Since TCP-in-UDP seems to be involve implementing end-to-end features over UDP, I feel like a comparison to multipath QUIC might be helpful so that we can understand it better.
My impression from reading about HTTP/3 is that QUIC is just kind of better than TCP in performing a lot of end-to-end functions, like recovery, encryption, error correction, duplicate suppression, congestion control, and delivery acknowledgement, and of course multiplexing the connection. (The advantage of TCP seems like its simpler and more mature, but it's honestly not clear to me where TCP wins and I'd be interested in hearing about the situations in which TCP is better than QUIC.)
So if we're addressing middleboxes screwing with MPTCP by tunneling TCP over UDP, isn't this very similar to what multipath QUIC does? The article seems to argue this is a simpler, lower-overhead solution than VPN tunnels, which I agree, that would seem like the wrong tool for the job, but I can't really tell which of multipath QUIC and MPTCP-over-UDP is simpler; they seem really similar to me and I'd appreciate help differentiating them.
When would one prefer MPTCP-over-UDP over multipath QUIC, and vice versa? How do the two differ in functionality, stability, and ease-of-use?
so none of the security recomendations such exchanging hmac keys and segment counts?
willprice89•6mo ago
kreetx•6mo ago
zamadatix•6mo ago
lxgr•6mo ago
Hikikomori•6mo ago
Calwestjobs•6mo ago
And what is most embarrassing is that truly fully IPV6 capable internet requires less of and lower powered "routers". "routers" will cost single thousands instead of hundred of thousands adn be more capable, speeedier. DDoS mitigations are easier in ipv6 too. And if every customer can have 2^64 IP (or even 2^56) addresses then you do not need "ports" anymore, every service on your server can have their own IP, or even every service customer can have their own ip address how much will that simplify CODE (source of bugs, of latency, of unnecessary payments) and lower energy requirements of login infrastructure ? and debugging ? also just right from bat you can trivially see on upstream router who is initiating DOS... PKI+IPv6 is gift from GODs! If your certificate is not issued for specific ip then "openssl" can drop connection in that instance. Is not that little bit more secure ? faster? less clunky. and with more oversoght for network "manager" ?
Calwestjobs•6mo ago
h4ck_th3_pl4n3t•6mo ago
immibis•6mo ago
It's a shame they still have ports in IPv6, but I can see why: imagine having to ARP (IPv6 calls it ND) every connection separately. At least you can just allocate another privacy address if you need more than 65535 concurrent connections to the same destination.
zamadatix•6mo ago
You still want ports, they actually make networking hardware cheaper overall by moving some of the scaling requirements out of the IP layer and into the transport layer. Imagine needing router which can hold 1,000,000 IPv6<->MAC address bindings just because you have 1,000 clients in your network using new addresses instead of ports! ND code is more complex than the code to bind to ports, but I still like the introduction of ND more than not regardless :).
IPv6 infra will probably never adopt the cert stuff you mention. The protocol is just designed to be able to, it doesn't mandate it. In practice it's almost never done and having everyone do it would likely be harder than getting people off IPv4 has been. On the internet routing side, PKI with BGP doesn't really care about the address format and works fine with IPv4.
For the network manager the 2 biggest changes are 1) All of their client subnets are /64s, no more subnet mask tables. 2) No more NAT, which feeds into the debugging side of things, though some of this is advantage is intentionally lost in a tradeoff for increased privacy via temporary addresses. In the last one it's tempting to tie that back to enormous hardware gains but, in reality, the box at that position of the network needs to statefully track sessions regardless of if it needs to translate them, and that's the majority of the cost.
Bluecobra•6mo ago