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What will our economic future look like?

https://www.anthropic.com/institute/econ-scenarios
68•oumua_don17•1h ago

Comments

righthand•41m ago
Hopefully free from the burden of LLM companies.
yodon•39m ago
I try to never be that guy who complains about the way a web page scrolls, but this page is completely unreadable.
elliotec•39m ago
You’d think the most powerful AI could make a website that doesn’t completely break usability by destroying scroll.
129876•39m ago
What a reversal from Amodei's doom marketing!

This is of course a slop paper with vague assumptions and equations that no single human economist will ever read. The messaging is "it will not be so bad", in line with the recent Economist piece.

We are ready for the midterm elections!

dkdbejwi383•38m ago
> Ultimately, what the economy looks like in 2030 depends on many factors, like what AI can do, and how companies and workers choose to adopt it.

So the answer is basically "beats me lol"

whobre•13m ago
And honestly that’s the only real answer. Predicting future is a fool’s errand.
altcognito•38m ago
Good or bad, nothing ages as poorly as economic or market predictions.
dgellow•37m ago
> Like any economic model, this one has limits. For example, we did not include scenarios where humanity develops hyper-capable robots.

I didn’t see the scenario “what if we (Anthropic) are wrong about the value of AI”. Which IMHO is the most important one to consider given it is the blind spot pretty much all the AI labs have. What if the economic impact is negative? I don’t understand how you can study such a topic without considering the risk of being wrong, not in magnitude but in kind.

lp0_on_fire•30m ago
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it."
wing-_-nuts•29m ago
I have no doubt that AI will massively transform society. That cat is out of the bag. It took decades for electricity, and then computers to change society, but this is the first technology where the average person can simply describe the problem they're trying to solve and it will at least attempt to help them solve it.

I very. much. doubt. that the trillions of dollars spent on AI will have a positive ROI for most companies in the race. It's all well and good to have the latest fable, but if some chinese company is hosting a cheap open weights model that's only 6mo behind at a tiny fraction of the price, you're gonna get your lunch eaten.

keybored•16m ago
Yet another IT that will help the average person/democratize something, like the Internet and so on.

Over three thousand comment boxes agree that the cat is out of the bag. No moats.

TheOtherHobbes
oxqbldpxo•30m ago
It's been 4 years. Nothing meaningful.
urieiejr•29m ago
IPos this year meaningful AF
Squarex•21m ago
Has your job not be completely changed? Have you not noticed a worse job market?
nobleach•12m ago
I'm not sure I'd call that "meaningful" in the sense of "trillions of dollars and datacenters built all over the place" meaningful. Yes, I can now tell Claude to build a feature and it often does an okay job. I can ship faster. I can't tell you that it's worth spending the true cost of AI for that however. What'll be nice is 5 years of data showing that companies are raking in more money because they shipped more features. We haven't seen that yet.

Now, if Claude starts synthesizing more drugs that can help those with diseases (like OpenAI has just done) we might be trending in the right direction. For now, all I see is squirrels water-skiing. And while that's great... it's not meaningful.

simianwords•10m ago
there's a popular misconception that AI is so extremely costly that when the world finally comes to terms with it, we will stop using AI and things will die down. i'm sorry to burst your bubble: this won't happen.

the inference cost of AI has been dropping ~5x over every 6 months. AI today is around 100x cheaper than 2 years ago. it will continue to get cheap.

mentos•29m ago
Prices will fall to their raw material costs?
analog31•21m ago
Raw material cost of labor is subsistence. Adam Smith pointed this out.
epolanski•29m ago
Judging the quality of this blogpost/presentation, AI is centuries away from being able to replace humans.
ghm2199•26m ago
Are you guys feeling all high and mighty doing all these predictions? I think the money they are spending on trying to inform policy could be better spent on getting all major labs together with the government, and making sure that

1. At least 10% of your net spend is on safety and harm mitigation before you accelerate yourselves into doing real harm to real people tomorrow.

2. Pause all AI enhancement until a proper mechanistic study can be done by a working group funded by you all to understand how AI model Safety can be enforced by something less lame than a Constitution/Spec.

JacobiX•25m ago
> As the nurse incorporates AI into her job, the nurse is able to oversee and accomplish more. She can spend more time talking with patients and helping them understand diagnoses. Productivity increases.

This feels economically naïve.. If AI lets one nurse do the work that previously required two, the default pressure in a cost-driven system is not "great, now nurses can spend twice as long with patients" It is "great, now we can run the same operation with fewer nurses"

slfnflctd•19m ago
Our culture and the socioeconomic structures it reinforces will not change easily.

More than ever, I feel we need both grassroots activism and key players at the top of the hierarchy. Otherwise, it is all too obvious where most of the rewards from increased productivity will go. The wealth hoarding has got to be curtailed.

alphawhisky•16m ago
Call me crazy, but maybe our healthcare shouldn't be a "cost driven system". Maybe that was the issue before AI. But hell, what do I know?
simianwords•12m ago
> This feels economically naïve..

not really. almost all technological processes have increased the quality of the service.

JacobiX•8m ago
Air travel is a good counterexample here: technology made airlines far more productive, but much of the gain went into lower staffing, higher throughput, and cost cutting not a better passenger experience
orange_joe•24m ago
I think it looks like the labs front running everyone’s work, freeloading on the last bits of human intelligence to ensure their owners a place as our masters.
keybored•22m ago
> [we don’t know]

I haven’t forgot capitalist euphoria from 2023 about cutting worker power off at the root. That’s all these AI Cretins want. Well, that and an unnerving enthusiasm for personifying their AI Golems (Anthr. in particular here).

Sorry to poo poo a post about AI company prompting their underlings to prompt out visualizations.

KoolKat23•22m ago
Definitely a bit of positive framing. My big take aways, either stagnant wages or significant paycuts for knowledge workers and overall decreases in employment rates on all scenarios. Worst of all...

That's only forecasting out to 2030.

skinfaxi•16m ago
In the US at least deaths will outpace births by 2030 so maybe a declining employment rate isn't as bad as it might seem in the long-term.
KoolKat23•12m ago
Good point, perhaps it may be a saving grace. I note they don't comment much on the allocation of said capital. Might be too bitter a pill for most to swallow.
grantpitt•21m ago
Feels like we're going to read a blog soon enough that mirrors Wendell Berry's opening to The Unsettling of America:

The commission said, according to an article in the Louisville Courier-Journal, that the country’s biggest farm problem was a surplus of farmers: “. . . the technological advances in agriculture have so greatly reduced the need for manpower that too many people are trying to live on a national farm income wholly inadequate for them.” The proposed solutions were to find “better opportunities for the farm people,” “a more comprehensive national employment policy,” “retraining programs,” “improved general educational facilities,” etc. Both the commission and the writer of the article had obviously taken for granted that the lives and communities of small farmers then still on the farm—and those of the 25 million who had left the farm since 1940—were of less value than “technological advances in agriculture.” There seemed also to be no official doubt that adequate solutions were to be found in government supplied “opportunities,” facilities, and programs. Reading that article, I realized that my values were not only out of fashion, but under powerful attack. I saw that I was a member of a threatened minority. That is what set me off.

meindnoch•11m ago
Btw, Wendell Berry died 10 days ago.
alphawhisky•20m ago
>We study how AI is reshaping the economy because we’re committed to ensuring that this transition is beneficial for society, including workers.

Is it just me, or does their choice of identifying "workers" specifically seem a little peculiar? For me, it reads like "We're committed to making segregation beneficial for everyone, including minorities!"

sheepcow•7m ago
Hmmm, I wonder what they'll do if they discover the transition is bad for workers? Pack up and go home I reckon!
Toutouxc•20m ago
I like how the least optimistic scenario is simply LLMs not making a difference, instead of the very real possibility of them damaging education, destroying people’s attention spans and their ability to learn, eroding trust within societies, increasing the wealth inequality and leading to class wars.

I believe the net effect of LLMs is, at this point, firmly negative, and it’s going to take years until they start making up for the mess they’ve created.

vouaobrasil•14m ago
I don't think they can make up for any mess. Because even if LLMs bring about a lack of scarcity across all domains, human beings will be alienated because indvidual differences and skills won't matter any more so we'll have to be genetically engineered to like that sort of future. I don't think a stable and healthy society can coexist with LLMs at all.
Dlemlo•12m ago
How?

Whatever an LLM can do today, will not come back as is tomorrow.

The biggest issue the LLM today: It kills all the small and niche things. The things were we fit all the other people is getting destroyed. You know the guy who makes websites, the fiverr blender person provoding some basic modelling tasks.

You will just ask AI or AI will use your tool or AI will just produce it for you.

detectivestory•8m ago
LLMs themselves most definitely will not do that. You can still learn how to make a barrel, but not many people do.. The real fear is the destruction/hiding of public data/resources (which has already been happening for years)
api•
blooalien•19m ago
One guy will die with "all the things" and the rest of us will just die.
amelius•19m ago
I just wonder when we will see 8ft tall humanoid robots walking through the streets.
anthonyrstevens•17m ago
I'm going to say 2050 in the United States; 2040 in some conflict zone.
Waterluvian•18m ago
Those with the money and influence have always been in conflict with the masses that actually make the economy run. They would love nothing more than to do away with that problem. It allows them to control the terms of the economy.
28304283409234•17m ago
> Think of a day in the life of a nurse You can think of any job as a bundle of tasks that someone does. She does rounds to check on a sick patient. She draws blood.

Why is the nurse a she?

lbreakjai•10m ago
About 90% of nurses are women.
ang_cire•16m ago
> The result: the nurse’s job changes

> As the nurse incorporates AI into her job, the nurse is able to oversee and accomplish more. She can spend more time talking with patients and helping them understand diagnoses. Productivity increases.

Except what actually happens is that the patient contact time stays the same, but then the added productivity is used to justify fewer on-staff nurses.

sscaryterry•15m ago
There we go. Except, all business owners, private or public, will tell you that this isn't the case. :)
detectivestory•13m ago
that didn't happen with self-checkout tills in supermakets...
leto_ii•10m ago
Wdym? self-checkout definitely lead to fewer supermarket workers being employed.
heaney-555•4m ago
Actually, it has been essentially balanced out by a greater need for behind-the-shelves workers to pack and load orders for online/app delivery and eCommerce orders.

This is how the economy often works. The loss of one kind of job to technology lets the business grow by using the same number of staff, or often even more, to serve new opportunities/markets/products/services.

rootusrootus•
josefritzishere•15m ago
So far LLMs seem to be a dead end technology. The work product is so poor that it can't effectively replace workers as advertised. If it was priced to margin it'd be more expensive than humans as well. It's objectively a failure.
Dlemlo•14m ago
I think we have a real problem because we know what we still need to build and as soon as it is build, it will work.

Software development for example is enhanced with running your claude locally.

But lets be honest, the right way to adjust 'project' is by writing some spec in a text field as an input, letting the ai do whatever it wants, having expert ais make sure its secure, then you do the last review and its done.

What do we need for this? A full end to end integration. Its just something we need to build, nothing we need to invent.

The nurse example is the same. We only need to build the computer end to end flow and plugin AI in the right spots and finetune for country specific requirements.

The industry is building this 'agentic layer' today. The Hyperscaler are building this layer too.

There is a golden phase were we will build all of this and were we cleanup old stuff and were we adjust with the current model capabilities and change systems and this will take a little bit of time, but the bottom line is already loosing left and right.

The Blender support from Fable and Astra? Probably kills a lot of peoples jobs on fiverr.

The small software someone needs? Got already killed by earlier models. Just a few days ago some architect (never written software) talked about how he vibecoded some tool for tracking working hours.

Man even a basic website was expesnive to build just 2 years ago.

The smaller, easier and better the code base, the easier it is to remove people from this.

The software market in China is imploding and we will also see budget adjustments to move away from consultants and move them into AI Token budgets. We probably reached peak software development.

ozgung•13m ago
Finding 4 is a must-read:

> Finding 4: Labor vs. capital share: The pie will grow, but a larger share might go to capital

> Today, of each dollar the economy produces, about 60¢ goes to workers and 40¢ go to capital.

Modest scenario: 40.6% to capital in 2030 (labor share down 0.6 points)

Substantial scenario: 43.9% to capital in 2030 (labor share down 3.9 points)

Extreme scenario: 54.8% to capital in 2030 (labor share down 14.8 points)

So all the growth goes to capital. For knowledge workers: substantial unemployment and declining wages. For other workers: wages may increase on paper, but not really for actual purchasing power.

Very dystopic indeed.

sarmadgulzar•13m ago
> At the individual level, it means coders and call service center agents may have to switch to jobs like electrician and nurse, which are less exposed to AI.

Just imagine!

vxxzy•10m ago
It would be interesting to know what percentage of global inference is spent on projects/problems that would otherwise "wait"/"decay" (if generative ai wasn't a thing). Or maybe the question is: What percentage of global inference is spent on cleaning up and migrating old systems? "New" vs "Old". The decisions I make today can now incorporate what I once termed as "nice to have" when developing a sytem.
quietraster•7m ago
the make your own predictions part is a nice touch. how sensitive are the outcomes to the capability assumption
jongjong•6m ago
I'm disturbed by the state of the world and economy.

Before AI, my worldview was that our monetary system was concentrating wealth in a negative-sum game; essentially; every year, taking wealth from 100 people, destroying half the underlying value and giving the remaining value with a 2x nominal markup to 1 rich person who is already spending more than they can physically spend and so they won't realize that the 2x amount of wealth they got on paper only buys them a quarter of the stuff compared to the previous decade. They won't know how frothy their wealth is until they start selling large quantities of their stocks.

In such system, you could hit record nominal GDP numbers every year while simultaneously destroying the real economy. This was my view of the economy before AI.

Now I think AI will deliver real efficiency gains but also, it provides a convenient narrative to explain why people might be losing jobs in a way which distracts from much bigger systemic issues which existed prior to AI.

My negative-sum economy example with 'booming GDP' is possible without AI and possible even if net economic value is being destroyed. So basically we won't be able to tell if AI is actually providing real economic value or if it's just more of the same wealth concentration in the centre and depletion from the periphery dynamics going on... Because both would look the same.

I suppose if we see people losing jobs permanently and workers in other sectors aren't seeing wage increases, that may be the most reliable indicator we have.

Dlemlo•5m ago
The biggest critisism from my side is not how AI will take over jobs but I believe we will see peak of certain things.

Creating images (menues, flyers, whatever) became so cheap, that we reached peak graphi design GDP generation. This will go down.

Software development for complex systems is enhanced but not yet solved. But a lot of small software development stuff for sure. We reached Peak Software Development and this GDP will go down, not up.

stego-tech•3m ago
Man I wanted to dunk on this, but it’s honestly not terrible. Their predictions - while still firmly rooting for the extreme results - feel more grounded. I also appreciate the little simulator where I could plugin my own predictions (echoing many here, that AI won’t amplify productivity/lift standards so much as replace workers by shitty bosses), and that it seems to caution that, yep, most of these gains will trickle up given current incentives.

Where I remain resoundingly annoyed is how useless this is. It’s pure ass-covering by Anthropic ahead of an IPO, victim-blaming the populace for the outcomes of decisions made by Anthropic leadership and the investor class. Forgive the grisly analogy, but it’s akin to a rapist telling you “only you can stop this” mid-violence: Anthropic could have chosen to allocate more of its capital to reforms that benefit the populace, but they’ve chosen instead to focus on personal wealth instead via this IPO and for-profit rented access schemes.

It’s nauseating. Their actions still paint a picture of greed and exploitation rather than building a better tomorrow for everyone with AI, and the fact their PR puff pieces keep getting wallpapered up here is gross.

•
14m ago
Which is only Stage 1. Stage 2 is where you have a Cambrian explosion of models all competing for compute, and not long after that for robotic extension into Real World.

Stage 3 gets hard to imagine from here. Maybe there will be permanent hyperevolution. Maybe One Model to Rule Them All will appear.

Either way, I don't see how Economics as We Know It can continue to exist. That includes all of capitalism and almost certainly all of politics.

Successful AGI with robotic support means a post-scarcity economy where AGI's understanding of physics sets the limits, not politics or economics.

But the post-scarcity element won't be evenly distributed. And it's not remotely impossible that humans won't be invited to the party.

We can't even be sure that AGI won't have a less limited understanding of physics than we do.

There's going to be enjoyable irony in watching Altman et all getting their lunches eaten by the thing they've created.

But - realistically - it probably won't last long.

kakacik•10m ago
Thats the big question, its doing a lot of good and a lot of harm in the same time.

So, is it 2 steps ahead and 1 step back, or 1 step ahead and 2 steps back (or any numerical variant of those)?

People with actual power in this are too involved and greedy to care about objective answer and TBH I don't trust them to put some higher good before their personal wealth and power and ego trip, capitalism ain't built on long term responsibility towards greater topics like future and wellbeing of mankind.

Plus we know from WWII atomic bomb development how utterly clueless, naive and out of touch with reality geeks doing something powerful can be. I see exactly same scenario being played out right now with llms.

Anyway, I am over-tired with all llm topics and frenzy folks (especially here), I'll better spend rest of the day preparing for a serious challenge in form of big multipitch climb in western Switzerland (Mirroir d'Argentine for anybody in same craft). Thats life I care about and makes me happy and fulfilled.

Hansappreciator•28m ago
These aren't genuine studies, but are instead marketing materials that resemble studies.
throw10920•28m ago
Wrong in the sense that it has less of an impact than they are claiming (e.g. "AI is in an overvalued hype bubble") or less (AI is going to be even more transformative than the hypers say)?

In the former case, isn't it just business as usual? (well, with a huge, nasty recession - but the economy at least continues on in some recognizable form)

It makes sense to me to focus on weird possible futures if we already have the "happy path" somewhat known and barely under control.

Dlemlo•10m ago
Based on the current quality of AI/LLMs, this a very weird take tbh?

What are your points?

The value of AI is real and AI already is responsible for people getting fired or no additional jobs.

Ask basic graphics designers, website developers and co. Ask educational book writers or developer advocates.

buellerbueller•3m ago
True, but you ignore the financialization and enshittification that typically follows the technological advances. The tech processes you cite don't inherently make money for the people who developed the technology.
cucumber3732842•4m ago
>great, now we can run the same operation with fewer nurses"

And outside of industries with government enforced perversions of simple "supply and demand" forces (we're not talking Nth level effects here) this means more access to the service or lower prices or both.

6m ago
There's not nearly enough mention in these discussions of the real villain behind most of the negative cultural, social, and cognitive effects of things like social media: addiction engineering.

AI will be a net positive unless companies start optimizing it for "time in app" or "time on site" or other "engagement" (addiction) metrics.

Every time that's been done, the result has been a nightmare for everything but those KPIs (of course). Service degrades, discourse degrades, everything becomes toxic and addictive and destructive.

3m ago
[delayed]
chris_money202•9m ago
I don't have the numbers on this, but if you look at per-capita self checkout probably had some effect.

Our population is increasing which means we need jobs to be increasing at same rates. The effect on supermarkets is they get more customers as population increases but they are able to lower the relative number of staff per customer.

simianwords•13m ago
how come productivity increase actually led to increase in quality in almost all cases?

internet/digitasion for doctors for example.

chris_money202•5m ago
I think this is only true if the # of doctors available per patient stays the same. If productivity increases, you can have fewer doctors available while providing the same quality of care.

So, quality doesn't necessarily increase in all cases.

bpodgursky•13m ago
> but then the added productivity is used to justify fewer on-staff nurses

Lower staffing levels per unit of care performed makes medical care cheaper for patients. If the goal of a healthcare system is to make healthcare more accessible (rather than be a jobs program), that's a success.

lbreakjai•9m ago
If, and that's a huge if, the savings are actually passed on to the customers rather than the capital owners.
leto_ii•8m ago
> Lower staffing levels per unit of care performed makes medical care cheaper for patients.

Based on how neoliberal capitalism tends to work it will simply lead to more profits for hospitals etc.

pasquinelli•7m ago
> Lower staffing levels per unit of care performed makes medical care cheaper for patients.

yeah yeah, sure sure

jackdaniel•5m ago
Lowering prices or raising wages due to increased productivity is not a given, and often does not follow. There is more to pocket by shareholders though.
teeray•4m ago
[delayed]
crossroadsguy•9m ago
[delayed]
cman1444•4m ago
Except, so far, this isn't actually what happens. I listened to Moody's "Inside Economics" podcast with Ramp's Chief Economist, and they observe that companies who adopt AI intensively actually hire 10% more people. Also, this article from The Economist suggests that evidence is mixed-to-positive for long term employment, while short term data center buildout is extremely positive for jobs. Paywalled unfortunately.

https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2026/09/04/t...

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