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EFF Launches Age Verification Hub as Resource Against Misguided Laws

https://www.eff.org/press/releases/eff-launches-age-verification-hub-resource-against-misguided-laws
67•iamnothere•2h ago

Comments

mikece•2h ago
Any time law-makers claim that a law is meant to protect children you can guarantee that the safety of children had almost nothing to do with it. This is all a push to normalize digital ID (to protect the children!); once normalized it will become mandatory.
no_wizard•1h ago
I always ask myself who wins with these laws (well, any law really). so far, the only winner seems to be the government and data collectors. It seems these laws are intended to collect leverage in the long run.
guilamu•53m ago
Well, you just answered brilliantly to your own question. You nailed it.
owisd•27m ago
You think car seats and childproof bottle caps are a conspiracy as well?
dvh•1h ago
This gives me Leisure Suit Larry flashbacks
blitzar•1h ago
Ken sent me
kingforaday•1h ago
LSL4 was my favorite.
giancarlostoro•1h ago
Not to mention people lose accounts because someone reported them as underage, and now they don't want to fully dox themselves over this. Who can blame them considering discord's own support ticket system was hacked which included people who had to validate their age.
bobajeff•1h ago
I wonder what the psychological effect of having little or no privacy would do to people. Are we all going to be paranoid schizophrenics? How would a world of paranoid schizophrenics work? How insane are world events going to be from that point on?
pyuser583•56m ago
You think you have privacy?

At best, you go back and forth between no privacy, a heavily condition privacy. At best.

Let’s take privacy back, but that’s a big process.

If you haven’t internalized surveillance, start working on it!

rlpb•52m ago
I'd be OK with an "I am a child" header mandated by law to be respected by service providers (eg. "adult sites" must not permit a client setting the header to proceed). On the client side, mandate that consumer devices that might reasonably be expected to be used by children (every smartphone, tablet, smart TV, etc) have parental controls that set the header. Leave it to parents to set the controls. Perhaps even hold parents culpable for not doing so, as a minimum supervision requirement, just as one may hold parents culpable for neglecting their children in other ways.

Forcing providers to divine the age of the user, or requiring an adult's identity to verify that they are not a child, is backwards, for all the reasons pointed out. But that's not the only way to "protect the children". Relying on a very minimal level of parental supervision of device use should be fine; we already expect far more than that in non-technology areas.

ProjectArcturis•22m ago
I'm not sure that making parents legally culpable for their kids being smart enough to download a new browser is LESS government intrusion.
e40•9m ago
It could be added at the router? The child's computer could be identified and this header added, in a MITM situation... but, maybe that would be easy to defeat, by replacing the cert on the client? Not my area of expertise... really just asking...
hypeatei•19m ago
Okay, so the HTTP header idea seems like it would have two issues:

1) Given that it just says you're a "child", how does that work across jurisdictions where the adult age may not be 18?

2) It seems like it could be abused by fingerprinters, ad services, and even hostile websites that want to show inappropriate content to children.

phantasmish•14m ago
> 1) Given that it just says you're a "child", how does that work across jurisdictions where the adult age may not be 18?

It's a client-side flag saying "treat this request as coming from a child (whatever that means to you)". I don't follow what the jurisdiction concern is.

[EDIT] Oooooh you mean if a child is legally 18 where the server is, but 16 where the client is. But the header could be un-set for a 5-year-old, too, so I don't think that much matters. The idea would be to empower parents to set a policy that flags requests from their kids as coming from a child. If they fail to do that, I suppose that'd be on them.

hypeatei•10m ago
The concern is that websites have no way to tell the actual age in this scenario so you'd be potentially inconveniencing and/or blocking legitimate users (according to the server jurisdiction's rules)

It doesn't seem sufficient, and would probably lead to age verification laws anyway.

bena•15m ago
I am a Russian proxy site, I make requests for you without the header. I serve you the content because I don't care about following American laws.

Alternatively, just use an older browser that doesn't serve the header.

If anything, you'd want the reverse. A header that serves as a disclaimer saying "I'm an adult, you can serve me anything" and then the host would only serve if the browser sends that header. And you'd have to turn it on through the settings/parental controls.

Now, this doesn't handle the proxy situation. You could still have a proxy site that served the request with the header for you, but there's not much you can do about that regardless.

pembrook•14m ago
> Perhaps even hold parents culpable for not doing so, as a minimum supervision requirement

Even the idea of prosecuting parents for allowing their child to access 'information,' no matter what that information is, just sounds like asking for 1984-style insanity.

A good rule of thumb when creating laws: imagine someone with opposite political views from yours applying said law at their discretion (because it will happen at some point!).

Another good question to ask yourself: is this really a severe enough problem that government needs to apply authoritarian control via its monopoly on violence to try to solve? Or is it just something I'm abstractly worried about because some pseudo-intellectuals are doing media tours to try to sell books by inciting moral panic?

As with every generation who is constantly worried about what "kids these days" are up to, it's highly highly likely the kids will be fine.

The worrying is a good instinct, but when it becomes an irrational media hysteria (the phase we're in for the millennial generation who've had kids and are becoming their parents), it creates perverse incentives and leads to dumb outcomes.

The truth is the young are more adaptable than the old. It's the adults we need to worry about.

alkindiffie•48m ago
Would be great if EFF also sets up a phone verification hub.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45989890

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55•smurda•7h ago•30 comments

EFF Launches Age Verification Hub as Resource Against Misguided Laws

https://www.eff.org/press/releases/eff-launches-age-verification-hub-resource-against-misguided-laws
67•iamnothere•2h ago•19 comments