Microsoft is never looking for normal, boring ways to build products. A software company does't get much ahead thinking like this. They're using their old and successful strategy of embracing, extending, and extinguishing.
It's absolutely horrible to try and edit.
That's because the structure of a PDF is essentially a bunch of media "streams". It's very easy to say "render a jpeg at this location on the page" but that's about it. It doesn't store, for example, the fact that you might need to wrap words around a page. Instead, it's "Here's a box with text in it".
The only thing that really could make PDF rendering hard is adobe put a whole bunch of garbage into the spec. For example, the full spec had the ability to run javascript and flash at one point (not sure if it does anymore).
[0] https://interoperable-europe.ec.europa.eu/collection/open-so...
I mean… sure? When I saw this headline I was imagining that Microsoft added a brand-new ultracomplicated format. But no, the article is solely about OOXML. Why is the blog post re-litigating a fight that LibreOffice already fought almost 20 years ago?
Mostly I use LyX and pyspread which are close/open enough.
It is called pandoc and a text editor.
But the complexity is not some kind of conspiracy - it’s inherent - it comes from the fact that Office is ancient and very, very complex with a huge number of features. Many features are implemented in backwards compatible way on top of the old version of similar features and then the whole thing has been back ported from a bunch of C structure to XML which has the most woeful and underpowered schema language imaginable.
IIRC one of the many unfortunate decisions made by MS with OOXML (whether intentionally, or not, or both) is to codify a lot of display and formatting quirks directly in the schema with very little explanation or docs. Instead of making it s different namespace or layer.
So, to implement OOXML, you also needed to reverse engineer, say, behavior of Word97 etc.
It’s an entire ecosystem
Also, I have tried to use LibreOffice and you have to learn an entirely new tool. The user interfaces are different. Word has its own issues of course but LibreOffice does not feel as polished
There are things in Word that are legacy and carry overs from another time that carry various nuance. It’s not all documented set of features either
Trying to replicate the entire look and feel is incredibly difficult
Most people are going to encounter Word in a corporate setting and to have them switch to another tool is going to a big hill to climb
Maybe they could even release the source under a copyleft license, so the students can learn from it and maybe contribute.
But MS has built this giant moat of integrated proprietary services around these systems that make it difficult to switch away once you are sucked into the environment.
It takes a pretty sizable expense to switch to anything else, while satisfying all of a companies different workflows for various roles and levels of experience.
If not MS Office + it's M365 Eco system, what then? Google Workspace? That's kinda the same problem in a different color?
We had a lot of marketing and sales people who wanted to use Google Sheets instead of Excel to load sales reports from a shared PG database. This is of course a built-in feature (loading a PG table as a sheet) in Excel. Google Sheets obviously doesn't support any imports. They are all paid plugins, and they all make you pay per row or cell or column.
You can write a plugin to do it, except their funky AppScript (which is a custom synchronous Javascript/V8 environment where there is no async or callbacks, and promises block.
Except, the plugin can only connect to MySQL. PG support ask has been open since 2011. They decided in 2014 that they don't plan to support PG. Then in 2018 they thought maybe they can only support GCP Postgres.[1]
Ok, fine. You make your own API to call and load data. No, you can't return more than 50 MBs. So better split your query.
Oh, you want to load a 50MB CSV? There are 3 different APIs for that:
- "Import from GDrive". This is the one you want. Import 50MB in a couple of seconds. But it also requires the most permissions to full access the user's GDrive
- "Basic Import API". This imports at ~100kbps but not always. gets slower for large data
- "Advanced Import API". This imports at ~250kbps but not always. gets slower for small data
and you need to run your own benchmarks[2][3] to understand which API to use in which context, then keep reruning them as things change.
[1]: https://issuetracker.google.com/issues/36752790?pli=1
[2]: https://gist.github.com/tanaikech/d102c9600ba12a162c667287d2...
[3]: https://gist.github.com/tanaikech/030203c695b308606041587e6d...
This doesn't mean anything.
I collaborate with others, a lot, though. Google is simply better at that
Most people below the age of 30 can switch between Google Docs or Word without blinking. They don't use more than a few of the features of either.
This "big hill" you mention is a fantasy.
The licensing/support is cheaper carries some weight. But Windows to Linux mostly didn't win a lot of fights on the desktop. But Google Docs for collaboration and general simplicity does win over a lot of companies.
I use word processors so rarely that every time it's like learning a new tool. Whether it's Word, Google Doc, LibreOffice, or anything else.
I will say that Google Docs and Word both feel a bit more "polished" than LibreOffice which still feels very distinctly like a 1990's era desktop program. I guess because it is.
Granted, when you need formatting, like for a formal letter, you use a template someone made but this is not what most people use Word for.
And don't get me started on "people wouldn't understand how to put things in bold or italics"; they can barely use Word anyway. Might as well use something much simpler. Office "productivity" suites are over to me.
* https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB-WIt1cZYLm1MMx2FBG9...
Here are some of my Markdown documents:
* https://impacts.to/downloads/lowres/impacts.pdf (99% pure)
* https://pdfhost.io/v/4FeAGGasj_SepiSolar_Highlevel_Software_...
* https://dave.autonoma.ca/blog/2020/04/28/typesetting-markdow...
A lot is possible with Markdown, especially with pandoc extensions.
https://github.com/microsoft/markitdown
I was amazed when I realised that Word docs were just zip files and you could poke around in the xml files embedded inside of them.
I almost implemented a working React -> Word document renderer back in 2017, but it didn't have support for creating the xml tags with : inside of them (which OOXML documents use).
[0] Open Package Convention: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Packaging_Conventions
[0]https://github.com/microsoft/markitdown/blob/da7bcea527ed04c... [1]https://github.com/microsoft/markitdown/blob/da7bcea527ed04c...
On top of that, Office supports OpenDocument formats, just like LibreOffice supports Office formats.
Also, IME the Office XML file format is far better supported by third parties - countless apps read/write them. I have multiple apps installed that can read/write an Office file, but MS Office is the only app on my machine that opens OpenDocument.
Unlike say an IDE or generic text editor where developers are excited to work on and dogfood the product via self-hosting, word processors are kind of boring and require separate testing/QA.
MSFT has the deep pockets to fund that development and testing/QA. LibreOffice doesn't.
The business model is just screaming that GPL'd LibreOffice is toast.
[1] Plug: https://tritium.legal
Lawyers also tend to pore a lot, so it's worth getting the word right! ;-)
Only if Word formats remain dominant. There might be hope with the EU moving off Word that an alternative, real standard might take root.
Microsoft isn't intentionally obfuscating the docx. Docx is a shit-show because hundreds upon hundreds of Microsoft business initiatives, executive pet projects, and ancient compatibility rules have all collided to make a giant pile of dung.
If LibreOffice is worried about what docx does to their productivity ... you should see the fucking engineers lamenting INSIDE Microsoft about what it does to their friggin productivity.
This horseshit isn't anyone's plan. This horseshit is an emergent phenomenon like a fucking termite hill in your back yard ... where no single termite is responsible or knoweldgeable, but all of them together made a pile that breaks your lawnmower.
It's so impressively underhandedly sneaky that Microsoft named their ODF-competitor format “Office Open” just as OpenOffice.org's (LibreOffice's direct ancestor) hype peaked with OO.o 2.0 having ODF as its native format, when MS Office finally had a viable and popular competitor for like the first time ever.
https://www.openoffice.org/press/2.0/press_release.html (2005-10-20)
https://news.microsoft.com/2005/11/21/qa-microsoft-co-sponso... (2005-11-21)
microsoft made a total piece of steaming turd, and its users dont care.
The truth is, no one needs to be compatible these days. Everyone is either:
- using the same software company-wide, whether it's LO, Google Docs or MS Office
- exporting to PDF when sharing docs with someone outside the organization
The real thing that LO is missing is server side hosting and easy syncing... Until they get that, it's just going to be something used by individuals and small orgs.
I still remember, at my university we had LO installed on lab computers, MS Office was a "requirement" for students to purchase, but most profs simply insisted we simply hand in assignments as Google Docs links because there was incompatibilities between .doc, .docx, the formats made by LO, etc... Google Docs were the only ones that could be shared and be 100% identical on every computer with the link.
If LO had a web hosted solution and provided easy to install server code for organizations, they'd dominate. But they don't...
kazinator•4h ago
People lock in people.
majorchord•4h ago
What good do you think this does? I'm genuinely curious.
tracker1•4h ago
ChromeOS another 2.7% and macOS around 24%.
edit: If I were to guess, Valve/Steam is solely responsible for at least 1 of those 5%.
kazinator•3h ago
Because it doesn't necessarily affect anyone. Using Windows ipso facto doesn't mean you will send someone a file they can't read without a Microsoft program.
I have two Windows machines in my home; they have LibreOffice on them, as well as Firefox.
ranger_danger•1h ago
People send me Outlook messages all the time that I can't read at all, and many Excel spreadsheets and Powerpoint presentations with features that aren't supported in anything on Linux. I literally have to use a Windows VM with proper Office to read this stuff. And not only work documents, but documents from my children's school/teachers as well.