I think that would be widely decried especially on HN if that is one day implemented.

True. Everything has backdoored CPUs as its foundation. Consider, for starters: (Intel's 'Management' Engine); AMD's (PSP); Apple/Arm (black-box hardware).

You can layer as much theater as you like on top of the hardware-surveillance-layer in modern computers; it still won't grant you privacy.

I think that’s a sweeping generalisation.

Either way, the response was encrypted but they hold the encryption key atleast within proton-docs.

I also want to say that Proton allows the ability to change password through OTP, (Something which I sorta appreciate[0]) but that means that their infrastructure can then have the ability to change password and you can toggle that functionality by sending a request to proton to allow OTP and on which number, so proton themselves can do that too. Unless, I am getting it wrong, by default, Proton still has your encryption keys and even if you change them (which 99% including me might not do), even then I definitely feel like there can be some concern.

To be honest, There is nothing like zero trust, that's what I learnt, You are still trusting Proton Aka The swiss laws behind it so that you know that they won't get legally forced to give more data than usual (like US companies for example) but they will still comply with the swiss laws (recent proton incident)

Then, secondly, you have to trust Proton themselves, but with something like this incident where Proton Meet might be omitting somethings, it doesn't paste a clear picture of transparency or trust.

I don't really know why Proton might create something like Meet especially with its infrastructure relying on the CLOUD Act, and then, try to sell it within the idea of privacy. They both are contradictory.

Proton is, creating lots of products, On one hand I can appreciate that, but on the other, as part of community, I feel frustrated/sad because they don't have some core features like proper proton drive rsync support or even some API[1]'s surrounding it. I tried to do the experiment in first place because I wanted to create a commenting engine for static websites which could use proton-drive as its backend. They really could gain a lot from transparency with proper API support and letting the community do things with it, but that's not really the case :/

I am still using Proton but they definitely aren't a bastion recently. I might still recommend Proton, but I sort of hope that companies self host some open source applications themselves, whether self-hosting with hardware or in a proper EU cloud like Hetzner/OVH.

But Incidents like these are making me a little more hesitant to recommend Proton nowadays.

[0]: as someone who had lost one of my previous accounts after my Keepassxc database got deleted because of me accidentally wiping my archlinux with tinkering with it, Now I use Bitwarden with OTP on proton.

[1]: I was able to make something like an API myself by relying on something like puppeteer, even with puppeteer though, it was really hard to make something like that. I couldn't create a public endpoint of it because having puppeteer instances for a commenting engine would be very resource intensive.

I am fundamentally against spyware that constantly monitors you and reports anything. Because of the constant and pre crime nature of it.

On the other hand i am actually not fundamentally against turning over data when independent judges sign a warrant.

This is arguably a very tight rope to walk but i think thats the most realistic comporomise between my right to privacy and the right of others to get justice when something is done onto them.

Proton in some cases was forced to turn over whatever they knew of a few accounts, according to Swiss law. They try to obfuscate as much as possible, so they can't turn over complete e-mail conversations. But some info is in there, and they have to turn that over. But (correct me if I'm wrong) they have to only comply to Swiss law, when there's a court order.

Proton - HK owner, dev team in Bulgaria and marketing with mythical claims of "Swiss company privacy". For a company that is selling essencially trust, they sure are shady as f...

Please, people, use your own words, and don't overdo every little thing. It's tiring. When everybody does this, nobody stands out.

I think they can know the IP from every participant in the call and some other metadata?

Would you mind elaborating, pretty please?

Obviously proton should selfhost everything but I can understand why they didn't want to.

Good job on mocking others though :*

The article is showing that the proton claim that their new service is private from the US government data acquisition, including inability to access call metadata, is a lie (an intentional misrepresentation of the known truth by Proton).