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The Case Against Formal Verification, 50 Years Later

https://ivan-gavran.github.io/0-social-processes-paper
21•ghuntley•40m ago

Comments

gr_norm•32m ago
The title may be slightly misleading if you haven't bothered to read the article. It's responding to a famous paper from 1979 critiquing formal verification. The article ends up disagreeing with most of its strongest claims in hindsight, though a couple appear to remain worthwhile.
bananaflag•23m ago
> Real-world systems are too messy to be specified

I agree with this counterargument.

I mean, you can verify that Euclid's algorithm computes the GCD. Or that quicksort produces a sorted version of the input array.

But how do you verify Facebook? Facebook computes what?

For some programs, the shortest descriptions of what they do are the programs themselves.

Edit: I agree with the replies that you can verify individual parts and properties, like with testing.

IsTom•16m ago
Anything with a GUI seems really daunting to specify. And then later you need to update specs to match GUI if you make any changes and you need to decide which is wrong: the implementation of the specification.
gr_norm•16m ago
Agree in part, but remember that formal verification need not be done in full. By analogy, we don't avoid testing simply because everything under the sun can't be tested. Even simple things like verifying that certain API endpoints are idempotent, or as a few steps up, that the datastores used by Facebook have distributed consistency and fault-tolerance properties, are of enormous utility.
ocschwar•10m ago
> But how do you verify Facebook? Facebook computes what?

You start by verifying the permissions structure for Facebook posts.

And by verifying the shortest, least complex functions in Facebook's server side code base.

mpweiher•2m ago
"The counterpoint is that specifications are closer to informal requirements than implementations are (and thus a mistake is easier to spot)."

I found exactly the opposite to be true when I took formal verification at university, and that was the major point that made formal specification / verification unattractive to me.

The Case Against Formal Verification, 50 Years Later

https://ivan-gavran.github.io/0-social-processes-paper
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