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WH proposes rules giving political appointees final approval on research grants

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/white-house-proposes-new-rules-giving-political-appointees-final-say-on-research-grants/
51•jordanpg•1h ago

Comments

amanaplanacanal•1h ago
A return of Lysenkoism. Nice!
pstuart•53m ago
I'm curious to see how this is defended by the party members here.

Science should be guided by science, not ideology.

jordanpg•42m ago
Unfortunately, these are agency rules. Congress can intervene, but only with major legislative action, which is unlikely. There will be hearings and Senators will express great concern, but the Administration will probably be able to do whatever they want. If anything slows this down, it will be the courts.
pstuart•37m ago
The courts have truly been the last line of defense.

Congress being neutered is not an accident, hopefully it will be less fucked if the power balance shifts.

And as the OP is inherently political in what it's calling out, that is not the motivation -- it's the science. I get the fact that in the end, everything's political but partisanship itself is a cancer on the body politic. Just as we seem to be in late-stage capitalism, we are entering late-stage democracy. It pains me that we effectively arrive here by choice.

esseph•32m ago
> hopefully it will be less fucked if the power balance shifts.

We are never going back to where we were. That is past us now. There is only forward.

dc396•27m ago
Congress neutered itself, largely because it has been politically less risky to let the Executive branch do whatever they want, then either cheer it on or rage against it depending on party and what drives donations so congress members can get reelected.

The system is fundamentally broken.

pstuart•18m ago
I agree that it's fundamentally broken but I've been around to see it work and watch it fail.

The executive branch obviously is going to wield as much power as it can, but only one party is actually advocating for the executive as king.

So yes, both parties are the same when it comes to the corruption of the party leadership, but there are distinctly different platforms and ideals espoused -- and that difference matters.

rayiner•30m ago
If Congress wants to earmark that money for a particular purpose it can enact that into legislation. If it wants to empower the executive to make the decision, they can do that too.

Those are the only people who get to decide. Congress can’t turn over the expenditure of taxpayer funds to people who aren’t politically accountable.

paulryanrogers•4m ago
> Congress can’t turn over the expenditure of taxpayer funds to people who aren’t politically accountable.

If Congress doesn't stop the executive and the Supreme Court overrules any legal blockades then ... I guess they can and are doing so RN.

andai•41m ago
Indeed. Science has always been purely neutral and free any kind of social, cultural, institutional or economic pressures. That's the whole point!
dc396•19m ago
Science? Maybe in an ideal world. However, how science actually gets done has always been at the mercy of social, cultural, institutional, and/or economic pressures.
paulryanrogers•13m ago
Weren't they exaggerating to communicate sarcasm?
rayiner•36m ago
The country runs on the principles of the constitution, not the institutional principles of science. Control over spending of taxpayer funds always must remain within the political system.

Voters can always choose to turn over those decisions to scientists they trust. For much of the 20th century, that’s what voters did. But if they don’t trust the priorities of the current scientific establishment, they can also choose to put that control back in the hands of political appointees. The institutional principles of science cannot override the prerogative of voters to decide how their money is spent.

jordanpg•24m ago
That's a lovely thought but it assumes, as with so many other things about our republican form of government, that the political appointees are good faith actors, at least with respect to funding of science. There are many reasons to suspect that the goal here is not just control of funding, but the defenestration of science more broadly because scientific findings tend to conflict with assertions politicians would like to make. I would submit that people flying on planes, using cell phones and computers, and going to the doctor don't want that, even if they think they do.
rayiner•6m ago
[delayed]
delichon•27m ago
The people who have the power of the purse should be accountable to the voters.
ncallaway•23m ago
That’s Congress and they are.

The executive branch does not hold the power of the purse, and the fact that you can casually use that phrase in reference to the executive branch shows how far we’ve fallen as a country in a decade.

A very sad state of affairs.

paulryanrogers•7m ago
This Congress has deferred to the president so hard, it's difficult to see where one ends and the other begins. Based on recent primaries the R party is only becoming more sycophantic.

At times they don't even cotify their subservience through the usual measures like legislation and committees, except where needed to slap down any roadblocks to the unitary executive.

analog31•10m ago
Even aside from who manages the purse, accountability doesn't need to mean being able to defend every single funding decision. That would be a sign of bad management in any business, for instance. To me it means competently managing an institution.
ChrisArchitect•29m ago
Related:

What's Happening to Science in America

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48313687

globalnode•7m ago
Its all the way down to the bottom now, enjoy.
quantum_state•3m ago
It would spell the start of major corruption and the end of American sciences. God, please do something about it!

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