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Jupiter was formerly twice its current size, had a much stronger magnetic field

https://phys.org/news/2025-05-jupiter-current-size-stronger-magnetic.html
45•pseudolus•3d ago

Comments

rwmj•5h ago
Couldn't read the actual paper as it is paywalled, but does "twice its current radius" mean that it had a larger mass, and if so what happened to all that extra mass?
elashri•5h ago
A prepublished version of the paper is available on arxiv [1]

[1] https://arxiv.org/abs/2505.12652

lazide•4h ago
It was hotter, a lot hotter.

Like stars, radius for a gas giant is increased by heat, and decreased by increased mass.

These two factors are rarely completely independent, of course, so it gets complicated. Especially in a star where masses are large enough to result in densities sufficient to cause fusion - and large releases of heat, which then cause decreased density, etc.

But all other factors being constant, the volume of a gas increases (and density decreases) as temperature increases.

See page 6 and the first couple paragraphs of page 7 in the paper for a breakdown.

Eventually Jupiter will cool enough it will be a small fraction of it’s current size, assuming that our understanding is correct and it doesn’t have enough mass to meaningfully result in fusion regardless of how dense it gets. [https://www.pas.rochester.edu/~blackman/ast104/jinterior.htm...]

In theory, it will even eventually cool to the point all those clouds and atmosphere are liquid (or even solid!) gas oceans. That is going to take awhile.

HappMacDonald•2h ago
> Like stars, radius for a gas giant is [..] decreased by increased mass.

If this is the case then do you have any intel on why do the gas giants in our system appear to more closely directly correlate mass with radius instead of inversely?

https://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/factsheet/ Mass: Jupiter = 3.3 x Saturn = 22 x Uranus = 19 x Neptune Radius: Jupiter = 1.2 x Saturn = 3 x Uranus = 3 x Neptune

I mean Saturn's density is far less than either of the other three planets, despite being smaller and less massive than Jupiter but larger and more massive than Uranus/Neptune, as well as slightly cooler than Jupiter and far warmer than Uranus/Neptune. And Saturn has the lowest angular velocity among the four, which it would make sense might have the opposite relative effect on density.

skywhopper•2h ago
They’re all made out of different mixes of gases and other elements, and are different distances from the sun, and any number of other variables.
raattgift•1h ago
Neither Jupiter nor Saturn is close to thermal equilibrium, whereas the sun is. Bounded self-gravitating gas spheres in thermodynamic equilibrium can show negative specific heats [The classic LBLB, Lynden-Bell & Lynden-Bell, 1977 <https://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1977MNRAS.181..405L>]. A negative specific heat capacity reducews the gas's volume as its temperature increases. Temperature in stars and gas giants is mostly lowering due to outward radiation driven by internal processes. Unlike a star, Jupiter's specific heat capacity is positive. Very roughly the sun's excess power output will cause it to grow (this handwaves a complex balance of temperature, pressure, mass, and nuclear fusion as it rises in the main-sequence part of the H-R diagram <https://chandra.harvard.edu/graphics/edu/formal/variable_sta...> -- as it climbs in that region with similar temperature the sun gets brighter because it gets bigger), while Jupiter's power output has been higher (presently about 2.5x) than its solar radiation input yet the planet has probably been shrinking.

The energy input and internal heat budgets are under active study for Jupiter <https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-06107-2> (open access), and will supply further evidence for various hypotheses about "primordial Jupiter", one of which is the topic here. One of the major points of comparison with a star here would be how the former is much more like an ideal blackbody than our local gas giants. And of course there is a dark side of Jupiter, while there is no dark side of the sun.

greggsy•57m ago
Could it cool and crystallise?

Could those crystals then erode and reform again as sedimentary rocks to be come a solid planets like earyh?

I understand that’s not how earth itself came to be, but it’s an interesting metamorphosis that I hadn’t previously considered.

jessriedel•13m ago
Like the interior of the planet, the atmosphere is overwhelmingly hydrogen and helium. And helium is liquid even at 0 temperature unless under pressure, so presumably (?) would be liquid on the surface. These materials are mechanically very different than the silcates and metals dominating the Earth’s crust, and I don’t think we even have well measured bulk properties? Not sure what erosion processes would look like.
lazide•11m ago
At the point hydrogen, helium, ammonia, etc. have cooled to solid ‘rock’, chemistry and weather as we’re familiar with it doesn’t really apply anymore. Pluto has been that way for a long time though, albeit good luck spending enough time there to get very familiar with it.
Zardoz84•4h ago
Not larger mass. Simply, was less dense. In layman terms, and if I understand correctly, was the result of the interactions of Jupiter, Jupiter's magnetosphere and Jupiter's circumplanetary disk.
DonHopkins•3h ago
aka "fluffier"
exe34•4h ago
Probably contracted as it's mostly gas.
adrian_b•4h ago
The mass did not differ much from the present mass, but the planet was less dense and with a more rapid rotation.
est31•2h ago
How is the size defined for a gas planet? The gas density just keeps dropping, where do you draw the line (isosurface, rather)? Earth's radius is always the one without earth's atmosphere.
Maxatar•1h ago
It's defined as the distance from the center of mass to the point where the pressure is equal to the pressure on Earth at sea level.
amelius•1h ago
It's a matter of definitions, so we skip them and just choose something that makes sense to humans.
jessriedel•24m ago
As others note, the definition of Jupiter’s radius is set by where the pressure is 1 bar. This is somewhat arbitrary, but the arbitrariness doesn’t matter much: the pressure drops to 1 microbar just 320 km higher, which is <0.5% of Jupiter’s ~70,000 km radius.
yubblegum•8m ago
I've always wondered about the core of these gas giants. I assume it is some liquid form of light elements. What is puzzling is the presence of the gas giants in the middle of solar system's planetary line up: why are they in the middle and the ones closer or further away from the central star are not like them? Is it the temperature gradient?
fasteddie31003•4m ago
I am deeply skeptical of any "research" that concludes something in the past. The scientific method relies on observation, experimentation, and replication, but these aren't possible with past events, so we can't directly test or falsify historical claims. Instead, researchers infer conclusions based on indirect evidence like documents, artifacts, or statistical patterns—often without being able to isolate variables or rule out alternatives.

If something is not falsifiable, it is not science in my book. Research that is falsifiable uncovers deep truths of nature that will benefit humanity's progress, which this kind of research will not.

Sorry to be a downer. I haven't had my morning coffee yet.

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