I find anything less than that and I struggle mentally. My home starts to feel like a prison and I lose connection with people.
I really value human connection and I just don’t get the same thing online.
lumost•2mo ago
danpalmer•2mo ago
As for the coworkers not knowing your boss thing, I agree, although in a more positive framing – it can be helpful to have a work social group that isn't in your reporting chain. You can get this at many medium sized and up companies.
wiseowise•2mo ago
komali2•2mo ago
I don't necessarily disagree, but I make a slightly different argument, in that, humans will make human connections, whether they like it or not, and the most typical human experience is to make stronger and stronger connections with people you see regularly. Furthermore, depending on the company, there's the desire to be a part of something bigger, there's social conditioning setting in to prove yourself among your peers, there's the desire to not appear like you're lazy.
Where I think you'll agree is that your company will 100% exploit these human aspects of you to get a better margin on the value of your labor vs the compensation they pay you.
wiseowise•2mo ago
mierz00•1mo ago
Turns out therapy was great, it made me realise that my work place was toxic and since leaving I haven’t needed a therapist again!
vladvasiliu•2mo ago
But apart from that it seems like the worst of both worlds? You still have to commute there, you can't reasonably expect to have peace and quiet since it's mostly open space (or if it's a closed office, how's that better than staying home?), and you don't even get to see your colleagues.
In my case, what I hate with the office is the commute and the random noise people make (phone calls, chats, whatever). I rather like my colleagues, so it's not like I want to avoid those people specifically.
mierz00•1mo ago
ctoth•2mo ago
Check out meetups! Bars! Reading groups at your library! Gym classes!
mierz00•1mo ago
But for me it’s not really that. It’s about walking in a place and knowing everyone, having small talk and feeling comfortable chatting.
Work takes up a lot of time, so I prefer to have that along side it. Rather than only in my spare time. I
z3dd•2mo ago
mierz00•1mo ago
anotherevan•2mo ago
I think you're being a bit reductive there. For one, the article indicates the greatest benefits are from a hybrid environments where some time is spent in the office.
knallfrosch•2mo ago
I also feel disconnected from work when WFH, like I don't care about the company at all. The obvious problem is that it made me think the time spent working was quite a waste.
I didn't take as many and as socialable breaks.
When I was unproductive, I felt internal psychological pressure to work longer. Now in-office, I clock my hours and am free.