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The 'europoors' rants reflect an American insecurity

https://davekeating.substack.com/p/the-europoors-rants-reflect-an-american
31•snowpid•2h ago

Comments

asdfasgasdgasdg•1h ago
The degree to which Europeans are less wealthy than the US, and the degree to which that gap has been growing, is important, and no amount of rhetoric will change that. Of course calling them Europoors is rude and serious people should not do it. But the policy differences are not pure upside for Europe and there are serious open questions about the sustainability of the European social compact, especially in France. If anything Europe is in a significantly worse position now than 15 years ago.
snowpid•1h ago
ok and? The article is about some Americans care obsessively about Europe and their weird criticism. And you do find this behaviour in EVERY discussion regarding EU tech policy in HN. Its very annoying.
bigstrat2003•40m ago
> The article is about some Americans care obsessively about Europe and their weird criticism. And you do find this behaviour in EVERY discussion regarding EU tech policy in HN. Its very annoying.

It goes both ways. I can't tell you how many comments sections I've seen where someone goes out of his way to diss the US, even though that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. I agree that it's nasty behavior when Americans do it in the other direction too, I just wanted to point out that there's hate-slinging all around.

ifwinterco•56m ago
Quality of life is still better in Europe though, that's not cope it's just a fact.

I agree Europe has real issues that Europeans should acknowledge and don't, but americans' quantity brains are funny - to americans if it can't be measured, it doesn't exist.

Really sad way to live, unfortunately it's infecting Europe and especially the UK as well

mns•54m ago
Europe might be in certain aspects worse, but the thing is we need to deal with wars and their consequences, as they are closer, the US only starts and feeds off them, maybe less now, due to incompetence and general no longer behind the scenes corruption.

Besides all of this, I’d rather be poor in Europe than in the US.

stormking•22m ago
That's because, for the past 15 years (at least), we've been under attack.
jaggs•1h ago
Hell yeah, America...!
charamis•47m ago
The middle class in the west collectively has lost purchasing power the last decades, lately that has started to become too apparent, and on both sides of the Atlantic now, there are people who try to deny it. It’s sad no matter if they’re Americans or Europeans
dragontamer•33m ago
I think back to the World Cup with a unified social media message about how awesome American air conditioning is.

Like, that meme was astroturfed right? People in Europe don't talk like that or act like that.

And we also had foreigners from all around the world (Japanese, Korean, etc. etc.) come and be all Costco is amazing or other tidbits of pro-Americanism.

I dunno, something just felt off by it. There's clearly something going on and it doesn't feel completely natural.

It's fine to like America and be patriotic and all. But for it all to strike at the same time with extremely similar messaging? Even memes had more diverse concepts than what happened.

We are IMO in the age of AI boosted memes where people are trying to form large scale reality distortion fields.

dannyobrien•18m ago
I think a lot of strange cultures talking to the rest of the world can feel like that -- especially as it's not necessary how those cultures talk to themselves. And visitors to a country often have a fairly predictable set of wow! (or wtf?) moments. So when there's a moment like a World Cup or Olympics you just see a lot of simultaneous commenting about stuff that isn't usually in the discourse. A lot of UK people (I'm British) fall into a fairly united pattern when addressing strangers about their country: talking up the NHS, queuing, the full english breakfast. Visitors to Britain will love double-decker buses, funny politeness and euphemism, everyday comedy etc, etc.

The air conditioning, Costco, sports complexes. even things like a gun show, or a silly Texas parade, are very often what tourists *individually talk about when they visit the US for the first time.

cucumber3732842•11m ago
My office has a routine for entertaining foreign employees who come over for onboarding and that's basically it. Costco, gun range, a restaurant specifically known for it's huge portions, etc.
user982
mindslight•30m ago
This post is an awkward read because it carries an outdated tacit assumption that the bulk of this posting activity is organic engagement - as opposed to merely some new flavor of shit being thrown at the wall by bot-propagandists, which then happens to resonate with some small segment of strung out people. The analysis still does apply for why those specific people are drawn to such a refrain, but the situation lacks the weight of a cultural trend implied by "tells us more about them than it does about us". Rather it is better off seen as a subculture - there is no counterveiling force of people disagreeing with the narrative and arguing against it (en masse), because most simply ignore it and go elsewhere.
7777777phil•28m ago
lovley topic - which I was digging into a bit lately [1] - from an economic standpoint one way to think about the US-Europe income gap is to separate output per hour from GDP per person.

[1] https://philippdubach.com/posts/us-europe-productivity-worki...

pessimizer•25m ago
This is an "argument" between relative elites. Both Europoors and USAian-poors don't spend time on the internet caring about each other. Most Europoors don't even speak English, and USAian-poors don't speak anything but English, so they literally couldn't communicate easily until recently, and they still haven't found a reason to.

That being said, this is largely European cope. Europeans are falling into the toilet. But the Brits they're arguing with are British elites who spend most of their time online pretending to be American Britishly (which amounts to being rude while using US slang), and the Americans they are arguing with are dimwitted xenophobes in debt up to their eyeballs and just pretending to have money. American elites (i.e. people with assets who only work as a hobby) are also doing very, very well, but they don't care about arguing with Europeans online. They think of Europe as fancy and fashion, and avoid most direct contact with Europeans (except expats and when they're on vacation) in order not to ruin that image.

But I have to repeat that Europeans are absolutely delusional. The future is looking terrible for them, and their elites feel like their only hope is war with Russia. They feel like they can regulate and judge things that the world is accomplishing around and without them. They've been coddled (by US arms and political meddling) into an unearned sense of superiority over a generation or two that is leading them into disaster. They have beautiful infrastructure and a big healthy, educated population, and they're losing simply because they let themselves be ruled by venal morons and will believe the dumbest neoliberal fairy stories.

Instead of propping them up to create the image of an international consensus, a failing US has just decided to treat Europe as a resource to be drained. Its only interest is to keep Europe alienated from China, who would also use them just as a resource to be drained. Somehow, Europe has even lost Russia's energy supplies to China and India, and cultivated such hate in Russia that this relationship might be harder to repair than the US-Russia relationship, which is insane. Somehow, the US has been able to fob off its ongoing (virtually hot) war against Russia onto Europe, and is successfully pushing them to pay for it (like Trump used to say about the border wall and Mexico.)

I have to agree that it reflects on American insecurity. Americans feel like they're living in a failing state heading into civil war and they're all going to die. Then they look at Europe, and they see a state born from war that failed to come together at all, and is somehow getting worse. It makes them feel better about themselves for a second, until they see the price of hamburgers and get depressed again.

spamizbad•20m ago
The author needs to understand that X/Twitter is its own bubble that does not reflect any real shared cultural or political sentiment in the United States. On November 2nd the conventional Twitter wisdom was that polls were actually over-estimating Democrats and that Republicans were within striking distance of a "Reverse 2022" (No wave; modest D gains only). It was clear a day later that it was an illusion - polls were actually grossly underestimating Democratic performance, with some missing by 15 points, like the HarrisX/Harvard pollster.

Twitter, as they say, is not real life. It's just a broken clock that might be right twice a day by happenstance.

dokyun•20m ago
Hilarious how so much political discourse now is just downstream from /pol/ shitposting and people believe it's actually worth writing about. I've never seen the term "europoor" outside 4chan before this.
gherkinnn•8m ago
You're getting downvoted, yet I too remember the term "europoor" and similar sentiments on 4chan more than a decade ago.

Similarly, the alpha-beta-matrix-pills and adjacent nonsense was all over /b/ in the early 2010s.

gr8 b8 m8

AngryData•16m ago
These people are delusional and should not be used as an example of anything. Europeans aren't going broke over common medical issues. How many Europeans are rotting in prison over petty crimes that everyone has to pay for? How does European homelessness stack up to US homelessness? How do the rates of theft compare? All of those things have a cost, and some go far beyond mere financial costs.

How does the median plumber fair between them? The median factory worker? How much time off do most Europeans get compared to most Americans? Everyone likes to compare CEO pay or even software pay here, but those are a tiny fraction of the actual population and clearly the exception to the norm.

Anyone who thinks Europeans in general are poor and Americans in general are rich has got their head so deep in the dirt it is hard to imagine them ever pulling it out to look around.

jmclnx•15m ago
>Why have Americans suddenly become so insecure about their own supposed greatness?

Because of the K shape economy. Only the rich and maybe the very upper middle class is getting any benefit the current boom. The middle class is struggling and has been for decades. The poor ranks are growing and have even a harder time if that is possible.

QDwQ1•4m ago
>click link

>see AI slop image

>close tab

•
4m ago
Other countries (including the ones mentioned above) have Costcos. Many of those stores are more impressive than in the US.
aleph_minus_one•7m ago
> But I have to repeat that Europeans are absolutely delusional.

As a German, I find this very unfair. Most people in European countries are not delusional, but know very well how deep in the shit they and the countries in which they live are.

And, by the way: hardly any German person would tell how great things in Germany are. Many Germans are far too cynic to utter this kind of argument. These posts, in my experience, nearly always come from people from other countries.

---

> Americans feel like they're living in a failing state heading into civil war and they're all going to die.

Except for "heading into civil war" and "we're all going to die", this is also how many Germans feel about their country.

In my feeling, the difference is rather that US-Americans are afraid to die because of this, while quite some Germans wouldn't really care if they all had to die in consideration of the mess everything is in.

---

> Instead of propping them up to create the image of an international consensus, a failing US has just decided to treat Europe as a resource to be drained. Its only interest is to keep Europe alienated from China, who would also use them just as a resource to be drained.

This is exactly how a socially significant portion (though very far from the majority) of people in Germany feel about the USA and China.

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The 'europoors' rants reflect an American insecurity

https://davekeating.substack.com/p/the-europoors-rants-reflect-an-american
32•snowpid•2h ago•27 comments