Imagine a black hole on the quite small end, intersecting the core of a planet. Unlike regular matter, it can't really produce bow shock through collisions, right? All the target matter in the direct path just "falls in" and in elastically reduces the black hole momentum a tiny bit?
Some matter outside the direct path could be accelerated towards the black hole but slingshot behind it, rather than into it. So this material could produce an impressive wake, with material spraying outward from the collision path and interacting with the remainder of the target.
But, all this visible chaos comes from gravity rather than more direct kinetic interactions, right? If the black hole is moving faster, doesn't the target's material gets less gravitational acceleration as it spends less time in the near field? So, if the blackhole is moving very fast, does it bore a smaller hole and have less interaction with the target? Or do other effects of relativity make this more convoluted to think about?
I'm imagining a cylindrical plug of a planet "instantaneously" disappearing, and then the remainder of the planet collapsing inward to fill the void, bouncing off itself, and ringing like a bell.
When a black hole accretes matter, the matter can create tremendous radiation before it crosses the event horizon due to the atoms experiencing many effects such as rapid nuclear fusion and becoming new forms of matter such as neutronium. The precise amount of energy released depends on spin, charge, and size of the black hole, and the speed at which the matter approaches the black hole.
If a tiny black hole (Let's say 10cm across) ripped through the earth at significant speed it would be like the center of the planet momentarily became the center of a star and (hand waving a bunch of assumptions) the total energy could easily be greater than the gravitational binding energy of the planet. The planet would explode.
Unless you cross its event horizon, its gravity works just like any other celestial object. Maybe at worst it slingshots you off in a different direction.
A small, lone black hole could be on an intersecting trajectory with us within a few years and we’d be completely oblivious.
With all that said, maybe it's better off if we were completely oblivious.
even that would be a slow death I suppose. Don’t think the Earth would just vanish instantly.
1) the Earth being flung out of the Sun's orbit
2) planetary orbits becoming disrupted such that an encounter with another planet over the coming years or millennia becomes likely,
2.1) which could eventually have the same "flinging away from the Sun" effect,
2.2) or (unlikely, but possible) result in a collision
2.3) or result in the Earth being shredded into asteroids
2.4) or other planets suffering that fate and then showering the Earth with dangerously-large asteroids over a period of decades or centuries until it's nearly, or actually (think: outright crust liquefaction from impacts) lifeless.
than the Earth actually getting swallowed up, by at least an order of magnitude.
IOW, the most-likely "we're all dead" outcomes for us, from a close encounter with a massive rogue anything really, including a black hole, might take years and years to play out.
Is this what would happen if we got slurped into a black hole? I was hoping for something more exciting …
I’d probably welcome the quicker demise tbh
I may be misunderstanding the distances involved but wouldn't such a collision take centuries if not thousands of years to play out? For the most part it would just look like we had 2 suns, one of which gets a few millimeters bigger (to the naked eye) every year.
Have you seen the Walking Dead?
Space: 1999. Do you happen to be french or polish?
In Germany they called it "Mondbasis Alpha". As I child I really liked this series and it's predecessor UFO made by the same team (Gerry and Sylvia Anderson of Thunderbirds fame).
There's a fan driven update called Space: 2099 that improves some of the more dated aspects of the show, including showing the Moon enter some type of portal or wormhole to make suspension of disbelief easier. While the Special Edition releases of Star Wars often suffered from updating certain aspects, especially special effects, the Space: 2099 changes were generally good for the show. Too bad they're unable to fund raise enough and get permission to do the entire series.
Deliberately hitting things in space is hard, accidentally, more-so.
Consider the chance of our sun getting whacked when the entire Andromeda galaxy gets here ... billions or more likely trillions to one. The chance of a single mass in our own galaxy getting us should be less than that.
edit: as far as I know the only difference between getting gobbled by a black hole v.s. anything else is our atoms won't get to continue their evolution into larger atoms in this universe. (or maybe see it as our atoms get to complete their evolution in this universe)
Apparently the Roman Space Telescope will be great at detecting these, if it doesn't get cancelled.
Direct interaction isn't needed for havoc. A supermassive object sweeping by the Solar System could destabilize Jovian orbits. In the Nice model, Neptune flung Kuiper belt asteroids sunward, gifting the inner planets with a late heavy bombardment.
Rogue gas giants, brown dwarfs accelerated to relativistic speeds, giant asteroids approaching from the Sun's direction, Carrington Events, an ill-directed gamma ray, etc. So many ways life on Earth can see its 250 million remaining years cut short, and those are only a few of the cosmic threats we can imagine.
A black hole with a Schwarzschild radius of 20 km would weigh about 6.8 Solar masses. It wouldn't even need to get super close to affect the Solar System.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pangaea_Proxima
Life might very well exist on earth even through those conditions, but not to the extent we have today.
I was playing with Universe Sandbox over the weekend trying to figure out how to terraform Venus. Changing its axial rotation period to a day to match the Earth while I screwed around with its chemistry was enough to cause Europa and some of the other famous moons of Jupiter and Saturn as well as Charon to yeet themselves outside of the solar system within about 10 or 20 years of simulated time.
But for what it’s worth, it’s also just so incredibly unlikely it’s not a scenario worth thinking about either, and thinking about it too much just invites existential dread.
It seems like we think there's many more of these black holes, but we just can't see them
If those primordial black holes are mostly on their own, and are both numerous and small, they make a potential candidate for dark matter. They could also be potentially small enough to be evaporating in our current era. This has been suggested as a potential source of a very high energy neutrino that was found in February. See https://www.livescience.com/space/black-holes/evidence-for-s....
(Note that this is just a single observation. We are a very long way from being able to obtain strong experimental evidence for such speculative theories.)
They makeup much of the stylish universe in the cosmos ;-)
Just kidding, I know you meant rogue.
I would assume we'd see a lot of more tricks of light bending if they did. Light lensing was used to confirm relativity by looking for multiple super novae signatures from the same event, which passed by large black holes on their way here!
Found a couple of videos on it too
However if we could eliminate the false signals from invisible (singularity) matter I am hopeful that will give us a clearer idea of whatever the rest is.
In fact one of the proposed cosmological models for our universe is that it has sufficient density to some day reverse its expansion and then fall in on itself into a giant black hole. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Crunch for more.
It explodes outward until the explosion energy is cancelled out by gravity, wherein the universe then collapses on itself. The moment in which the last bit of matter and energy is consumed by the massive black hole that forms, it's enough to cause another explosion.
Gravity pulls things in by causing space-time to accelerate in a particular direction. In other words we accelerate towards the Earth at 9.8 meters per second per second because that is what space-time itself does. The space-time that is in our frame of reference accelerates down, carrying us with it. The floor pushes up on us, causing us to accelerate up. Balancing things out so that we remain where we are.
A dense mass will cause flat space-time to start falling in. Enough mass, densely enough, will cause it to fall in so fast that not even light can escape. This is a black hole.
However the Big Bang wasn't a flat space-time. The space-time that was the structure of the universe was moving apart extremely quickly. There was more than enough mass around to create a black hole today. But what it did is cause the expansion rate to slow. Not to stop, reverse, and fall back in on itself into a giant black hole.
Ok, how does this sketch work for a low-ellipticity eccentric orbit?
> "The space-time that is in our frame of reference"
Isn't throwing out general covariance (and manifold insubstantivalism) rather a high price for a simplification of Einsteinian gravitation?
> the Big Bang wasn't a flat space-time
Sure, it's a set of events in a region of the whole spacetime. If we take "Big Bang" colloquially enough to include the inflationary epoch, always assuming GR is correct, then at every point in that "Big Bang" region of the whole spacetime there is a small patch -- a subregion -- of exactly flat spacetime. However, these small patches must be small because most choices of initially-close pairs of test objects can only couple to timelike curves that wildly spread in one direction (and focus in the other).
I don't know how to understand your two final sentences: how do you connect the period just before the end of inflation and the expansion history during the radiation and matter epochs?
> at every point in that "Big Bang" region of the whole spacetime there is a small patch -- a subregion -- of exactly flat spacetime
Can explain how you get a non-empty region of exactly flat space time around every point?
Patching together curved things out of not curved things happens all of the time. The Earth looks flat around the point you are standing. I'm worried that just because it looks flat in my city doesn't mean it is actually flat in my city, if I measure carefully.
I'll try to keep this understandable, but can expand or ELI5 bits of it if that would help you.
Physically, local flatness is a statement about the local validity of Special Relativity. Practically, a failure of the local validity of Special Relativty -- a Local Lorentz Invariance violation (often abbreviated LLI violation or local LIV or local LV) -- would be apparent in stellar physics and the spectral lines of white dwarfs and neutron stars and close binaries of them. Certainly we haven't been able to generate local LIV in our highest-energy particle smashers, so the Lorentz group being built into the Standard Model is on pretty safe footing.
It wasn't a piece of math, which would involve writing out an Einstein-Cartan or Palatini action that let one break out the local Lorentz transformations and diffeomorphisms into a mathematical statement, as one can find in modern (particularly post-Ashtekar in the late 1980s) advanced graduate textbooks. Nobody wants that scribbled out in pseudo-LaTeX here on HN. :-)
Here is an interesting and very slightly contrarian (they do arrive at Theorem 1: it and most of the following text explaining it is beautifully stated orthodoxy -- and note Corollary 4) view by a pair of philosophers of mathematics (they both have also done physics, they are not cranks) at <https://philosophyofphysics.lse.ac.uk/articles/10.31389/pop....> (their rather orthodox part 2 is at <https://philosophyofphysics.lse.ac.uk/articles/10.31389/pop....>).
The choice quote from part 1: "[our] final interpretation says that every spacetime is locally approximately flat in the sense that near any point of any spacetime (or near sufficiently small segments of a curve), there exists a flat metric that coincides with the spacetime metric to first order at that point (or on that curve) and approximates it arbitrarily well," [emphasis mine].
You might prefer to emphasise "approximately" in that quote, but the approximation is much better than that of, say, a square millimetre of your floor.
Next, from a historical perspective: General Relativity was built with making gravitation Special-Relativistic, following Poincaré's 1905 argument about the finite-speed propagation of the gravitational interaction. Einstein (and others) had several false starts marrying gravitation and Special Relativity in various ways before ultimately arriving at spacetime curvature. (At that point, in the 1920s, one finally had the vocabularly to describe Special Relativity's Minkowski spacetime as flat; the Lorentz group theory came later). But making sure Special Relativity didn't break on around Earth -- where it had been tested aggressively for two decades -- was terribly important to Einstein. Additionally, he did not want to break what Newtonian gravitation got right. The mathematics follow somewhat from this compatibility approach where Newtonian gravitation and Special Relativity are correct in the limit where masses are moving very slowly compared to the speed of light and are not compact like white dwarfs or denser objects.
The regions in which there is no hope in many many human lifetimes for finding a deviation from Local Lorentz Invariance are huge (there are interplanetary tests with space probes in our solar system, and interstellar tests using pulsar timing arrays), even if General Relativity turns out to be slightly wrong. This is an area which invites frequent experimental investigation: <https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=local%20lorentz%20invarianc...>.
Finally, it is precisely your intuition that big curvature must be built up from small curvature that is the point of investigating local LIV. So far, and to great precision, those intuitions are wrong. Nature builds up impressive spacetime curvature (e.g. in white dwarfs and neutron stars) without showing any signs of softening the local validity of Special Relativity (i.e., the interactions of matter within those compact stars). And that's part of why quantum gravitation is nowhere near decided.
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wglb•6h ago
Earlier article about first discovery: https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3847/1538-4357/ac739e/...
montag•1h ago