[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal%E2%80%93air_electrochemi...
Gunpowder is 4-10 times less energy dense than gasoline. The difference is that gunpowder includes fuel and oxygen-producing substances, much like most of Li-ion batteries.
This thing is in gunpowder energy density range.
It's progress. The trouble is reading about it through the hype department at the university's PR operation.
Yes but:
It's signal that battery tech will maintain its cost-learning-curve for some time to come.
It'll be noteworthy, to me, once these announcements start to trail off.
An energy density of 1270 Wh/L is indeed roughly double what is currently found in top-tier electric vehicles. However, as with many battery research avenues, it is not viable on a practical level unless a major breakthrough is discovered in addition.
Here is a list of all the issues that must be resolved before such battery technology is viable for commercial use.
It only lasts about 100 charge cycles before degrading to 80% capacity, which is not sufficient for commercial use. LiFePO4 reaches this after a minimum of 3000 cycles.
It uses silver. In addition to this likely being a deal-breaker for mass production, the paper probably downplays the mass loading of silver required to maintain that 99.6% efficiency.
Anode-free batteries have zero excess lithium. Every time you charge/discharge, you lose a tiny fraction of lithium to side reactions. The paper claims a Coulombic Efficiency of 99.6%. The fact that they hit ~82% suggests the degradation is severe and inevitable without a massive reservoir of extra lithium, which defeats the "energy density" gain.
Density suppression for 100 cycles is not proof of safety. Dendrites often grow slowly and trigger short circuits later in life (cycle 200+).
There is also the known problem with pouch cells and significant volume change ("breathing"). The paper quotes volumetric density including packaging, but does it account for the swelling that happens after 50 cycles? Often, these cells puff up like balloons, rendering them unusable in a tight battery pack.
They tested at 0.5C (2-hour charge). Fast charging (15-20 mins) typically destroys lithium metal anodes instantly by causing rapid dendrite growth. This technology is likely limited to slow-charging applications.
Finally, there is no mention of temperature effects on performance.
I don’t mean to be negative, and research like this is extremely important. But this research paper is not properly framed. It’s like an archaeologist finding a buried house and extrapolating that this could mean we found an entire city! Why can’t we just say that the archaeologist found an interesting house?
guiding lithium to deposit in designated locations rather than randomly
. In simple terms, it acts like a dedicated parking lot for lithium, ensuring ordered and uniform deposition."
(I'm wondering if some process like this -- might one day replace (or supplement) photolithography for creating chips/IC's...)
cogman10•1mo ago
That's really terrible.
It's interesting, but 20% loss after 100 cycles is just not great. NMC gets that at near 1000 cycles. LFP gets that at near 5000 cycles.
oofbaroomf•1mo ago
dyauspitr•1mo ago
hinkley•1mo ago
So yeah I’d like to know the answer to your question too.
cousinbryce•1mo ago
cogman10•1mo ago
ryukoposting•1mo ago
I'm always skeptical of any idea that ends with a bespoke industrial-scale recycling process. People tend to massively underestimate the complexity of recycling, especially at scale.
gmueckl•1mo ago
ryukoposting•1mo ago
Nothing I'm saying is meant to condemn recycling as a concept, by the way. Only to condemn technologies where disposal is dismissed with a shrug and a "idk just recycle it."
cogman10•1mo ago
AFAIK, the lead in the water supply doesn't come from batteries. It mostly comes from lead pipes. Lead acid battery recycling is one of the more efficient recycling programs out there.
ryukoposting•1mo ago
Recycling lead-acid batteries is extremely efficient. Nearly the entire battery by mass is recovered.
But, it also causes severe lead pollution around recycling sites. Lead acid battery recycling is one of the leading causes of lead poisoning around the world [1]. Estimations vary, but all generally agree that millions of human-years of life have been lost due to lead pollution caused specifically by lead-acid battery recycling. [2]
[1]: https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-0-387-77030-7_...
[2]: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5990833/
Returning to the original point, recycling anything involving heavy metals is extremely difficult to do without poisoning people. If we can't avoid it with one of the simplest, dumbest battery technologies in regular use today, I don't see how we're going to avoid it with a battery technology involving heavy metal nanoparticles.
cogman10•1mo ago
In fact, the second link is more about the problem with using smelting to recycle lead. That requires a lot of power and thus emits a lot of CO2.
Is it the case that lead acid batteries are being primarily recycled through exports?
specialist•1mo ago
maximus-decimus•1mo ago
Reason077•1mo ago
TrainedMonkey•1mo ago
kazinator•1mo ago
Few consumers think this way. Something doesn't have double the capacity that it has; the capacity is the capacity, and the decline looks bad.
ryukoposting•1mo ago
But yeah, 20% degredation in 100 cycles is atrocious. No amount of firmware shenanigans will be able to paper over that, not in any regular consumer product at least.
I can still think of use cases, though. Reserve power sources that aren't meant to be cycled daily, where smallness is valuable. Those little car jumper packs, for example. If there was a UPS close to the size of a regular power strip, I'd buy a few.
hinkley•1mo ago
There was someone working on a membrane a while back that’s pretty good at diffusing the lithium transfer in a way that reduces dendrite formation substantially, for instance. That’ll drop your volumetric advantage and likely your max discharge and charge rate a bit but would fix a lot of other problems in the bargain.
I’m not saying that the solution, but there is a palette of tools you can mix and match and that may be one of them.
joecool1029•1mo ago
It most certainly does not. Most devices track battery health % (last full capacity divided by design capacity) and the gauge just presents state of charge (current capacity/lastfull)
The better phone charge threshold systems measure usage and keep the phone in the 30-80% soc range as often as possible.
Voltage drops faster on old cells as they age so you need a coulomb counter. Only extremely shit designs guess soc based on voltage alone.
Reason077•1mo ago
Not really. At 1270 Wh/L, even with 20% degradation, these cells still retain far more energy than a LFP cell (which are more like 350 Wh/L).
The question is, what happens at 200, 500, 1000 cycles? Does the degradation continue linearly or does it slow down? ... or accelerate?
zoeysmithe•1mo ago
It is important to note that additional improvements in practical cell parameters, such as further optimized electrolyte (E/C ratio), increased stack pressure, optimized separator selection, and higher areal capacity of cathodes, can potentially enhance both the energy density and cycling performance beyond laboratory-scale demonstrations.
Post-mortem analyses confirmed reduced Li accumulation, minimized swelling, and suppressed cathode degradation, validating the robust interfacial stability of the system. By concurrently addressing the reversibility of Li metal and the structural stability of Ni-rich layered cathodes, this synergistic design offers a scalable and manufacturable pathway toward high-energy, long-life anode-free LMBs.
u8080•1mo ago
marcosdumay•1mo ago
eru•1mo ago
mschuster91•1mo ago
NMC and LFP had similar issues when these chemistries were at laboratory scale. Give it time and the issues will be solved.
cyberax•1mo ago
woeirua•1mo ago
flerchin•1mo ago
atomicthumbs•1mo ago
gamblor956•1mo ago
joecool1029•1mo ago
atomicthumbs•1mo ago
tooltalk•1mo ago
Also, LFPs are mostly deployed in low-range EVs and mostly in China. Most EVs outside China still favor NCM/NCA, but I suspect that LFP is going to gain market share in budget friendly, low-range EVs.
gamblor956•1mo ago
tooltalk•1mo ago
In China, the current trend in "high-end" smartphones/laptop is to switch to higher-energy silicon-anode batteries. LFP is primarily for low-energy dense (gravimetric/volumetric) storage devices, such as power banks; or in vehicles, low-end/low-range EVs, or stationary energy storage (ESS) -- BYD being one notable exception.
China implemented rules in mid-2025 banning uncertified (no 3C mark) and recalled power banks from Anker & Romoss models, from domestic flights due to fire risks.
tooltalk•1mo ago
They have already gone through multiple iterations: NCM523 first was mass-produced in 2007; the latest mainstream NCM is now NCM811, followed by the next-gen NCM9.5.5 (higher density). LFP is now up to the 4th generation.
That being said, the EV batteries aren't just driven by improvements in the cathode, but also in the anodes, such as silicon composite, or in this particular case, anode-free batteries.
ok_dad•1mo ago