- play-time and clean-up-time are 2 dimensions of toys, and you can use these dimensions when you are considering to buy a toy
- author likes magnetic building toys (???)
- amazon ref links to buy those magnetic building toys
I've read it, I've found it a waste of time, so I gave a warning/summary so people coming after me know what to expect?
Am I doing it wrong?
I found the post informative.
Also, sadly these days many people assume such summaries are written by an LLM, and HN users seem to really dislike them.
For me the big problem with Lego was not clean up time. For me the big problem with Lego was stepping on them barefoot. How do these other toys compare?
Larger (like tall 6x2) bricks are uncommon outside buckets, and a lot of larger pieces like dedicated wall-sections or big vehicle nose-bits or car undercarriages are now rare.
The result is that my old sets are a mix of everything from large contoured structural plates down to tiny pieces, but my kids’ bins of legos are like 98% tiny pieces. They use them less than I did, I think because it’s hard to sort through the loose pieces when they’re mostly very small, and with less variety there aren’t as many large pieces to use as jumping-off points to start a build, and making, say, a house-height wall or the front of a space ship is slower than when we had more bricks that could kinda short-hand those pieces and let you skip the middle, if you will, to focus on both the big-picture and fine details. I doubt I’d have liked Lego so much if mine had looked like theirs.
There is a definite element of “you get what you pay for” when it comes to that stuff. Unfortunately… because some of those knockoff kits look super cool.
Sounds like it's gone too far the other way now and they're still not managing to find a middle ground? But it does depend partly on what age of kids we're talking about.
Duplo blocs come close, but they are pricey (hard to gift second hand toys) and you can only stack them when the other toys interlock in more interesting ways. For small kids, building an articulating shape the size of their arm with 4 or 5 blocs is really magical.
The 11yo wants few new sets now because he doesn’t know where he would put them, and declines to swap out his assembled sets.
Feels just like Grandma's ole box o bricks
I see that the Lego I remember and the Lego of today are two vastly different things.
We have tons of Lego too but these were far better play-value for the dollar. Not even close. Can’t say if the knockoff brands are as good.
(Can’t vouch for any of the rest of these but those giant magnetic tiles look potentially like a much better investment than dedicated e.g. kitchen playsets, way more versatile)
We got some fabric bins to store them in, which made cleanup a 2 minute affair if adults helped or 5 minutes if the kids did it alone.
Highly recommend.
e.g. dropping a 1kg steel block onto the toy, and checking it doesn't break in an unsafe way (section 8.7 in the link).
https://law.resource.org/pub/eu/toys/en.71.1.2014.html#s8.7
Section A.51 is about magnetic construction toys.
[4.17.4] https://law.resource.org/pub/eu/toys/en.71.1.2014.html#s4.17...
Took a bit to find, yet eventually [Directive 2009/48/EC, Annex 1] "List of products that, in particular, are not considered as toys"
9. "bows for archery over 120 cm long"
[Directive 2009/48/EC, Annex 1] https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:32...
Pfew. Not, quite that crazy.
For bonus points, get pics of your kids' faces lit by only that light.
Boom: next year's card.
That being said ...
We got a lot of mileage - many good years of use from male and female children - out of "Snap Circuits":
A very, very cool building ecosystem with easy to build and understand recipes - we built a working FM radio, for instance. Not at all fussy or fragile.
My children are not particularly "STEMy" but they all enjoyed breaking out the "circuit kit".
The most fun my kid had was playing make believe games with me. Like I'd say "you're lost in a forest and you see a cabin up ahead and a trail that goes past it. What do you do"? And we'd go from there. Zero dollar cost and unlimited hours of fun until they grow up enough and don't want to play anymore.
I can vouch for the quality of modern magnatiles
The problem now is that there are a zillion knock-offs sold everywhere, both retail shops and online. We don’t buy them, but the kids get them as gifts. They all have something different, from the magnet positioning to the outer dimensions, presumably to try to dodge some patents. These become the weak point in bigger builds or throw off the dimensions in ways that add up and cause early collapse.
I’ve been quietly removing the gifted knock offs and replacing them with real ones because it makes the experience less frustrating.
We’re starting to have the same problem with LEGO now
Really satisfying to click the buttons and see the super bright lights as a young kid. The games like mirror were easy yet technical which had us all competing for high scores. Definitely well thought out
Everyone appreciated it didn’t involve cleanup of any little plastic pieces like the original litebright
Personally I choose all types in rotation. One toy of high duration is Play-Doh but afterwards needs a cleaning machine.
I've since given them to a nephew and I'm happy to see he gets just as much entertainment out of them as I did. Plain wooden blocks can represent almost anything. There are no batteries or moving parts to fail. Mine got a little bit of surface wear but they still work just as well as they did when they were new and small children don't care about perfect appearance. I wouldn't be surprised if they end up getting passed down to another generation and continue to provide the same entertainment. I highly recommend this kind of simple toy for young children.
Bonus: You can roll a lot more down those long rubber racetracks than just cars.
Bonus 2: Why did these go away? https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/chubs-baby-wipes-stac...
Then we’d take a large marble and use two long triangular blocks as flippers to “play” on it.
Tilting was NOT advised.
As a parent I very much agree. And for grown-up children too.
On my desk I have a small tin containing small wooden blocks and planks, arches, etc. I get lots of play value from them - when my thinking is blocked, or if I just want to fool around and not think at all. I'm in my mid fifties.
And over at my climbing club's off-grid climbing hut we have a big box of over-sized, home made jenga blocks. Pretty-much everyone plays with them: not only jenga, but also just building structures or giant domino runs or whatever.
We all need to play sometimes.
As an aside, there's an app out there is an app for the iPad called "Cuboro Riddles" which is a "how do you make the marble go from here to there using the blocks." Given that there are multiple ways that a block can channel a marble, this is a tricky one.
... and then if you get this over into the lego domain (not as "just something to fiddle with..." it gets you into the GBC. There is a standard for how one connects to another described at https://www.greatballcontraption.com/wiki/standard ... and then at lego conventions people hook them all up. https://youtu.be/avyh-36jEqA
With friends and family on occasion (individuals ranging in age from 27-70) , multiple hours have passed setting up and playing with this domino set.
I really believe that play is vitally important at all ages.
Can it be that the moment Lego moved from mostly bricks to custom single use shapes for every kit the joy of combining them died? My kids build car, Dino, Harry Potter set once and then gather dust. Bridges, castles, towers and roads from Kapla get rebuild every day.
At one point way back then, my dad made something in the workshop that improved them tremendously: Wooden boards.
These were small, thin, very flat boards of oak -- about 3/16" thick and 3/4" wide. Their lengths varied in 2" increments, and the length of each board was written on it.
With boards added in, the blocks got a lot more interesting. Fastening was still limited to gravity, but things like cantilevers started happening.
I’ve seen some sets that are blocks with random flat surfaces but still balanced.
However, I notice that many antique block sets seem far superior to newer sets.
(I’m sure someone must make an amazing new set, I see some suggestions in the comments).
Having made some wooden block sets from scratch, what I am always amazed about with a good set is balance / size of pieces, coupled with variety and quantity. The balance being a vitally important part that seems to be overlooked in “bad” sets.
I would build structures deliberately designed to gradually self destruct through a long sequence of actions. A cylinder rolls down a ramp and displaces a support that tips a tower that hits a lever that tips another ramp… endless fun.
Bonus adult points - how do they work? How is it the tiles always stick to each other no matter the orientation? Easy once you know, but it took me (and friends with physics degrees) a little thinking to get.
Then you'll want an adult to deal with the body fluids and other nasty stuffs.
PS; what I mean by "teach a 4-5 yo kid" is really spending a lot of time with them rehearsing cleaning and drilling it down. It pays dividends, but you'll be spending months and months, if not years, doing the cleaning with them at a slower pace than if you did it just yourself.
One of my favourite toys was Mouse Trap. I never once actually played the game. Building it and setting it off once or twice was plenty.
I agree with some of the sentiment of this blog but I also think it’s discarding a perfectly valid side to toys and play.
Or paint. Or glitter.
Even kids who can't read yet will somewhat play with them outside of the rules. Except they're fragile, easy to lose, will bring fights and other troubles as they grow up, and cost a ton more money if they really get hooked.
There are 37 more in the child's bedroom.
Also... if you ever meet a family with a baby or a toddler, I guess you'd gift them clothes?
- lego is a toy
- model plane that requires assembly is very likely a toy
- some drones a toy
if you meet a family with a baby or a toddler do not buy them a fucking toy, it is simple as that. it pollutes the planet and brings nothing good to anyone, not a child, not a parent and not you wasting money on stupid shit
If you must get something outside of a donation to education savings, please either get a relevant book, something genuinely useful, or some kind of consumable. A pair of fun socks. A good a new backpack. Tickets to a sports game or a museum. A bag of snacks. A few sheets of stickers. New legitimate sports equipment (if they're into the sport and could actually use it). All of these are far better than some cheap plastic noise maker.
They wouldn't bother with good snacks (they'll probably buy a huge bag of gummy bears or lollipops) or good socks (they'll get some funny 100% polyester socks).
Oh, and "few sheets of stickers" are also pollution, they're basically 100% plastic.
Expensive plastic, still a toy. Guess you're right it's not cheap. Definitely depends on the kid on this one. Legos can be OK toys, one of the few rare exceptions.
> Is a model plane that requires assembly a toy?
For the kind most people would just give as a gift? Absolutely just cheap plastic trash. It's definitely a hobby one can get into, but the quick gift stuff is pretty poor quality. And that model, once built, is probably fragile. Kids aren't often known for handling fragile things well.
> Is a drone a toy?
The cheap ones? Absolutely.
You really don’t understand people at all.
Usually cake baking of some kind. The kids will get bored after the initial mess making part, but will be expecting a yummy treat at the end, so the parent has to see the whole thing through, _and_ clean up the mess.
For an added bonus, the kid then eats the sugary treat, and they have that to deal with.
Another type of toy I've seen fit this bill has been wooden/plastic train tracks (the solid larger pieces type, not flimsy model type, and simple sturdy trains to go on them). It still has the element of customization and playing with what you build but cleanup is "scoop the large pieces into a bucket" (and stepping on them usually isn't painful!)
This Christmas, after putting aside the push car, some books, and a few other little toys from the grandparents, my 1 year old has spent the past 30 minutes chasing a large beach ball one of his siblings brought up from the basement.
I can second the recommendation for magnet tiles, though; everyone in the family seems to enjoy the satisfaction of them clicking together, and finding new ways to build random stuff. The toddler just makes stacks of magnet tiles, which is fine for his development. The 8-12 year olds enjoy building relatively complex structures. Then watching the 1 year old act like Godzilla an destroy it.
For cleaning we just dumped everything into a big box. Repeatability is endless
Nowadays each playmobil doll is extremely personalized which removes the flexibility to dress them as anything and limits the imagination and originality. Such a pity. No wonder Playmobil almost went bankrupt recently.
They were so good I bought a used one for my own kid who had a great time with them.
After some Googling, I see that the rights to Omagles were bought and are now sold under the brand Tubelox.
My preschooler daughter got Magna Tiles for Christmas and she's cleaning them up herself, which is a first for her.
I'm surprised the Minecraft blocks feel less strong - Magna Tiles seem to be using standard AlNiCo magnets and I expected, given the price, that the Minecraft ones would be using neodymium magnets, but apparently they're not and this weakness comes from magnets being only at the corners.
Arguably not a “toy”, but it’s interesting to think about.
It's good for their development and the clean-up-time can't be beat.
Or take them to a library that has toys, see what they play with, and then go buy that.
https://www.amazon.com/HABA-Musical-Eggs-Acoustic-Germany/dp...
He's also enjoying the Mega Bloks someone got him though he's mostly just sticking them together and throwing them.
Simple kinetic toys, of the sort where you put a ball in a hole and it pops out somewhere else. Same pleasure as a marble run, without the choking hazard.
Adult mimicry toys, like play kitchen, doctors bag, etc. With the right setup and creative inspiration they can learn to putter about inventing simple tasks and executing them.
Lots of free-play toys that my own kids use (4 and 7) can unconditionally be defended as still in use. They haven't been touched in an hour, but an ask to put it away is met with "I'm still playing with that". So: nothing gets put away until a parent pulls authority and overrules the kid's declaration that the game is still going. Understandably, the kids find this unfair and sort of demeaning.
A board game is different in so far as it has an ending. The kids never try to weasel out of putting Hungy Hungry Hippo or chess pieces or whatever back into a box.
Also, I read another article from the author and subscribed just based on how concisely she expresses her ideas. She just gets her point across, then quits. I love it.
I am very likely to be a father in the future. I am happy I have all my old consoles because it helps a bit with introducing kids to technology without them having access to all of it.
Soccer outside was fun too, there was a field nearby our house.
It's the only toy in the house that lasted the test of time from she 4-8 (and counting). Also I love tidying up Magna tiles, even that is fun!
My oldest kid got a small sample of Clixco and was surprisingly entertained even with a limited set of possibilities they offered. They're great fidget toys as well.
As soon as I got first Minecraft block to my 5yo, the magnatiles were almost forgotten. And she never played Minecraft in her life, but saw the movie and some YouTube vids. The fact that the tiles have an image and purpose is a huge benefit, because she creates better stories with them.
But I got it only after i got kiddo to cleanup her toys from the floor regularly.
Fair to question this. Most things are fake and… lame.
What about kid’s development? The whole point (okay, not while but the biggest) of a game is learning something.
My experience as a parent, and the conventional wisdom of parents I've known, including my own, is that there's no predicting the influence of a given toy on a kid's development[0]. My hunch is that toys are better if they give the kid more agency to make up their own play and games without supervision, and many of the toys mentioned in the article are of that ilk. That could be because I still like toys, to this day, with that kind of built-in agency.
Also, growing up in a emotionally stable family culture that values curiosity and learning is probably a huge deal.
[0] Excluding cellphones and the Internet, which are their own discussion of course.
Not the quickest toy to clean up, but still fun since it's a building activity of its own, stacking them against a wall or something.
So I'm not sure I agree with the "lowest clean up time", even though I'm really glad she's picked this up as a "hobby".
You can get an old iPad cheap and your kid will spend every waking second on it till they're old enough to drive. Or even longer!
Do you have an easel whiteboard paper roll thing? I think it fits this list.
[Directive 2009/48/EC, Annex 1] https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:32...
Only exception is stuff that's kind of a "specially designed personal computer" meant to "have a play value on their own".
Weirdly, even specially designed console like a Switch, Playstation, or XBox are not really legally a "toy" in the EU.
I know it's bad to give a kid a tablet, but the scoring used in the article is that bad it didn't award any points for how good it is for a child...
My child has had an old iPhone se since 4yo. It has no network connection. I load music on it. It only has music, camera, and voice recorder apps. Like most toys it gets intense periods of play and then goes back in the toy box with a dead battery for weeks.
It's my assertion that the problem with tablets/phones as toys for kids is the endless stream of new content. It's addictive and never gets old. If you find a way to cut off the firehouse of new (and keep the addictive apps off) then they eventually become just another boring toy. Us adults could learn from this too.
There was also some kind of recall or warning about the possibility of kids ingesting the magnets. That's about all I remember. Of course you never know as a parent whether the latest safety threat is serious or over-hyped. The claimed threat was that the magnets would click together in your intestines and wreak havoc.
I wonder what the present conventional wisdom is on those magnets.
That said, I still think Lego runs the board. My 40yo Lego is still in use, I still get pleasure out of it and my kid gets even more. My kid and I just finished team building the UCS millennium falcon and now we're having a blast playing with it. Soon it'll start being scavenged for other projects. I've never seen another toy equal Lego in replayability or in the vast array of ways it can be used. As a crusty old coot I complain about the seemingly single use pieces in new Lego sets and then watch as my kid uses them in new and creative ways in MOCs. No other toy we have has the same staying power and much to my wife's chagrin it's the yardstick by which I measure every other toy.
https://www.pricing-evolution.com/p/surprising-trends-in-leg...
The data in the graph from this next post shows an inflation adjusted per brick price of .40 USD in 1980 vs a little above $.10 now. Perhaps more interesting is the cost per gram analysis which also shows a large drop.
https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/15flwte/is...
I think people tend to romanticize the past and underestimate the effect of inflation across decades. One thing that may contribute to the idea that Lego is now too expensive is that the average sets seem to be larger and more complex now. Even if the bricks are cheaper the sheer quantity of them will inherently raise the set price. That may explain why the data in the Reddit post shows average median set cost having risen even while per brick cost has decreased.
It's one piece. Cleanup is picking it up and putting it where you want it. For playability, that thing kept each of our kids occupied for an unreasonable portion of their toddler-hood. We then passed it on to friends, and it did the same for their kids. They kept it, and gave it back to our kids when they had kids, and it's still delivering joy.
Lincoln Logs and Tinker Toys for a greener more affordable option.
but the toys in the article actually seem nice.
Large flat bases to build on, or not.
Wheels, or not.
Little characters, or not.
Train tracks, or not.
Etc.
If you don't make all basic context-defining options available all the time, it keeps lego play fresh and fun.
TheCleric•1d ago
cosmicgadget•1d ago