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Flock used >100 times to track veteran who recorded traffic stop

https://reason.com/2026/09/02/wisconsin-cops-used-flock-over-100-times-to-track-a-navy-veteran-after-he-lawfully-recorded-a-traffic-stop/
185•bbatsell•58m ago

Comments

claaams•37m ago
How was there ever any doubt that these cameras and this access would be used in this way?

I personally blame the lack of accountability that police have in the US and the lack of public oversight into how departments operate.

bigyabai•35m ago
I personally blame Y Combinator for looking at Flock and going "Well, there is potential for abuse, but that's a risk we're willing to impose on society to make some money."
solenoid0937•30m ago
Not enough people blame VCs and the people that fund evil things. They are accessories. They knew this would happen, let's not pretend they didn't.

They are just shameless because making money has been canonized as a greater moral good than being a decent human being. We need to bring back name and shame.

matsemann•25m ago
Sooo many will tout something along "fiduciary duty to shareholders" to explain why evil must happen. Just search for it in comments here on HN, and you will see it again and again, as if everyone's hands are twisted.
eecc•19m ago
Well, doing the most immoral and reprehensible thing on the edge of what’s lawful is a guaranteed “blue ocean” strategy so it’s inevitable that the most sociopathic will take the opportunity
jtbayly•3m ago
You are confused. Yes, lots of people say that here, but the intention is almost never to justify immoral behavior. Rather the goal is to delegitimize capitalism by blaming it for the immoral behavior.
01284a7e•25m ago
They are the reason these companies exist. When it comes to the creation of large for-profit technology companies, they decide what comes about and what doesn't. The blame is on them.
Zigurd•12m ago
They also fit startup logic in a peculiarly perverted way: try all the nasty stuff compartmentalized into a low stakes stealth mode start up, then become an acquisition target once you've got the perverted PMF of having a benign looking product that hides the evil within. Clean hands for the acquirer.
Jtarii
bko•8m ago
Its a camera bro, reading the same license plates your can read with your eyes. If you care about your precincts policies go take it up with them. You may as well go after companies selling firearms to police.
ggreer•29m ago
I'm pretty sure license plate readers and other surveillance tech have been abused constantly in the past, but we see more articles about Flock because they have better logging & auditing compared to smaller competitors or government-owned cameras.
ipython•20m ago
Flock also has the advantage of scale and centralization where previous solutions had neither
GymInMeCricket•26m ago
In my opinion, there was never any doubt that there would be over-policing. Rather, people doubt that they would belong to the over-policed parties. I hear similar arguments about NSF funding from my relatives: "yes, funding has been illegally cut, but it will not be cut for the people I know, only for the 'bad' researchers."
madaxe_again•24m ago
Leopards, faces, and all that jazz.
scotty79•21m ago
Calling fishing for vengance "overpolicing", that says a lot.
GymInMeCricket•16m ago
Appologies, but I don't know what you mean.
Hikikomori•8m ago
Its a fair bit more than overpolicing. If you don't think it is hope that boot is tasty.
repeekad•6m ago
Being anti police is a bit of a wedge in US politics, it's privileged to say we don't need as much police because the poorest communities are often who need it most.

Abusing surveillance tools has nothing to do with legitimate policing, so "over-policing" is probably the wrong word.

bediger4000•20m ago
There wasn't for anyone who paid attention. That "logic of surveillance" article a few years ago got it 100% correct: surveillance is immediately used against those who object to its use.
bko•19m ago
There was an audit trail for improper access using the technology and a lawsuit. How is this "lack of accountability" and "lack of public oversight"? Here are the 100 instances:

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.wied.11...

Zigurd•16m ago
Try FOIAing a body cam, and filing a complaint. You might get action before the next Ice Age. Record a cop doing something blatantly illegal and try finding a willing prosecutor. In practice there's no accountability.
bko•10m ago
This guy seemed to do it. I also have better things to do than record police and refuse instructions.

> Record a cop doing something blatantly illegal and try finding a willing prosecutor.

The cop wasn't doing anything illegal, from the article: While standing in a private parking lot in Sussex, Wisconsin, on May 4, 2025, Napoleon Jones witnessed a traffic stop made by an out-of-county police officer. "It just didn't sit right with me,"

Yeah dog, "just didn't sit right" doesn't really hold up.

ibejoeb•3m ago
It doesn't hold up? What the implication, then? That the recording was illegal and the post-arrest investigation yielded the wrong result?
cogman10•14m ago
Because the cops that did this won't face any real consequences. Will they be fired? Maybe. But will they stop being cops? Almost certainly not. Will they face criminal or civil penalties? Almost certainly not. Will they keep all benefits related to being a cop? Yes.

That's what's meant by a lack of accountability. Cops abusing their authority to pester people they don't like has been happening for nearly as long as there has been cops. But in modern America they have extra protections and one of the most powerful unions in the US which shield them from all real punishments.

Just being caught abusing the system is meaningless.

AtlanticThird•18m ago
Are you aware of any current country or any country throughout history that has granted the government powers like this and hasn't been abused? I think you're mistaken to blame lack of accountability and lack of public oversight. I think it's simply not possible.
tene80i•11m ago
To some extent, the U.K. They’ve had flock-style cameras for years, and while there is of course police abuse there’s far greater accountability. Brits are more comfortable with the idea of police having those powers - but of course that’s partly to do with the fact their police don’t have guns, so are generally less terrifying.
jmclnx•36m ago
Hopefully he gets a big enough payment that makes other jurisdictions remove these cameras.
fhdkweig•27m ago
Hopefully they remove cops who abuse their powers. While I agree that victims require compensation, ultimately these payouts only hurt the taxpayers who have to cover for these cops who at worst just move to another town to do it again.
theturtletalks•35m ago
Was just reading into this and it’s infuriating. He was recording another person’s traffic stop in a parking lot. Once the stop was done, he walks to his car. The same officer goes to his car and “pulls him over.” The vet says that you can’t pull someone over in a private parking lot, that’s not a legal stop. Doesn’t matter, he’s arrested and car towed.

He’s kept in jail for 5 hrs before being released for it not being a legal stop just like the vet said. Then that officer tracked him thru flock over 100 times for some personal vendetta.

Toutouxc•29m ago
Infuriating, yes, but apparently getting shot for no reason is also quite popular. This sounds like the better deal.
scotty79•18m ago
Nobody offers you such deal. You get both.
braum•29m ago
sounds like an easy win for a prosecutor for felony stalking.

there needs to be more separation from prosecutors and cops. I know a lot of places now have prosecutors who are actively against cops, that is not what I mean.

the prosecutors are supposed to be unbiased and make decisions on evidence. we know they don't regardless of their political leaning. but that is the standard we (citizens) should hold them accountable. unfortunately there are too may bootlicking voters who just want to feel "safe" and have zero courage of their own even in the voting booth.

we need to stop giving agencies money based on stats. that is one cause to a lot of these problems. then the cops and agencies get all twisted and in a tissy when a tool that made stat pumping easier like right now the flock cameras.

FeepingCreature
layer8•29m ago
The fact that the victim is a Navy veteran should be immaterial here. People shouldn’t be any less upset if he wasn’t.
CobaltFire•18m ago
As a veteran I agree, with a significant caveat:

Generally those who support the police in general (especially those with the thin blue line American flag displayed somewhere) espouse support for veterans. The clash of a veteran operating legally with police operating illegally helps foster cognitive dissonance and disentangle these two institutions in their mind.

In other words these types of articles are helpful for causing those individuals to confront the issues in their belief structure.

I use them this way all the time with my parents, as they continue to insist that I (a retired Navy vet) should mindlessly support the police. They are not interested in the LONG history of those two populations clashing.

johnmlussier•28m ago
Don't remove the cameras - make sure they're used legally and bad apples don't ruin a good thing:

Four different places, four different children rescued by use of Flock cameras.

https://kfdm.com/news/local/flock-camera-teamwork-credited-w...

https://www.foxcarolina.com/2026/07/31/kidnapped-mother-son-...

https://www.whsv.com/2026/08/01/deputy-uses-flock-cameras-fi...

https://abc3340.com/news/local/moody-police-say-flock-camera...

Want to track latest on what flock cameras did? https://flockstopscrime.com

FeepingCreature•24m ago
Why not the other way around? First make sure the police department is capable of using them legally and reliably investigating abuse, then we can consider allowing them.
chuckadams•16m ago
> bad apples don't ruin a good thing

Literally the opposite of the popular saying. Yummy yummy boot.

wateralien•8m ago
wateralien•24m ago
Surely access to footage can be gated behind some sort of expedited digital court warrant?

I always think of that scene in Minority Report where 3 judges are conferenced in live when a “vision” arrived.

Because if used properly and lawfully these cameras can be useful to keep people safe. Including from the cops.

jonahx•10m ago
In practice, the odds overwhelmingly favor abuse. And even if the "proper and lawful" version was somehow achieved, it would require constant maintenance, security, and expensive oversight that would also be at risk of degenerating back into abuse.
sampullman•2m ago
Using minority report as an example of a good policing system is a bit unsettling.
spongebobstoes•20m ago
surveillance technology is not going away. we need to mitigate the downsides

what systems could be changed or created to prevent abuse of power?

PunchyHamster•19m ago
not installing them. Voting out anyone that does
atemerev•16m ago
Not enough. Preemptively passing laws that forbid this kind of mass surveillance. Like in Switzerland and other nice places.
NegativeK•12m ago
Making the possession of data this either illegal or too horribly cumbersome.

Flock is just an iteration, and getting rid of that brand won't fix it. And camera tracking of normal citizens is just an iteration -- not the underlying systemic issue that isn't being addressed.

The EU has GDPR. At this point, I want something stronger than that.

wateralien•14m ago
Video is useful in keeping people safe. Including from the cops. It’s about remaking the system to require court permission every time they access it, process and transparency.
colechristensen•11m ago
Give me freedom or give me death.

Police wearing body cameras has nothing to do with universal mass surveillance devices.

GiorgioG•18m ago
Flock is the most successful and well-known company doing this, however they’re not the only one. We need to be really careful to push back against the use of this technology as a whole and not fixate only on Flock. My town doesn’t use Flock, it uses another company’s tech…it’s no better! Don’t give the politicians an out.
edoceo•12m ago
Does that company also have three pounds of copper in their cameras, like Flock?
tostrstrudel•11m ago
https://flockonyourblock.com/
thangalin•7m ago
https://i.ibb.co/WWWYznHX/flock-future.png ;-)

See also: https://dave.autonoma.ca/blog/2019/06/06/web-of-knowledge/

•
24m ago
Blaming people trying to make money is so pointless. Change the law if you don't like what is happening.
a2ff6eeb0•19m ago
You're right. People trying to make money should be held legally accountable for the impact of their investments.
lokar•18m ago
The law is properly a limit on behavior, not a grant for acceptable behavior. It defines in which situations the state will ultimately employ its monopoly on violence to compel compliance.

This is a vastly smaller set of situations compared to what a health society would consider acceptable.

solenoid0937•15m ago
> Change the law

There is a huge gulf between what the law allows, and what being a decent person requires, and that gulf is called "being a scumbag."

We should not alter the law to prohibit everything in that gulf, because it would create an authoritarian society ripe for abuse, relying on controls like mass surveillance and the erasure of civil liberties.

However, we can and should name, shame, and socially/commercially outcast people who gleefully engage in the art of being a scumbag.

> trying to make money

It is indeed possible to make money without funding evil things.

notnullorvoid•12m ago
They are more than a accessory. You wouldn't say someone who funds a contract killing is merely an accessory to murder. VCs should likewise be considered as principal offenders, unless there is proof that the company was not transparent with the VCs.
bigyabai•8m ago
They're more than accessories, that nearly writes them off as being innocent looped-in bystanders. Y Combinator has a vested stake, they want to encourage a maximalist Flock-centric police force. They directly profit off police that are incapable of doing their job without extreme, abusive tools at their disposal.

You could argue that YC has more of a conscience than other investors like A16Z. But I'm not sure how much I believe that seeing Gary Tan's moral indifference towards startups that are the incarnate equivalent of the Torment Nexus.

bko•14m ago
> Rather, people doubt that they would belong to the over-policed parties

I don't think the people recording regular police interactions and refusing police instructions when stopped ever had any doubt about being over-policed.

> NSF funding from my relatives: "yes, funding has been illegally cut,..."

How is a cut illegal? Does any additional dollar in funding have to persist for all of eternity. For reference:

| FY | NSF appropriation |

| 1952 | $4M |

| 1960 | $153M |

| 1970 | $440M |

| 1980 | $992M |

| 1990 | $2.08B |

| 2000 | $3.91B |

| 2010 | $6.87B |

| 2020 | $8.21B |

| 2024 | $9.06B |

| 2025 | $9.06B |

| 2026 | $8.75B |

Forgeties79•13m ago
The cuts can be illegal if one doesn’t have the authority to cut it and/or violates the procedures required.
odo1242•11m ago
Government funding must be approved by Congress. If Congress already approved funding the NSF, then it has to be Congress that removes the funding.
bko•3m ago
Wrong again:

> The request proposes $4 billion for NSF, a 54% cut from the fiscal year 2026 enacted level. The amount echoes last year’s proposal of $3.9 billion, which Congress soundly rejected, funding the agency at $8.75 billion.

https://www.aip.org/fyi/trump-proposes-deep-research-cuts-ne...

GymInMeCricket•4m ago
My understanding is that congress chooses how much money should be distributed to each organization (e.g. NSF) each year, and preventing that money from being distributed is not legal. If I understand correctly, your table is of appropriation from Congress, not distribution[1]. I am open to being corrected if I am wrong.

[1] https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-026-02574-6

bastawhiz•10m ago
1. It's lack of accountability because nobody involved seems to have been fired or even disciplined.

2. It's lack of public oversight because an attorney filing a complaint about an unlawful arrest noticing a suspicious photograph from a month after the incident and then compelling the police to turn over evidence isn't oversight.

Accountability would have started with the officer, who knew very shortly after arresting the victim that the arrest was unlawful, being placed on leave almost immediately. But since it progressed to this point, accountability would look like literally any administrative action being taken whatsoever once the improper use was discovered.

Public oversight would have looked like that audit trail actually being read internally to determine whether there was a legitimate use for the searches in the first place. An audit trail that never gets looked at unless you're getting subpoenaed isn't "oversight".

•
25m ago
> we need to stop giving agencies money based on stats.

I think you just need to stop giving agencies money based on bad stats. Goodhart's Law is an extremely well-established effect. At the very least, crime rate should be monitored by a separate department.

aftbit•28m ago
This is disgusting, and I continue to argue that we should not excuse Flock Safety for this kind of misbehavior. They created the tech and marketed it to police departments without providing good protections against this kind of thing. Making something cheap and automatic changes how people use it. If this cop had to tail the guy around himself, maybe he wouldn't have done it.

But the far worse problem IMO is that this cop is dirty, corrupt, untrustworthy, and should be punished for stalking this man, and yet he surely will not be. Worst case, he might catch some administrative sanction or maybe be fired - he won't go to jail like he should for this misbehavior.

If you have 1 dirty cop and 100 who ignore his bad behavior, you actually have 101 dirty cops. We need a way to deal with this in our society without resorting to the absolutes of "defund the police" or "back the blue".

edoceo•14m ago
We have a way. Diligently prosecute the offender. Unclear why it's not used here.
Zigurd•7m ago
Prosecutors are insufficiently independent from cops. The job of prosecutor is often as political steppingstone. Prosecuting cops isn't compatible with that.
buzer•18m ago
> Then that officer tracked him thru flock over 100 times for some personal vendetta.

That's not quite accurate according to the article. It was actually worse: There were over 100 searches and some of them were done by officer in question, but some were done by other officers. This was due to lieutenant's order in connection with Jones' citizen complaint. So it wasn't just one officer abusing the system.

zapataband1•4m ago
so it was a department wide surveillance. almost like officers choose to engage in illegal behavior constantly to support each other.
colechristensen•11m ago
Pretty cut and dried civil liberties case there
bastawhiz•7m ago
I'm glad this guy will get his payout, but infuriated that the perpetrators will likely face no consequences, and the burden will fall on the public.
> make sure they're used legally and bad apples don't ruin a good thing

The unedited comment shows he used it correctly using “and” to mean “so that”.

colechristensen•14m ago
Surveillance tech very much can be and is going away in plenty of places

321 down, Dallas: https://thehill.com/policy/technology/6065838-dallas-police-...

150 down, El Paso: https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/articles/news/public-safe...

ALL on state roadways, Florida: https://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/state/2026/09/01/whic...

A dozen agencies cancelling Flock in Wisconsin https://www.fox6now.com/news/flock-camera-pushback-fond-du-l...

Zigurd•9m ago
Anything can be made to go away.
whynotmaybe•8m ago
Maybe have something on the plate that prevents reading from certain angles? There was a ticket dismissed in Quebec a few years ago for an "unreadable plate" because the car had a bike rack hiding the plate but the ticket had the plate number on it so it was not unreadable
zapataband1•5m ago
We need an actual democracy(not rich people's puppets). In this country almost 75% of voting population are against the war in Iran and yet most of congress supports that war.

Flock used >100 times to track veteran who recorded traffic stop

https://reason.com/2026/09/02/wisconsin-cops-used-flock-over-100-times-to-track-a-navy-veteran-af...
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