Now, people have been hacking the RFHUB for a while but it's been a fairly exclusive thing. I also doubt that software updates to the RFHUB are actually signed. I suspect that the next couple of years will see any remaining nonsense worked around by LLM-aided reverse engineering.
Are you familiar with lock-picking?
But, I can use a credit card style key if I want. They are only $40 for a pair. I can program them in various ways. https://shop.tesla.com/product/key-card
I had to pay additional money to the automotive locksmith to put that in, on top of the $120 CAD base rate.
And, less than two months later, the new fob's battery died! I had a bunch of CR2032's around, which I had gotten cheaply; but insult to injury, you know?
Not just a missing transponder, but a shitty old/used battery on its last legs.
It'll be "fun" if your replacement battery also lasts under two months.
Obviously not an option if you lost the key, but when my Toyota keyfobs got really worn (button membranes breaking and exposing the underlying microswitch), I discovered that you can avoid the fuss and/or expense of reprogramming the keys by buying replacement key fob shells and moving the circuit board from the old key. Wasn't any harder than changing the key fob battery..
Your iPhone has more sophisticated security measures inside of it along with an entire computer capable of playing relatively recent AAA games and it costs less than some of these keys.
The actual answer is that dealerships make their money on service and demand that the manufacturers throw them bones like this.
This is also true for a manual transmission and no-chip design. I basically want a freshly manufactured old-school Jeep.
Capitalist fail!
Company A netting $1 from 50 happy customers is nowhere near as profitiable as Company B netting $10 from 10 miserable customers. Consider that Company A and B also compete for capital and manufacturing capability and such, not just customers. The market has chosen Company B as the most efficient vehicle to extract wealth from customers.
In fact the more Company B (and companies like it) succeed, the more capital they collectively soak up and the fewer competitors they'll have. The less leverage these miserable customers will have.
It's like the market-driven spread of some technology, like shipping containers. Except instead of a cost-cutting technology it's a price-inflating technology. Like movie theaters choosing to add massive markups to their snack bar. If you're a movie theater and you don't extort your customers for snacks, you have to raise ticket prices or lower profitability and you can't make ends meet or be as capital efficient as competitors.
I think there is some solution to this that isn't just heavy-handed regulation that companies will shoot loopholes in and run laps around. Maybe some type of stakeholder capitalism where consumers have more power than shareholders. Crowdsupply is one such example.
Insurance company offers a new key for $100.
I said I lost it and paid $100.
I considered buying a Chinese key programmer on aliexpress for $200, or going to a black market key programmer that would do it for $100 but I was lazy.
Looking forward to having a car that only needs Apple Car Key in the future.
The dealerships like making $200+ per fob program and the automotive companies like selling $$$ hardware + software licenses to be able to do so.
It's also likely that a processor that can only do rolling codes but no RNG or AES operations is cheaper and has longer battery life. Car model lifecycles are very long so the choice of components even for ~2018 cars might be using parts form 2013 (my guess). And auto companies are probably only considering parts purpose built for their industry due to supply and price guarantees.
If it wasn't for insurance companies refusing to insure some models with insecure fobs, the issue would likely be much worse today.
This was a funny sentence to read. I'm reading this article to kill time while, in another window, I'm on a chat with customer service for my credit card because my credit card stopped working in my digital wallet. I've been trying to resolve the issue for weeks.
So I'm glad my car doesn't require anything like that.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kia_Challenge for what happens if you skip the immobilizer
It would be reasonable to have something like key and pin (similar to chip and pin[1]), where you have to enter a PIN and have the physical key to start the car. Or have a fingerprint reader. Or use the alertness camera for face authentication.
Since nearly everyone has a phone, and that phone is likely paired to the car, it should also be sufficient to sense that the bluetooth of the phone has paired to the car and at a sufficiently strong signal strength (and is not a new pairing).
The idea that the key itself must embed cryptographic hardware is a historical assumption that should be reconsidered.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMV#Chip_and_PIN_versus_chip_a...
If I were to guess, how we let cars turn into computers probably started with fuel injection. The same embedded system that controls the timing of injectors (in response to numerous sensors) and variable valve timing and whatnot.
From there, feature creep.
Next thing you know, you're getting an engine code due to forgetting to put the gas cap back on at the pump (paying money to reset that because it's still years before consumer OBD2 dongles become available) and it goes downhill from there.
:)
I don't recall the exact answer, but Technology Connections did a video on this very question 2 months ago.
Engines haven't been fully mechanical in decades - and that's good! 2.4M 1mo ago 58:45 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KoeY54M5VA
josephcsible•23h ago
JohnFen•21h ago
The scale starts at crazytown prices and just gets increasingly insane from there.
ronnier•1h ago
moduspol•58m ago
Beats the heck out of paying hundreds of dollars to leave the car at a dealership for a few days to get a new key. And as you said: even then, this is just for the key that I need to use if my phone died or I just bought a new one.
ronnier•53m ago
zamadatix•15m ago
It's nice more cars just let you use your phone in the first place but like you say most want that physical backup and then get gouged replacing it even by the example of "great" pricing that does everything right. This is "how much could a bananna cost, $10?" except we're fine with it because it's for one of the most expensive things you own and nobody is going to not get a car because keys are marked up.
qwerpy•56m ago
Astronaut3315•16m ago
rootusrootus•52m ago
matsemann•17m ago
dave78•9m ago
That said, the increased security of modern keys plus the remote control capabilities definitely adds some value.