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Datalog in Rust

https://github.com/frankmcsherry/blog/blob/master/posts/2025-06-03.md
15•brson•37m ago•0 comments

The Art of Lisp and Writing

https://www.dreamsongs.com/ArtOfLisp.html
66•Bogdanp•4h ago•13 comments

Ruby on Rails Audit Complete

https://ostif.org/ruby-on-rails-audit-complete/
41•todsacerdoti•3d ago•5 comments

Q-learning is not yet scalable

https://seohong.me/blog/q-learning-is-not-yet-scalable/
146•jxmorris12•10h ago•24 comments

CI/CD Observability with OpenTelemetry Step by Step Guide

https://signoz.io/blog/cicd-observability-with-opentelemetry/
58•ankit01-oss•3d ago•17 comments

Infinite Grid of Resistors

https://www.mathpages.com/home/kmath668/kmath668.htm
173•niklasbuschmann•13h ago•73 comments

I have reimplemented Stable Diffusion 3.5 from scratch in pure PyTorch

https://github.com/yousef-rafat/miniDiffusion
420•yousef_g•21h ago•70 comments

The Algebra of an Infinite Grid of Resistors

https://www.mathpages.com/home/kmath669/kmath669.htm
24•gone35•6h ago•3 comments

Breaking My Security Assignments

https://www.akpain.net/blog/breaking-secnet-assignments/
52•surprisetalk•2d ago•10 comments

Waymo rides cost more than Uber or Lyft and people are paying anyway

https://techcrunch.com/2025/06/12/waymo-rides-cost-more-than-uber-or-lyft-and-people-are-paying-anyway/
376•achristmascarl•2d ago•648 comments

AMD's AI Future Is Rack Scale 'Helios'

https://morethanmoore.substack.com/p/amds-ai-future-is-rack-scale-helios
90•rbanffy•15h ago•45 comments

Chicken Eyeglasses

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_eyeglasses
116•thomassmith65•4d ago•36 comments

Solar Orbiter gets world-first views of the Sun's poles

https://www.esa.int/Science_Exploration/Space_Science/Solar_Orbiter/Solar_Orbiter_gets_world-first_views_of_the_Sun_s_poles
232•sohkamyung•3d ago•29 comments

Inside the Apollo “8-Ball” FDAI (Flight Director / Attitude Indicator)

https://www.righto.com/2025/06/inside-apollo-fdai.html
148•zdw•20h ago•28 comments

Meta-analysis of three different notions of software complexity

https://typesanitizer.com/blog/complexity-definitions.html
38•ingve•1d ago•6 comments

Dance Captcha

https://dance-captcha.vercel.app/
58•edwinarbus•2d ago•18 comments

Bioprospectors mine microbial genomes for antibiotic gold

https://cen.acs.org/pharmaceuticals/drug-discovery/Bioprospectors-mine-microbial-genomes-antibiotic/103/web/2025/06
15•bryanrasmussen•4d ago•2 comments

Show HN: Tool shows why 1.3B people can't use your website

https://accessibility-lens.lovable.app/
3•sobinsamuel•35m ago•0 comments

Text-to-LoRA: Hypernetwork that generates task-specific LLM adapters (LoRAs)

https://github.com/SakanaAI/text-to-lora
4•dvrp•3d ago•1 comments

Have a damaged painting? Restore it in just hours with an AI-generated “mask”

https://news.mit.edu/2025/restoring-damaged-paintings-using-ai-generated-mask-0611
69•WithinReason•2d ago•43 comments

How multiplication is defined in Peano arithmetic

http://devlinsangle.blogspot.com/2011/11/how-multiplication-is-really-defined-in.html
19•nill0•1d ago•2 comments

Last fifty years of integer linear programming: Recent practical advances

https://inria.hal.science/hal-04776866v1
197•teleforce•1d ago•61 comments

Debunking HDR [video]

https://yedlin.net/DebunkingHDR/index.html
96•plastic3169•3d ago•52 comments

Cray versus Raspberry Pi

https://www.aardvark.co.nz/daily/2025/0611.shtml
114•flyingkiwi44•4d ago•81 comments

Endometriosis is an interesting disease

https://www.owlposting.com/p/endometriosis-is-an-incredibly-interesting
362•crescit_eundo•1d ago•241 comments

Fixing the mechanics of my bullet chess

https://jacobbrazeal.wordpress.com/2025/06/14/fixing-the-mechanics-of-my-bullet-chess/
39•tibbar•12h ago•29 comments

The Many Sides of Erik Satie

https://thereader.mitpress.mit.edu/the-many-sides-of-erik-satie/
151•anarbadalov•6d ago•36 comments

SIMD-friendly algorithms for substring searching (2016)

http://0x80.pl/notesen/2016-11-28-simd-strfind.html
213•Rendello•1d ago•33 comments

Unsupervised Elicitation of Language Models

https://arxiv.org/abs/2506.10139
128•kordlessagain•23h ago•18 comments

TimeGuessr

https://timeguessr.com/
301•stefanpie•5d ago•60 comments
Open in hackernews

We investigated Amsterdam's attempt to build a 'fair' fraud detection model

https://www.lighthousereports.com/methodology/amsterdam-fairness/
75•troelsSteegin•2d ago

Comments

djoldman•15h ago
"Unbiased," and "fair" models are generally somewhat ironic.

It's generally straightforward to develop one if we don't care much about the performance metric:

If we want the output to match a population distribution, we just force it by taking the top predicted for each class and then filling up the class buckets.

For example, if we have 75% squares and 25% circles, but circles are predicted at a 10-1 rate, who cares, just take the top 3 squares predicted and the top 1 circle predicted until we fill the quota.

Scarblac•14h ago
But that's a bias, if circles are actually more likely to be fraudulant.
djoldman•14h ago
If the definition of "unbiased" and "fair" is that the model flags squares and circles at a rate or proportion equal to the population distribution of squares and circles, then the model is unbiased and fair.

As noted above, this doesn't do anything for performance.

wongarsu•14h ago
So if I want to make a model to recommend inkjet printers then a quarter of all recommendations should be for HP printers? After all, a quarter of all sold printers are HP.

As you say, that would be a crappy model. But in my opinion that would also be hardly a fair or unbiased model. That would be a model unfairly biased in favor of HP, who barely sell anything worth recommending

djoldman•14h ago
Yes, well there's the irony.

"Unbiased" and "fair" are quite overloaded here, to borrow a programming term.

I think it's one of those times where single words should expressly NOT be used to describe the intent.

The intent of this is to presume that the rate of the thing we are trying to detect is constant across subgroups. The definition of a "good" model therefore is one that approximates this.

I'm curious if their data matches that assumption. Do subgroups submit bad applications at the same rate?

It may be that they don't have the data and therefore can't answer that.

teekert•13h ago
I know a cop, they do public searchings for weapons or drugs. Our law dictates fairness. So every now and then they search an elderly couple. You know how this goes and what the results are.

Any model would be unfair, age-wise but also ethnically.

To be most effective the model would have to be unfair. It would suck to be a law abiding young specific ethnic minority.

But does it help to search elderly couples?

I’m Genuinely curious what would be fair and effective here. You can’t be a Bayesian.

lostlogin•11h ago
If this strategy was applied across policing, their metrics would likely improve markedly.

Eg, police shooting and brutality stats wouldn’t be tolerated for very long.

BonoboIO•14h ago
The article talks a lot about fairness metrics but never mentions whether the system actually catches fraud.

Without figures for true positives, recall, or financial recoveries, its effectiveness remains completely in the dark.

In short: great for moral grandstanding in the comments section, but zero evidence that taxpayer money or investigative time was ever saved.

stefan_•11h ago
It also doesn't mention what numbers we are even talking about that given the expansive size of the Dutch government make this an at all useful thing.
tomp•14h ago
Key point:

The model is considered fair if its performance is equal across these groups.

One can immediately see why this is problematic, easily by considering equivalent example in less controversial (i.e. emotionally charged) situations.

Should basketball performance be equal across racial, or sex groups? How about marathon performance?

It’s not unusual that relevant features are correlated with protected features. In the specific example above, being an immigrant is likely correlated with not knowing the local language, therefore being underemployed and hence more likely to apply for benefits.

atherton33•14h ago
I think they're saying something more subtle.

In your basketball analogy, it's more like they have a model that predicts basketball performance, and they're saying that model should predict performance equally well across groups, not that the groups should themselves perform equally well.

tomp•14h ago
You’re right, I misinterpreted it.
wongarsu•13h ago
A big part of the difficulty of such an attempt is that we don't know the ground truth. A model is fair or unbiased if its performance is equally good for all groups. Meaning e.g. if 90% of cases of Arabs committing fraud are flagged as fraud, then 90% of cases of Danish people committing fraud should be flagged as fraud. The paper agrees on this.

The issue is that we don't know how many Danish commit fraud, and we don't know how many Arabs commit fraud, because we don't trust the old process to be unbiased. So how are we supposed to judge if the new model is unbiased? This seems fundamentally impossible without improving our ground truth in some way.

The project presented here instead tries to do some mental gymnastics to define a version of "fair" that doesn't require that better ground truth. They were able to evaluate their results on the false-positive rate by investigating the flagged cases, but they were completely in the dark about the false-negative rate.

In the end, the new model was just as biased, but in the other direction, and performance was simply worse:

> In addition to the reappearance of biases, the model’s performance in the pilot also deteriorated. Crucially, the model was meant to lead to fewer investigations and more rejections. What happened instead was mostly an increase in investigations , while the likelihood to find investigation worthy applications barely changed in comparison to the analogue process. In late November 2023, the city announced that it would shelve the pilot.

zeroCalories•13h ago
Does anyone know what they mean by reweighing demographics? Are they penalizing incorrect classifications more heavily for those demographics, or making sure that each demographic is equally represented, or something else? Putting aside the model's degraded performance, I think it's fair to try and make sure the model is performing well for all demographics.
3abiton•13h ago
> A more concerning limitation is that when the city re-ran parts of its analysis, it did not fully replicate its own data and results. For example, the city was unable to replicate its train and test split. Furthermore, the data related to the model after reweighting is not identical to what the city published in its bias report and although the results are substantively the same, the differences cannot be explained by mere rounding errors.

Very well written, but that last part id concerning and point to one part: did they hire interns? How cone they do not have systems? It just cast a big doubt on the whole experiment.

tbrownaw•13h ago
> But the model designers were aware that features could be correlated with demographic groups in a way that would make them proxies.

There's a huge problem with people trying to use umbrella usage to predict flooding. Some people are trying to develop a computer model that uses rainfall instead, but watchdog groups have raised concerns that rainfall may be used as a proxy for umbrella usage.

(It seems rather strange to expect a statistical model trained for accuracy to infer and indirect through a shadow variable that makes it less accurate, simply because it's something easy for humans to observe directly and then use as a lossy shortcut or to promote alternate goals that aren't part of the labels being trained for or whatever.)

> These are two sets of unavoidable tradeoffs: focusing on one fairness definition can lead to worse outcomes on others. Similarly, focusing on one group can lead to worse performance for other groups. In evaluating its model, the city made a choice to focus on false positives and on reducing ethnicity/nationality based disparities. Precisely because the reweighting procedure made some gains in this direction, the model did worse on other dimensions.

Nice to see an investigation that's serious enough to acknowledge this.

tripletao•12h ago
They correctly note the existence of a tradeoff, but I don't find their statement of it very clear. Ideally, a model would be fair in the senses that:

1. In aggregate over any nationality, people face the same probability of a false positive.

2. Two people who are identical except for their nationality face the same probability of a false positive.

In general, it's impossible to achieve both properties. If the output and at least one other input correlate with nationality, then a model that ignores nationality fails (1). We can add back nationality and reweight to fix that, but then it fails (2).

This tradeoff is most frequently discussed in the context of statistical models, since those make that explicit. It applies to any process for deciding though, including human decisions.

kurthr•11h ago
This is a really key result. You can't effectively be "blind" to a parameter that is significantly correlated to multiple inputs and your output prediction. By using those inputs to minimize false positives you are not statistically blind, and you can't correct the statistics while being blind.

My suspicion is that in many situations you could build a detector/estimator which was fairly close to being blind without a significant total increase in false positives, but how much is too much?

I'm actually more concerned that where I live even accuracy has ceased to be the point.

londons_explore•11h ago
> Two people who are identical except for their nationality face the same probability of a false positive

It would be immoral to disadvantage one nationality over another. But we also cannot disadvantage one age group over another. Or one gender over another. Or one hair colour over another. Or one brand of car over another.

So if we update this statement:

> Two people who are identical except for any set of properties face the same probability of a false positive.

With that new constraint, I don't believe it is possible to construct a model which outperforms a data-less coin flip.

Borealid•6h ago
I think the ethical desire is not to remove bias across all properties. Properties that result from an individual's conscious choices are allowed to be used as factors.

One can't change one's race, but changing marital status is possible.

Where it gets tricky is things like physical fitness or social groups...

drdaeman•6h ago
I think you took too much of a jump, considering all properties the same, as if the only way to make the system fair is to make it entirely blind to the applicant.

We tend to distinguish between ascribed and achieved characteristics. It is considered to be unethical to discriminate upon things a person has no control over, such as their nationality, gender, age or natural hair color.

However, things like a car brand are entirely dependent on one's own actions, and if there's a meaningful statistically significant correlation owning a Maserati and fraudulently applying for welfare, I'm not entirely sure it would be unethical to consider such factor.

And it also depends on what a false positive means for a person in question. Fairness (like most things social) is not binary, and while outright rejections can be very unfair, additional scrutiny can be less so, even though still not fair (causing prolonged times and extra stress). If things are working normally, I believe there's a sort of (ever-changing, of course, as times and circumstances evolve) an unspoken social agreement on what's the balance between fairness and abuse that can be afforded.

luckylion•4h ago
> It is considered to be unethical to discriminate upon things a person has no control over, such as their nationality, gender, age or natural hair color.

Nationality and natural hair color I understand, but age and gender? A lot of behaviors are not evenly distributed. Riots after a football match? You're unlikely to find a lot of elderly women (and men, but especially women) involved. Someone is fattening a child? That elderly women you've excluded for riots suddenly becomes a prime suspect.

> things like a car brand are entirely dependent on one's own actions

If you assume perfect free will, sure. But do you?

drdaeman•4h ago
> A lot of behaviors are not evenly distributed.

That’s true. But the idea is that feeding it to a system as an input could be considered unethical, as one cannot control their age. Even though there’s a valid correlation.

> If you assume perfect free will, sure. But do you?

I’m not. If this matters, I’m actually currently persuaded that free will doesn’t exist. Which doesn’t change that if one buys a car, its make is typically all their decision. Whenever such decision is coming from them having a free will or entirely determined by antecedent causes doesn’t really matter for purposes of fraud detection (or maybe I fail to see how it does).

I mean, we don’t need to care why people do things (at all, in general) - it matters for how we should act upon detection, but not for detecting itself. And, as I understand it, we know we don’t want to cause unfair pressure on groups defined by factors they cannot change. Because when we did that it consistently contributed to various undesirable consequences. E.g. discrimination and stereotypes against women or men, or prejudice against younger or elder people didn’t do us any well.

belorn•27m ago
Could we look at what kind of achieved characteristics exists that do not act as a proxy for an ascribed characteristics, because I have a really hard time to find those. Culture and values are highly intertwined with behavior, and the bigger the impact the behavior has on a person life, it seems that the stronger the proxy behavior is going to be.

To take a few examples, looking at employment characteristics will have a strong relationship with gender, generally creating greater false positives for women. Similarly, academic success will have greater false positives for men. Where a person choose to live will proxy heavily towards social economic factors, which in turn has gender as a major factor.

Welfare fraud in itself also has differences between men and women. The sums tend to be higher for men. Women in turn dominate the users of the welfare system. Women and men also tend to receive welfare at different time in their life. It possible even that car brand has a correlation with gender which then would act as a proxy.

In terms of defining fairness, I do find it interesting that the Analogue Process gave men a beneficial advantage, while both the initial and the reweighed model are the opposite and give women an even bigger beneficial advantage. The change in bias against men created by using the detection algorithms is actually about the same size as the change in bias against non-dutch nationality between initial model and the reweighed one.

talkingtab•13h ago
Is this crazy or what? My take away is that the factors the city of Amsterdam is using to predict fraud are probably not actually predictors. For example if you use the last digit of someones phone number as a fraud predictor, you might discover there is a bias against low numbers. So you adjust your model to make it less likely that low numbers generate investigations. It is unlikely that your model will be any more fair after your adjustment.

One has to wonder if the study is more valid a predictor of the implementers' biases than that of the subjects.

precommunicator•6h ago
You can find the parameters used in GitHub repository linked from the article, and the phone number isn't one of them (https://github.com/Lighthouse-Reports/amsterdam_fairness/tre...)
thatguymike•13h ago
Congrats Amsterdam: they funded a worthy and feasible project; put appropriate ethical guardrails in place; iterated scientifically; then didn’t deploy when they couldn’t achieve a result that satisfied their guardrails. We need more of this in the world.
tbrownaw•12h ago
What were the error rates for the various groups with the old process? Was the new process that included the model actually worse for any group, or was it just uneven in how much better it was?
ncruces•12h ago
I have a growing feeling that the only way to be fair in these situations is to be completely random.
Jimmc414•12h ago
Amsterdam reduced bias by one measure (False Positive Share) and bias increased by another measure (False Discovery Rate). This isn’t a failure of implementation; it’s a mathematical reality that you often can’t satisfy multiple fairness criteria simultaneously.

Training on past human decisions inevitably bakes in existing biases.

londons_explore•11h ago
In my view, we need to move the goalposts.

Fraud detection models will never be fair. Their job is to find fraud. They will never be perfect, and the mistaken cases will cause a perfectly honest citizen to be disadvantaged in some way.

It does not matter if that group is predominantly 'people with skin colour X' or 'people born on a Tuesday'.

What matters is that the disadvantage those people face is so small as to be irrelevant.

I propose a good starting point would be for each person investigated to be paid money to compensate them for the effort involved - whether or not they committed fraud.

WhyIsItAlwaysHN•3h ago
Some groups will be more disadvantaged than others by being investigated. For example for welfare, I expect fraudsters to have more money to support themselves or less people to support (unless the criteria for welfare is something unexpected). So I'd say that there also needs to be more protections than just providing money.

Nevertheless the idea of giving money is still good imo, because it also incentivizes the fraud detection becoming more efficient, since mistakes now cost more. Unfortunately I have a feeling people might game that to get more money by triggering false investigations.

LorenPechtel•8h ago
Why is there so much focus on "fair" even when reality isn't?

Not all misdeeds are equally likely to be detected. What matter is minimizing the false positives and false negatives. But it sounds like they don't even have a base truth to be comparing it against, making the whole thing an exercise in bureaucracy.

Fraterkes•4h ago
Who says reality isnt fair? Isnt that up to us, the people inhabiting reality?
bananaquant•4h ago
What nobody seems to talk about is that their resulting models are basically garbage. If you look at the last provided confusion matrix, their model is right in about 2/3 of cases when it makes a positive prediction. The actual positives are about 60%. So, any improvement is marginal at best and a far cry from ~90% accuracy you would expect from a model in such a high-stakes scenario. They could have thrown a half of cases out at random and had about the same reduction in case load without introducing any bias into the process.
delusional•3h ago
> What nobody seems to talk about is that their resulting models are basically garbage.

The post does talk about it when it briefly mentions that the goal of building the model (to decrease the number of cases investigated while increasing the rate of finding fraud) wasn't achieved. They don't say any more than that because that's not the point they are making.

Anyway, the project was shelved after a pilot. So your point is entirely false.

bananaquant•3h ago
Good catch about the project being shelved. It is buried pretty deep in the document to the point of making it misleading:

> In late November 2023, the city announced that it would shelve the pilot.

I would agree that implications regarding the use of those models do not hold, but not the ones about their quality.

xyzal•3h ago
You can't tell a project will fail until you undertake it.

Amsterdam didn't deploy their models when they found their outcome is not satisfactory. I find it a perfectly fine result.

GardenLetter27•1h ago
> None of these features explicitly referred to an applicant’s gender or racial background, as well as other demographic characteristics protected by anti-discrimination law. But the model designers were aware that features could be correlated with demographic groups in a way that would make them proxies.

What's the problem with this? It isn't racism, it's literally just Bayes' Law.

crote•17m ago
Let's say you are making a model to judge job applicants. You are aware that the training data is biased in favor of men, so you remove all explicit mentions of gender from their CVs and cover letters.

Upon evaluation, your model seems to accept everyone who mentions a "fraternity" and reject anyone who mentions a "sorority". Swapping out the words turns a strong reject into a strong accept, and vice versa.

But you removed any explicit mention of gender, so surely your model couldn't possibly be showing an anti-women bias, right?