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Carrier Landing in Top Gun for the NES

https://relaxing.run/blag/posts/top-gun-landing/
194•todsacerdoti•2h ago

Comments

drbig•2h ago
Lers of Spoil: this is about a NES game ;-) Pretty cool still, especially if one's into reverse engineering.
unwind•2h ago
Meta: Should have "NES" added to title to clarify it's about a game, not (as I thought) the movie.
ethagknight•2h ago
The mission accomplished regardless of crash or land is hilarious
ceejayoz•2h ago
Very prescient, too!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission_Accomplished_speech

blitzar•2h ago
Come on, buddy, pull up. Pull up, Cougar.
pikkoloassembly•2h ago
Oh god the trauma this brought back.
tclancy•1h ago
Seriously, I'm glad everyone else is young enough not to have been scarred by games that either were designed to eat quarters or designed to keep you at it for a couple of months so you got your money's worth.

Why not show the last race from Decathlon by Activision to see if my forearm muscles cramp up instinctively.

joe_guy•21m ago
There was also that water level in TMNT https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PHiFNWJXWgI
Scene_Cast2•2h ago
If you're into carrier landings and have a VR headset, I highly recommend checking out VTOL VR.
symmetricsaurus•2h ago
Don't think there was ever a Top Gun for Virtual Boy.
rob74•2h ago
> After about a minute of flying the game checks your state and plays a little cutscene showing either a textbook landing or an expensive fireball. Either way, you get a “Mission Accomplished!” and go to the next level (after all, you don’t own that plane, the taxpayers do):

For realism's (and comedy's) sake, they could have shown a pixel ejecting from the five (I think) pixels that form the jet before it explodes into a fireball, then floating down on a tiny parachute and being rescued by a tiny boat.

...but seriously, you didn't even get your score reduced for crashing the plane on landing?

bitwize•2h ago
In the "bad ending" to Rocket Knight Adventures (complete the game on Easy or lower), you actually see Sparkster leave the Pig Star's crashing escape pod as a pixel, then there's a little sneezing sound as a tiny parachute deploys. It's kind of disappointing, but then to see a real ending you're supposed to beat the game on a higher difficulty.
thinkingtoilet•2h ago
I remember this being next to impossible as a kid. The whole game was tough, but this was on another level.
pak9rabid•1h ago
Back when video games separated the men from the boys.
ru552•46m ago
It was tough, but it wasn't Battletoads tough.
ghc•2h ago
I never played Top Gun, but I did grow up playing "Turn and Burn: No Fly Zone" for the SNES. All these years later, it's still amazing to me how much the graphics improved from one console generation to the next. I don't remember any other console transition being so consequential from a graphics perspective.
jrjeksjd8d•1h ago
Super Mario 64 was an N64 launch title. Resident Evil 4 was a late Gamecube title. In my mind that's probably the biggest gap in graphical fidelity between generations of console. But I can see how going from NES games like Super Mario Bros to SNES games like Star Fox would be a close contender.

PS1 -> PS2 -> PS3 or Xbox -> 360 feel more iterative because they started after the 3D era had already begun. We haven't had a new dominant paradigm for gaming since then (besides mobile gaming).

doubled112•33m ago
I've heard that last part put as "we're further from the PS2 than the PS2 was from the Atari 2600." The statement really stuck with me.
jjice•1h ago
Classically featured on the Angry Video Game Nerd: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuZTUX1bwJ0
minimaxir•50m ago
And the follow up, where the AVGN attempts the landing with a technique as arcane as decompilation: https://youtu.be/MYDuy7wM8Gk?si=VE22_o6tfQ5jvrL1&t=512
busterarm•1h ago
I actually learned how to do this by playing the aircraft carrier landing simulator game that was at the USS Intrepid. It's a little more fleshed out but the speed range and altitude is roughly the same. The simulator gave you a light indicator to assist with your approach.
moron4hire•1h ago
This is one of those cultural memes ("The Top Gun landing was ImPoSsIbLe") that tells on the person saying it for not having read the manual. If you don't read the manual, the landing sequence is pretty much impossible to figure out. If you do, you pretty much get it the first and every time after that.
phantasmish•1h ago
The trick is just to know the numbers to aim for and ignore the instructions.

I had the game and the manual, but I can’t recall if I ever read the manual. I played the game a ton and was maybe 50/50 at the landings, but just followed the on-screen instructions. I could probably have puzzled out the target numbers, but never did (was it in the manual?). Now you can just google the correct values and nail it every time (paying no attention to the on-screen directions).

[edit] incidentally, my “it’s not actually hard” thing from the NES is the dam level in TMNT. It’s a challenge like the first two times you play it, then never again. It’s just not that hard. I think it’s easier than tons of Mario game levels, for instance.

kmeisthax•1h ago
A good chunk of the difficulty in the TMNT dam level comes from the fact that it has a lot of poorly implemented mechanics. Displaced Gamers has a really good video breaking all of it down here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHiFNWJXWgI
biofox•46m ago
Thank you. You just unlocked a repressed trauma.
cm2012•1h ago
That said, this is bad game design. A manual should never be needed.
palmotea•1h ago
> A manual should never be needed.

That's going too far.

Also, we're talking about the 8-bit era: 1) technical limits prevented a lot of in-game exposition that you could do now and 2) before the internet, people had fewer options for reading material. I read every manual for every NES and SNES game I ever had, multiple times. If I was into a game my options were limited to 1) play it, 2) read the manual if I couldn't play it (e.g. if I wasn't at home or not allowed to take over the TV to play).

raldi•1h ago
Plenty of time to read the entire manual on the car ride home from Toys R Us or while another family member was using the one TV.
p_ing•1h ago
Manuals in those days were often essential for background story, gameplay, and anti-piracy.

Your statement applies today; game design back then was different, manuals were not frowned upon and often exciting to read through. They were part of the game.

TeMPOraL•49m ago
> A manual should never be needed.

Following that rule puts a hard cap on the game's depth and complexity at the design level.

It's probably why most games today are pretty shallow.

More generally, it's also why most software grew from tools into Fischer-Price toys over the past two decades.

NDizzle•47m ago
This was back in the era when manuals (and companion documents) were needed by many, if not most games.

There was a lord of the rings PC RPG I played around 1990, I believe, where many of the NPC interactions said to refer to page N, paragraph M. They didn't have the space to store all the text in the game.

moron4hire•46m ago
I think it's fair. Even an experienced pilot would probably crash on their first attempt at a carrier landing if they didn't do some book-study first.
vunderba•1h ago
Except for those of us as kids who RENTED the game which didn't typically come with the manual...
debo_•1h ago
I never had much trouble landing on the carrier, but refueling in the sky? I think I only managed it a few times.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vetEg8J-wcw

phantasmish•1h ago
My recollection is that if you missed it you kept playing but were doomed to crash maybe 30 seconds later from low fuel. Talk about punishing.
palmotea•1h ago
> 1398 mi/h

Isn't that something like Mach 1.8? That's one fast tanker.

ceejayoz•1h ago
There is a F/A-18 tanker variant, at least.

But you don't do the refueling at those speeds, heh.

Boxxed•1h ago
The refueling music is the best part of the soundtrack, and somehow that video doesn't have it...different version of the game?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfUZix8jVBY&t=187s

jabl•1h ago
How convenient that refueling also replenishes your missiles.
boo-ga-ga•26m ago
Hah, same for me:). But still loved to do these things over and over again.
virgil_disgr4ce•25m ago
This was the part that my brother and I could never, ever, not even once, complete. I still rue it to this day.
teekert•1h ago
Reminds me a bit of the game Retaliator, when I was 12 a class mate earned himself a night of "pick your own time to go to bed at camp" because he could show the teacher how to land. [0, the landing is at the very end]. I think at the time nobody knew what key to hit to deploy the landing gear (and flaps, though I think you could land without flaps). And since it was all copied stuff there was no book, no internet...

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYwcrxbhiLs

detritus•1h ago
Gosh, I miss the aesthetics of vector games of this era. My absolute favourite was Armour-Geddon (on the Amiga), which because I'd pirated it I barely had any clue what to do but.. it was still fun, and so beautiful. And fast!

I know there's Tiny Combat Arena from 'Microprose' but its development's taking a while. I'd dearly love to know if there's anything else of that contemporary ilk out there today.

actionfromafar•44m ago
Ah those vectors..

I loved them too. During that era I got to try some kind of flight simulator on a Silicon Graphics. Smoooth shapes, extremely high resolution, must have been lots of tiny triangles, and nice shading. I remember thinking, this is the future, can’t wait to get this in personal computers!

Nah, instead almost two decades of muddy lores textures on lopoly models.

I guess now we are finally there, with raytracing in games. But I would still like to see the nontextured aesthetic make a comeback.

monooso•1h ago
Now I just need to get the hang of docking in Elite.
chuckadams•1h ago
Docking computer was like the very first thing I would buy. That or a mining laser so I could more quickly get the cash to buy the computer. On the C64 version, it would play Blue Danube in a shout out to 2001, and I still remember the horribly flat note in it (it had to be deliberate, the same note is fine in the rest of the piece). Sometimes it would try to dock with the wrong side of the station, but that usually only happened if you turned it on when on the wrong side already.

Before then, just approach the bay straight on and if you go slow enough, you'll dock fine even if it's perpendicular. Probably differs with whatever version you're playing though.

ArnoVW•3m ago
If memory serves, that was relatively easy? Compared with this?

You fly to the entry, point towards it, and then rotate until rotation speed and phase match.

But yea, the docking computer was definitely easier =)

nocoiner•1h ago
This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we’ll be lucky to live through it.
tclancy•1h ago
The number of times I've used that quote in the last 12 years . . . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnRdPZjoMKM
nocoiner•1h ago
It’s an unbelievably versatile and appropriate quote, and yours is an unbelievably on-point username.
axpy906•54m ago
“the landing portion of the stage looks like this” Have not seen that ever and had an NES
bjourne•51m ago
The landing was a piece of cake compared to the inflight refuling mission! I played Top Gun until the casette broke but could only pass that mission a handful of times.
amarant•51m ago
I was pretty smol when I played this game last. I don't think I've ever managed to actually land on that hangar ship. That was what my older brothers were for!
ckozlowski•35m ago
I didn't either!

Granted, I wasn't good at video games in general. And this one infuriated me, because I loved it. I could easily beat the first level, but then I crashed on carrier landing. This happened for years. I only ever saw the first level of this game.

Then one day, while staying at my elementary afterschool sitter's house, one of the kids there told me he played Top Gun as well. He could land, but wasn't very good at the rest of the game.

A plan was formed.

The next day, I brought the cartridge over, and we settled in. I'd play the level, then hand him the controller at which point he'd plant it on the deck. Rinse and Repeat. Top Gun and Top Gun: The Second Mission didn't have too many levels, (6 maybe?) and I don't think it took us too long to beat. Neither one of us had seen much of the game. But working together, we beat both in a matter of hours.

I still look back on that as one of the few NES games I finished without codes or a Game Genie, just the help of a friend. =D

jcalvinowens•46m ago
I love sim hijinks. It's possible to reliably land a 737 on the carrier in X-plane: just take off with 30min of fuel, drag it in with full flaps and high power, and set the parking brake before you touch down.
wat10000•32m ago
I wouldn't be surprised if it's possible in real life. The Navy tested a C-130 on the USS Forrestal and accomplished 21 landings. I'm sure a C-130 has better short-field performance than a 737, but they were also testing it with substantial cargo on board. Official figures for required runway distance for a 737 are far in excess of a carrier's deck length, of course, but those figures include weird things like "safety" that are not strictly required, and tend not to fully account for the 40+kt headwind you can get from a carrier steaming into the wind.
tuhgdetzhh•2m ago
Just for comparison, this is how the code could look like in Python:

  SUCCESS = 0
  TOO_FAR_LEFT = 2
TOO_SLOW_OR_TOO_LOW = 4 TOO_FAST_OR_TOO_HIGH = 8

MIN_ALTITUDE = 100 MAX_ALTITUDE = 300

MIN_SPEED = 200 MAX_SPEED = 400

MIN_SPEED_200_RANGE = 238 MAX_SPEED_300_RANGE = 338

MAX_HEADING_RIGHT = 8

def landing_skill_check(altitude: int, speed: int, heading: int) -> int: if altitude < MIN_ALTITUDE: return TOO_SLOW_OR_TOO_LOW if altitude >= MAX_ALTITUDE: return TOO_FAST_OR_TOO_HIGH

    if speed < MIN_SPEED:
        return TOO_SLOW_OR_TOO_LOW
    if speed >= MAX_SPEED:
        return TOO_FAST_OR_TOO_HIGH

    if speed < 300:
        if speed < MIN_SPEED_200_RANGE:
            return TOO_SLOW_OR_TOO_LOW
    else:
        if speed >= MAX_SPEED_300_RANGE:
            return TOO_FAST_OR_TOO_HIGH

    if heading < 0:
        return TOO_FAR_LEFT
    if heading >= MAX_HEADING_RIGHT:
        return TOO_SLOW_OR_TOO_LOW

    return SUCCESS

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Carrier Landing in Top Gun for the NES

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