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Toxic Experts

https://nedbatchelder.com/blog/201711/toxic_experts
24•luu•1h ago

Comments

33a•34m ago
Weirdly anti-intellectual. I'm not sure what the subtle nitpick the expert brought up, but from reading the comments I gathered that they correctly pointed out that appending to a vector is merely amortized O(1), not truly worst case constant time. This is actually kind of a big deal and is an important distinction to make. As a corollary, it means you can't just use a vector as a constant time sequence data structure in a real time application unless you preallocate it.
kirth_gersen•23m ago
I didn't get that from it. This is just venting from a teacher irritated by someone being toxic about something they made to inform people. Not sure I'd have named the person that was the "inspiration" for this. At best it probably won't change a lifetime of learned behavior, and at worst they will take glee in 15 min of fame.
yorwba•17m ago
The comments are preserved here: https://web.archive.org/web/20171108220351/https://nedbatche... It's a more subtle nitpick about how amortized runtime analysis is done.
rpkla•6m ago
Interesting that the holier-than-thou people immediately try to dox the evil pyon.
werla•29m ago
This is from 2017 and didn't really age well. Posts like these prepared the ground for the takeover of CPython by non-experts, narcissistic bureaucrats and corporations, all of whom pretend to represent the unwashed masses. As many politicians from Pol Pot to Mussolini have done.

That is always what happens when you get rid of the experts. Ruthless mediocrity takes over!

_dain_•21m ago
>An anonymous coward named “pyon” said I should be ashamed. They pointed out a detail of algorithmic analysis that I had not mentioned. It’s a detail that I had never encountered before. I think it’s an interesting detail, but not one that needed to be included.

on the one hand it's a nasty thing to say he should be "ashamed" for not mentioning it. on the other, it is a little strange he hadn't come across the "amortized O(whatever)" concept before. esp if doing a talk about it..

neither of them come across well here.

0x20cowboy•16m ago
This describes just about everyone who works at a FANNG company or in the valley. The system rewards acting like this so it’s better to not get bent out of shape about it just focus on actually intelligent people.
SomeHacker44•5m ago
I may be one of the folks who work at a FANNG company, but honestly I have seen almost none of this in my years there. On the contrary, I have seen mostly experts who are thoughtful, bright and open to sharing their knowledge and experience. Some can improve interpersonal skills, but so could the populace at large. I have seen more, nicer, smarter and engaging people here than almost any other genre of business I have worked at, e.g. Wall Street, tech startups, etc.
tpoacher•15m ago
If anything, this sounds like a toxic person trying to project or provoke.

It reads like a character assassination piece superficially presented as nuanced philosophy, and we don't even have the actual exchange, only this person's account of it, which we are meant to trust in terms of both wording and demonstrated intent.

"If you have nothing kind to say" as the quote goes ...

NoDodgeQuestion•4m ago
https://web.archive.org/web/20171108220351/https://nedbatche...
eviks•8m ago
> Points of correctness are useless without points of connection.

There are two points in a connection, and one way to sever it is to follow author's advice to "ignore them". Or you could try to learn and maybe even engage.

(also, the "non-coward" way would be to actually link to the comment so that we could try to understand how toxic / irrelevant expert peons are)

rvz•8m ago
> They pointed out a detail of algorithmic analysis that I had not mentioned. It’s a detail that I had never encountered before. I think it’s an interesting detail, but not one that needed to be included.

Who cares? We have a clear term for this and it is called "point scoring".

Just give the rest of the group further reading material if they want to study it in their own time and to not talk over minute details.

So just dismiss them with a "Great point" remark and tell everyone else to read the reading list later.

Job done.

rpkla•7m ago
Dan Luu, the submitter, has not been kind to Ed Zitron lately. I suppose the allowed dose of "toxicity" is proportional to one's popularity in the tech world.
llm_nerd•7m ago
An important life lesson: Some people are assholes all of the time; All people are assholes some of the time. Is it really such a big deal?

Maybe someone was having a bad day. Maybe this is an argument they had with a peer and it triggered a peeve. Whatever.

Tangential, but if I had to rank toxicity, someone going overboard at being a pedant in the easily censored comments under a blog post ranks far below overreacting and clutching pearls to try to pillorize and rile a torch mob, hoping to put them on blast and make them pay for their transgression. The latter is significantly more toxic, and it is what absolutely destroys communities.

ivansmf•4m ago
Whatever you think of the original discussion, I want to share two lessons I learned, in the hopes they'll help someone: (1) never wrestle a pig. You both end up covered in mud and the pig likes it; and (2) if you're trying to teach or share, argue for the audience. If you try to level with the antagonistic person, people watching from outside will have a hard time differentiating you from them. If the response is not about helping others, well, my sarcastic side will advise you to argue as much as possible with strangers on the Internet. That's what life is for.

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