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An OpenAI Strategist Says AI Labs Should Rival Government Power

https://ai-updates.net/an-openai-strategist-says-ai-labs-should-rival-government-power/
15•ashurandi•2h ago

Comments

ashurandi•2h ago
This is kinda scary to think about... If we at some point have to pay a 'token-tax' or 'AI-tax' just to have access to something that may be embedded in all aspects of life... I fear society will get even more divided.
throwatdem12311•37m ago
Friend of mine got a new job. He’s required to and only allowed to use Copilot (because muh trusted enterprise partner).

He also has to pay for his subscription/usage out of pocket. Of course they didn’t tell him this until after on-boarding.

The corpo fucks want their cake and to eat it too. That’s where we are headed. Having the privilege to pay to have a bot do our jobs for us.

dathinab•30m ago
I don't think this is legal??

It's like telling someone they have to drive none stop for their job but neither giving them a company car or nor a budget for it.

(To be clear done and companies get away with it != legal. I know companies sometimes get away with exactly the example I named in some cases.)

ashurandi•15m ago
It may not be legal, but somehow I don't doubt that it is happening... I recall several friends over the years being told to use their personal phones or personal computers for work when they were starting out in a new position...
throwatdem12311•52s ago
It’s legal for employers to require mechanics, stylists, tradespeople to supply their own tools as a condition of employment as long as it doesn’t reduce their wage to below minimum wage. Why would developers be any different?
hodgesrm•1h ago
The thinking in this article seems muddled to me. Historically there are two fundamental models for rivalries between powerful economic actors and national governments.

* Regulatory capture - AI Labs [partially] capture government functions, i.e., take over. In practice this equates to oligarchy.

* Nationalization - Government takes over AI labs through some form of direct or indirect control (e.g., dirigisme).

The article discussion does not seem to consider either of them. And the idea that AI labs would act in the interest of citizens at large seems laughable. In practice it looks like California Forever [0], which is quite the opposite.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Forever

edit: clarity

dathinab•33m ago
I mostly read it AI Labs == established AI Labs i.e. under control of a few rich people. Else it wouldn't be called AI Labs but, idk. AI Comission (like FCC) or similar
an0malous•58m ago
This is the guy who said open weight models are “decelerationist” and will lead to “AI communism” and a “dystopian hellscape” so I’d categorize him more as an OpenAI spokesperson than a strategist. His takes always sound more like someone who chugged the kool aid rather than any kind of rational take.

https://xcancel.com/deanwball/status/2078133895766114412

esafak•42m ago
Open weights deter capex? Who cares!? Nvidia isn't paying me for increasing openai's capex. I want tokens, not capex. Am I misconstruing the argument?
dathinab•28m ago
no it's people presenting "this is good for a handful of companies" as if it is the "desirable outcome for the general population" even if the final consequences seem rather bad for the general population and might even threaten democracy
esafak•18m ago
The argument's so moronic I can't even follow it...
tensor•41m ago
Sounds more like a crank really.
khuey•58m ago
Governments are famously tolerant of other actors seeking to rival or usurp their power.
throwatdem12311•50m ago
Never gonna happen when governments could just bomb the data centres.
slx7•44m ago
As Moises Naim says, these days power is easy to get, hard to use, easy to loose.

As complexity/unpredictability rises in any system its natual that govt will shed power. We have already seen this with setting of interest rates.

There is a long list of reasons why the Treasury Dept, President, House, Senate, Supreme Court or NASA doesnt get to set the rate.

Why did they hand over that power to the central bank? Read some financial system evolution history. Mindlessly ambitious people, the kind who run things hardly ever hand over power to someone else unless they see weilding the power puts a giant bulls eye on their head when the inevitable unpredictable/uncontrolable event occurs. Same goes with the Church or Religious institutions. Why does govt stay out of that lane? Why did Italy hand over the Vatican to the Church?

dathinab•36m ago
there is a huge difference here between that and the central bank

the central bank is semi part of the state, AI Labs are not, AI Labs are fully under directly control of a extremely small number of people in a way which has nothing to do with democracy

founding a Organisation like the FCC but for AI oversight is a completely different topic, but that isn't what he is proposing

> Italy hand over the Vatican to the Church?

because it always had been a nano country under Church control, this is not comparable at all

> Church or Religious institutions.

most democracies have a separation of state and religion where religion has little to no governing power. When this isn't the case it's a failure of the state (often for historic reason). This isn't desirable at all.

torginus•2m ago
Haven't read the article, but multiple times during my life I have had to research how to do things in a domain, and have come up against academia (both literature and people), who seemed to have formed an opinion on how to approach certain problems, and what sort of properties a desirable 'correct' solution should have. When I have dug into the reasoning of why things have to be this way, the arguments often devolved into a matter of taste, or the strength of justifications have weakened considerably.

Nevertheless, if one were to turn their backs on existing research, not only would they draw the ire of academics (idc that much), but also would have to do a lot of stuff from scratch themselves, which usually is quite the undertaking.

These flamewars are not uncommon in CS, and usually involve forces and intellects much bigger than mine, and we often end up looking back at viable things left behind in computing history, just because the mainstream decided to go a different way.

If we are to outsource thinking to AI models, we will outsource these consensus driven 'rational' decisions to them, and then AI companies will have a pretty large say on what 'correct' opinions will look like.

dathinab•42m ago
this should and must not happen

at least in a democracy, even if flawed, power comes from the people, that is the fundamental raison d'être for people allowing a government to exist

this isn't the case of "AI Labs"

what he is proposing is nothing less then establishing at least partial oligarchy, or in other words while indirectly he is relatively openly saying he wants to overthrow not just the US constitution but more or all every democracies constitution (at least in spirit)

EDIT: Assuming AI Labs == existing private AI Labs like OpenAI. Something analog to the FCC for AI or similar is a completely different topic. But this wouldn't be called AI Labs as it wouldn't be a AI Lab. But a faster moving, less bureaucratic, commission (or similar group) which works in tight communication with AI Labs. So I'm pretty sure he means giving OpenAI and co. power officially comparable to the government in some sectors. Which means practical including corruption etc. it might be above that of the government.

trentor•39m ago
They really believe they are the new East Indian Trading Company. Delusion and all.
bravura•37m ago
The important meta-conclusion that the article sadly misses is that the government will soon be using AI to regulate AI.
ashurandi•17m ago
Somehow I feel like this is already the case... How many government employees are already using AI to support their government functions and duties? I'm guessing that its most of them...
taylorius•33m ago
Sounds like someone has a call with Howard Lutnick in their future.
neya•31m ago
Governments already use AI labs for surveillance, so, just the ownership will change, the victims will always be the citizens (Eg. see Flock cameras). Nothing gets better.
ashurandi•4m ago
That is a really good point... maybe it will be similar to what happened to the defense sector, where major players swallowed all the minor ones, and then the major ones merged, and became almost embedded into the government afterwards. Both too big to fail and too powerful to leave unchecked (from the goverment's perspective).
yapyap•19m ago
in the way Elon Musk rivals government power, with his ownership and absolute power over a social media platform, satellite internet much more, sure.

But it doesn’t really rival government power, given that the government would most likely crush anything that truly tries to compete.

(and if you don’t have the power to compete, do you truly rival it?)

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An OpenAI Strategist Says AI Labs Should Rival Government Power

https://ai-updates.net/an-openai-strategist-says-ai-labs-should-rival-government-power/
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