Liskell – Haskell Semantics with Lisp Syntax [pdf]

http://clemens.endorphin.org/ILC07-Liskell-draft.pdf

60•todsacerdoti•1d ago

Comments

bjoli•1h ago

I will prempt the comment that always shows up in discussions of this kind:

No. Typeclasses do not replace proper macros. Go home, you are drunk.

BalinKing•1h ago

Another argument I've often heard is that laziness largely obviates macros. Personally, I agree that this is often true—but not always, and that last bit is where Lisp-style macros would be really nice.

(^^ edited based on one of the responses below.)

jasbrg•49m ago

do you know of a post or something you could point to that elaborates that argument? interested because I'm having trouble coming up with the line of reasoning on my own

ddellacosta•41m ago

This is not a direct response to the question of how laziness obviates the need for macros, but it mentions some specific relevant cases:

https://augustss.blogspot.com/2011/05/more-points-for-lazy-e...

BalinKing•40m ago

I'm having trouble finding anything concrete online (other than people simply repeating the folk wisdom) other than control flow operators, which are implemented as normal functions in Haskell (i.e. including custom control flow operators).[0] Although, one Reddit comment[1] did also mention typeclasses as obviating other types of macros, so I've edited my earlier comment accordingly.

[0] https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/5xge0v/comment/deh...

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/1929xn/comment/c8k...

Symmetry•23m ago

The venerable master Qc Na was walking with his student, Anton. Hoping to prompt the master into a discussion, Anton said "Master, I have heard that objects are a very good thing - is this true?" Qc Na looked pityingly at his student and replied, "Foolish pupil - objects are merely a poor man's closures."

Chastised, Anton took his leave from his master and returned to his cell, intent on studying closures. He carefully read the entire "Lambda: The Ultimate..." series of papers and its cousins, and implemented a small Scheme interpreter with a closure-based object system. He learned much, and looked forward to informing his master of his progress.

On his next walk with Qc Na, Anton attempted to impress his master by saying Master, I have diligently studied the matter, and now understand that objects are truly a poor man's closures." Qc Na responded by hitting Anton with his stick, saying "When will you learn? Closures are a poor man's object."

At that moment, Anton became enlightened.

merelysounds•11m ago

Some fun code examples in Ruby: https://medium.com/@citizen428/of-closures-and-objects-e9507...

Y_Y•25m ago

I'll get in trouble if I show up this drunk at this hour, can't I just bolt on a templating system?

EricRiese•1h ago

There's also Hackett: Haskell with Racket's syntax and macro system, by Alexis King

privong•36m ago

To save folks a search:

github repo: https://github.com/lexi-lambda/hackett

Documentation: https://lexi-lambda.github.io/hackett/

fithisux•1h ago

It is time for Rusted !!!

Rust semantics with D syntax (garbage collector is a bonus).

Xophmeister•1h ago

Didn’t D get an ownership model, a la Rust’s affine types, relatively recently?

vindarel•1h ago

The other way round, a Haskell on top of a Lisp, in production today: https://github.com/coalton-lang/coalton/

> Coalton is an efficient, statically typed functional programming language that supercharges Common Lisp.

Presentation this year on the ELS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of92m4XNgrM

dieggsy•26m ago

I'm not sure I'd say this is "the other way around"; Coalton strives to implement Haskell or ML-adjacent semantics (in the type system, for example) with Lisp syntax. "With" here meaning that it is both implemented in and written with Lisp syntax.

Edit: I think I see what you mean now. Lisp backend vs Haskell backend.

Anyway, Coalton is a joy to use and IMO a breath of fresh air in CL. It's quite easy start using as a library; go all-in or only use it in specific parts of the code. It's great to be able to choose between (or intermix)the flexibility of CL and the guarantees of a statically typed language (as well as some nice performance boosts with arguably less work). Some aspects are still young (some of the standard library, ecosystem, editor support), but it's quite thoughtfully crafted and I'm excited to see where it goes.

srott•1h ago

How does it compare to Shen?

https://shenlanguage.org

adastra22•1h ago

Kinda hard to tell when I can’t find a single example of the language on its website.

swatson741•43m ago

Date of publication is from 2007.

felipelalli•23m ago

Savior of the universe.

skywhopper•11m ago

I was told Lisp didn’t have syntax.

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