Birth rates would also improve when boys and men are educated. Both genders need education and child support programs. Men/Boys need to understand what responsibilities they have, if they choose to have a child. They also need to understand the effects that having a child has on a woman's body.

Governments around the world would benefit their society by investing in family planning, family support (esp. child care) to enable parents to work and provide for their family.

An educated and healthy populace (from infant to old age) benefits everyone.

I’m very passionate about birth rates and I think they’re worth improving. Unfortunately, child support programs don’t move the needle, it’s thoroughly researched. Nordic countries have tried them in various ways, and the birth rate is still extremely low. Ultimately, the benefits of female education AND lowered child mortality AND access to contraception feel inextricably linked to lower birth rates.

I wish I had a solution. As an educated woman, why should I spend time developing an employable skill just to raise >2.3 children and not thrive in my career? Most research indicates that child support programs tend to just support people that already planned to have children. As someone about to be a first time parent, I would love more support in the US. But it’s hard to imagine a world where you take on a lifelong responsibility for, say, an extra $2k (or even $20k) being handed to you by the government.

Can you point to any examples of this:

>I think a stable fertility rate AND educated girls are simultaneously possible all around the world

i.e countries with a very high education attainment rate or high ranking in the human development index coupled with a high fertility rate? There was HackerNews discussion a while back that alluded to the fact the more developed a country becomes the lower the fertility rate.

Because its suggested that solutions like affordable housing, more free time, child care may help in a few situations but largely don't bump the fertility rates.

Developed countries are currently getting by on their immigration rates but as the rest of the world becomes more developed this isn't a lasting solution.

This subthread has people using "improve" to mean "increase" and "improve" to mean "decrease". Maybe you guys should stop talking past each other and converge on replacement rate?

Up until very recently, and especially in Africa, huge amounts of effort went into reducing birth rate to avoid locally-Malthusian situations with high child death rates and occasional famines.

Birthrates at or below replacement rate are ultimately a good thing as we improve automation and AI. Infinite population growth is not a realistic model. We can't even prove the current population level is sustainable.

Yeah but in poor/developing countries raising birth rates are not something they're looking for but the opposite, (the most important thing is reducing teenage pregnancy). I lived in Colombia and they had programs where they have free antibcoceptives, free antibcoceptives implants that last a few years, like a lot of effort is spent in preventing birth rates, since a lot of people without the resources have a lot of kids. I don't think the problem of birth rates is related to financial reasons when in poor countries you see people with multiple kids without being able to afford It. I know personally people that have 10kids.

I'm glad they have the option, but some evidence is needed that slaving away in a 3rd world factory actually makes you better off than having a man provide for you in exchange for child bearing. I suppose maybe it's better to be the slave of some random boss (who maybe also uses sexual assault and other coercion) than the slave of some man you or your family has picked, but who knows.

------ re: throttling "children" -----------

The person I responded to said "young women" not "children."

Well I wouldn't prefer children are slaving in a finger or limb slicing factory nor bearing children, but here we are. I'm guessing in rural Nigeria a 15,16,17 year old is making adult decisions either due to circumstances, being forced, or economics. We can't facially say the factory is the best or better one vs marriage, although I'm sure there are instances where it is.

I think so. These girls still live with their family, it’s not like they’re in some cordoned off area where marriage if forbidden. It’s just a few hours of school every weekday.

Basically there is social pressure to marry early if you’re not occupied in some way or have less prospects for employment after education.

not familiar with nigera perse but in most places with child marriage, the marriage is the reason girls drop out of school.

other then that often its financial reasons. they will put boys to school because those are classically expected to take care of the family while girl will be married off to some guy. (ofc this is changing in a lot of places bits its the historical reasons afaik)

> Am I misunderstanding ...

NO. I've seen quite a few things, across many cultures, pointing out that girls being any combination of low-value, low-status, and unsupported leads to them ending up as "cheap bodies".

That includes several American women friends, whose life stories include getting married at age 17-ish - because, with the situations in their own families, that really looked like their least-bad option.

> simply stating "stayed in school" feels like an oversimplification of what was done here

> Am I misunderstanding something here?

"Stayed in school" is a clear, binary condition that's easily measured and has obvious benefits to everyone because everyone is at least a little educated.

If I ask you "is your house temperature livable?" and you say "the thermometer says 20", answered. You didn't say "well, I purchased and installed a heat pump and duct distribution system capable of forcing warmed air to be distributed to the remainder of the house, which keeps the temperature in a habitable range, then ensured power supply remains connected and kept it on" and say I didn't really explain the important part.