This sounds similar to the Kimi's mixture of experts architecture if I understood it correctly(likely I have not), can you comment on this ?
MoE (mixture of experts), is an architecture that forces sparsity (not all 'neurons' are active during the forward pass.
This is pretty much orthogonal to that; it works with dense and MoE models, by repeating 'vertical' sections of the transformer stack.
I think that these models have to learn to efficiently use their parameters, and the best way to do that is 'evolve' (yes, a bad word for it), structures over pretraining time. Unfortunately, they don't have a way to access these structures 'from the inside'. I hope this new approach lets up boost performance in s more experimentally rigorous way
I will make another post if the topic is popular; its pretty geeky though, even more than my usual blog posts...
dnhkng•2h ago
The weird finding: single-layer duplication does nothing. Too few layers, nothing. Too many, it gets worse. Only circuit-sized blocks of ~7 layers work. This suggests pretraining carves out discrete functional circuits in the layer stack that only work when preserved whole.
The whole thing was developed on 2x RTX 4090s in my basement. I'm now running current models (GLM-4.7, Qwen3.5, MiniMax M2.5) on a dual GH200 rig (see my other post). Code and new models coming soon.
Happy to answer questions.
rapatel0•56m ago
Have you tried a simple inline loop over the duplicated layers? Would be interesting to see performance. Also, would be interesting to compare with a MOE model. See if these layers are acting like different agreeing "experts" or if there is reasoning happening in the latent space.
naasking•50m ago
https://ouro-llm.github.io/
Pretty cool though. LLM brain surgery.
dnhkng•9m ago
I really think from the experiments that 'organs' (not sure what to term this), develop during massive pretraining. This also means maybe looping the entire models is actually not efficient. Maybe a better way is [linear input section -> loop 1 -> linear section -> loop 2 -> linear section -> ... -> loop n -> linear output]?
This would give 'organs' space to develop.
jauntywundrkind•31m ago
digdugdirk•23m ago
[1] https://weightwatcher.ai/
dnhkng•13m ago
It less 'tool', than an assorted set of scripts, tailored to my unusual hardware setup. But it should be easy to extend; I would have released this earlier but I had the (stupid) idea to 'write a paper' on this. Aiming for that delayed this a year. Blogs are the way to go (for me).