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Show HN: Qwen3-4B with the AI writing tics trained out

https://100toolkit.com/blog/deslop-model/
87•erikkannike•2h ago

Comments

anilgulecha•2h ago
What's with the very distracting cursors of others?
mullenba•1h ago
Exactly. I was interested in the article but I don't have time for that nonsense.
markgavalda•1h ago
Agreed. In the upper right corner there's a "hide" button that I immediately clicked. Then read (ok, skim read) the article.
HumblyTossed•1h ago
Agreed. Just because you _can_ do a thing, doesn't mean you should.
awestroke•1h ago
Nobody knows what it means, but it's provocative. It gets the people going
Almondsetat•1h ago
going... away?
maven29•1h ago
The ancients brought us "reading mode" in browsers as an escape hatch for exactly this kind of cruelty
jmusall•1h ago
There's a "hide" button in the top right corner
2bird3•1h ago
All it is missing now is a chat and a friend/follow feature.....
RonanSoleste•1h ago
I don't understand why this is a feature and what it brings other than shout "you are being watched by random others". Exited the site before ending the first block.
erikkannike•29m ago
Sorry - I've been playing with WebRTC and Trystero (https://trystero.dev/) and added it to my blog as an experiment. Of course didn't expect my blog to become a bit popular on HN and for the cursors to be super annoying. Turned them off by default!
ac2u•1h ago
Is it still capable of writing an essay about AI writing tics or has the very means of producing said tics, even when the model is asked to do so to demonstrate, now abitterated?
swiftcoder•1h ago
Impressed how little hardware is needed to train this.
hashmap•1h ago
I saw those moving dots and snap-closed the page.
chmod775•1h ago
Models have proclivities, and many people use the same model.

Imagine all books on earth were written by just 5 people - and worse, they could not remember what they had written yesterday. You would quickly get tired of reading the same flourishes and patterns over and over.

Whatever style models currently in use have, that's what people are going to be tired of, and it's what they're going to recognize as "AI".

sejje•1h ago
I predict by the end of the year they'll have a style/voice selector for responses.

You can already do that in your agents.md file, of course, or ask for a re-write and dodge the sameness.

wongarsu•1h ago
The most difficult thing in doing it yourself is knowing what to ask for. I can ask my model to talk like a caveman or like a Baltic pirate. But asking for something more nuanced, in the range of regular speech, requires the correct lingo

I'm sure it's trivial for somebody who has studied communication or contemporary linguistics, just as it's trivial for me to ask an LLM for tenant-isolation using row-level security in an app

CharlesW•55m ago
> I'm sure it's trivial for somebody who has studied communication or contemporary linguistics…

But you know what you like, and you know what bothers you, and the good news is that you don't have to one-shot a solution. You can create a skill and refine it over time. As you test and/or use it, identify copy you don't like and tell the LLM what you prefer instead, and ask it to distill and generalize that feedback into the skill.

ndriscoll
Royce-CMR•1h ago
Applause earned. Neat results especially out of such a small model.

Separately we have overlap between AI slop styles and right for the situation writing styles which this highlights.

Using the new CRM example, the clean version looks like a millennial student who rambled on a page, and the AI slop version looks like a draft I could send for PR to corporate managers. I buy the former looks more real, but it also looks sloppy and doesn’t work for most of my use cases.

When I was in school, the structured essay style of the “slop” examples was encouraged and I see it continue to resonate in corporate. The cleaned up versions here def have use cases - reviews for example.

Main point - different styles for different situations and our AI slop versions vs humanized versions both overlap different areas of the “ideal” we continue to look for.

trilogic•1h ago
The q4 loops after 16k tokens generated. Great idea though, hope to see more models like it. Thanks. https://huggingface.co/erikkannike/qwen3-4b-deslop-v4/discus...
charv•1h ago
Side note but the multi-user cursors was a super cool feature, not sure it was relevant to this article but would love to see it on more interactive pieces (a la The Pudding, etc.)
JustSkyfall•1h ago
It's definitely a slight improvement, but it is still rather obvious that the output is AI-written :(
mrweasel•1h ago
The tell tell sign for me is that it's still incredibly hard to read. AI tend to write in a style that I'm unable to easily read (humans does that as well sometimes). I constantly have to go back and re-read the previous sentence, because the text simply doesn't register.

A next step I'd suggest is asking the LLM to use shorter words when available.

BoredomIsFun•1h ago
Did you check this? https://huggingface.co/sam-paech/gemma-3-27b-it-antislop
j45•38m ago
LLMs as a word generator love generating words, and that includes generating bigger words when simpler ones will do.
BoredomIsFun•1h ago
This is not the first deslop. The true pioneer is this dude: https://huggingface.co/sam-paech/gemma-3-27b-it-antislop. This model is a perfectly usable, full size not-toyish model.
f311a•1h ago
Why would you support this sort of projects? LLM text should be spottable for as long as possible, otherwise human communication and expression on the internet will be killed.
squidbeak•54m ago
In what sense will it be killed? I don't plan to stop writing my own messages or notes, just because AI can write, and I seriously doubt many other people who prefer their own voices will change either.
f311a•51m ago
Well, imagine that 90% of the comments on HN are generated and it's very hard to spot it. Would you read them?
konart•47m ago
Imagine that 90% of the comments on HN are generated and it's very hard to spot it. And you read them.
ndriscoll•44m ago
Are they interesting, well thought out, well articulated, and insightful?

https://xkcd.com/810/

chownie•37m ago
> Are they interesting, well thought out, well articulated, and insightful?

The average AI post is likely a carbon copied reddit comment from 2011, that is to say, "no".

10111001•1h ago
Now can I have a model with the AI writing tics trained to the max?

I want my boss to know I'm a Good Boy using AI.

Izmaki•1h ago
You can definitely get far with skills and personal instructions. That is my estimate, not research.

(*defeated chuckles and gazes towards my Claude session*)

BSOhealth•1h ago
for https://slopwash.com I’ve started approaching this more as an eval problem than something to go post-training for. I’m excited to be trying these new Jev-type models in more of a harnessed approach. maybe some heavy LLM to measure preservation of intent
bschwarz•59m ago

    and needs no system prompt
A human would write "and doesn't need a system prompt."
jwr•58m ago
Why kill the em dashes? They are a legitimate mark — one that I have been using for years. On a Mac, you quickly get used to pressing shift-option-hyphen. Em dashes are typographically correct and should be used.
literalAardvark•55m ago
Because no one knows what those are, and they're a major indicator of AI writing.
vsl•27m ago
> they're a major indicator of AI writing.

For the illiterate, sure. Where do you think LLMs picked them up from?

ahmedfromtunis•54m ago
Or at least match the pre-llm human usage frequency.

A total, artificial lack of em dashes can in itself be perceived as another sign of AI writing.

wolttam•10m ago
“This person likes semi-colons a whole lot”

I’ve already seen that trick snuck in by newer models. “I won’t use em-dashes; I’ll use semi-colons!”

LelouBil•19m ago
Honestly I don't see the em dash as for sure AI. It's just that it's often used in LLM tropes like the "it's not XXX — it's more" and other tagline-esque sentences.
sram1337•47m ago
Have you released the detector?
j45•38m ago
This still scores as 100% AI generated on tools like pangram.com.

It stil contains a triple construction, but ranks much cleaner on slop-cop.

nathants•29m ago
how are bite sized models going to solve bad writing?
Fe2O3•20m ago
Why are lists of three considered slop? I genuinely use it quite a bit because groups of three feel more memorable, satisfying, and persuasive. (<- list of three right there)
brazukadev•18m ago
I was excited with the idea then got to the first example and boy that was bad. The second "de-slopped" version has no formatting and is 3 times bigger with the same level of information. This model slopmaxxxed the slop.
•
54m ago
You could try taking a body of your own writing and asking it to characterize it/come up with a prompt (or fine tune if you can) describing your style and quirks.
techjamie•38m ago
This is usually what I've had luck with. I've given it samples of my writing and told it to emulate my style. It did help, but it took some charistics of my speech and cranked them up to 10. I guess in hindsight I could have mentioned for it to take my writing quirks it finds and only apply them in moderation.

Reading what I did get out of it was just a bit uncanny valley strangely enough. Very much had some "hey there fellow kids" energy.

nekusar•34m ago
"Write this thing, in the style of $author"

That works right now.

jamesponddotco•31m ago
I gave Claude several pieces of writing from myself, from notes to code comments to iMessage messages with my wife[1], and asked it to write skills that match my voice. I also incorporated the humanizer[2] skill into it.

Worked like a charm. This is the prompt I used[3] to write a version for the company I own with my wife, if it helps anyone. The personal version, which lead to the `jamenizer` skill, is very similar, but has some personal details in it.

[1]: With her permission, obviously.

[2]: https://github.com/blader/humanizer

[3]: https://paste.sr.ht/~jamesponddotco/303a18228bcd8520e55a76d5...

hypfer•23m ago
Is your wife truly on board with you feeding all of your private conversations into a cloud so that you can optimize yourself out of existence?
xvector•13m ago
Eh, eventually we'll be feeding our consciousness into the cloud. What then?
hypfer•9m ago
Hm honestly probably a wave of domestic terrorism by radical normalists.

Fortunately it won't come to that, because there is a real world outside of this bubble.

So the "radical normalists" will be just normal people, and the application of force will not be terrorism but democratically legitimized.

jamesponddotco•10m ago
Yes, we talked about it, I explained to her what I was going to do, and she said she didn't mind. She doesn't work in tech, but we talk quite a lot about it, and she understands the implications.

Why do you assume I would do anything against my wife's will?

And I never said anything about "optimizing myself out of existence", this comment was still written by me and no LLM touched it.

But when writing comments on code or editing articles, reviews, and whatever long-form writing I give an LLM to review or edit, it's nice to know it'll keep my writing style, voice, and tone.

I'm already obligated to use LLMs at work, otherwise I might lose my job, so why wouldn't I want to have it write in a way I can actually understand?

hypfer•8m ago
> Yes, we talked about it, I explained to her what I was going to do, and she said she didn't mind. She doesn't work in tech, but we talk quite a lot about it, and she understands the implications.

Respectfully, that is how one talks about their pet or their kid but not their partner.

But this is not my beer, but by god this platform.

hypfer•32m ago
Why would one leave writing to the clanker though, given that expression is literally the only thing worth doing as a human?

They're supposed to do the grunt work, but the meaning and the connection is a humans-only thing.

wat10000•17m ago
Trouble is, it’s still the same model, just with a request to sound different. It can only go so far. It’s much like asking an author to imitate the style of another author. They might do a decent job of it but they’ll never match perfectly. And that’s for humans who can actually learn. LLMs can’t.
ndriscoll•31m ago
Then either they're easy to spot, or the human ones are equally low-value.
chownie•19m ago
I would love if it could be a false dichotomy, but given conservative estimates pin about 30% of online posts to AI it seems like there may be a third outcome: we patch the visible holes of humans posting less and less from disinterest by making the bots post more and more.

The end result is that comment sections aren't enticing to join in on, just read. Which is perfect for ad impressions.

ndriscoll•12m ago
The sites that are there for ad impressions already worked this way though. The incentives were geared toward poor human discussion as well (c.f. reddit as a best case, and e.g. instagram/tiktok/youtube as what they'd like to be). So the problem here is ads, a desire to grow to include the entire world to show them ads, and a desire to do whatever it takes to keep their attention to show them ads.
chownie•46m ago
I stopped using reddit entirely because it's bots talking to other bots on threads posted by bots, I stopped making posts at the start of this year because I no longer know if a human being is ever reading them. I then deleted the account.

I am increasingly feeling that way about HN, too. If this is all the equivalent of a videogame conversation with an AI, why am I bothering to put the effort in?

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