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GPT might be an information virus (2023)

https://nonint.com/2023/03/09/gpt-might-be-an-information-virus/
85•3willows•6h ago

Comments

hayden_dev•5h ago
"might"
anthk•4h ago
You are right. The web it's already rotten. There are tons of AI generated articles on supposed serious news sites. These will be worse over time.
DrammBA•4h ago
"2023"
andy99•4h ago
I think it is an information virus, but differently - it's homogenized everything, and made people dumber and lazier. It's poisoned public and professional discourse by reducing writing and thinking from the richness of humanity to one narrow style with a tiny latent space, and simultaneously convinced people that this is what good writing looks like. And it's erased thought from board classes of endeavor. This virus is much worse than the relatively benign symptoms described in the article.
crimsoneer•4h ago
This is how the church felt about the printing press.
XorNot•4h ago
Who is "the Church" in this analogy?
rolph•3h ago
refers to the gutenberg press, and mass production of printed works, threatening the siloed, ivory towers of knowledge at the time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printing_press#Gutenberg.27s_p...

if everyone has a bible, then who needs the church to tell you what it says.

ceejayoz•2h ago
Relying on an AI oracle to think for you is just as bad as relying on a priestly one.
LtWorf•2h ago
> if everyone has a bible, then who needs the church to tell you what it says.

Clearly, all the protestants who burned more witches than the catholics ever did, and kept at it for centuries after the inquisition had stopped. But that's just my opinion here.

brookst•3h ago
People who consider themselves exceptionally smart, who are well educated and write well, who only ever need to communicate in their native tongue ye, and who have the luxury of investing time in developing a personal writing style.

It is a good analogy. There is great concern that the unwashed masses won’t know how to handle this tool and will produce information today’s curators would not approve of.

andy99•3h ago
It's an extremely poor analogy, the original point is its an information virus telling people what to think (or thinking for them). It's the exact opposite of the allowing people to think for themselves that came with the enlightenment, it's back to the days of the "church" (someone else) telling people how to think and literally writing their words for them.
mensetmanusman•3h ago
This analogy is going places.
nerevarthelame•3h ago
While the church feared people interpreting information on their own, with LLMs it's the opposite: we fear that most interpretation of information will be done through a singular bland AI extruder. Tech companies running LLMs become the pre-press churches, with individuals depending on them to analyze and interpret information on their behalf.
majormajor•2h ago
The church would've LOVED everyone asking the same one-to-four sources everything. ChatGPT is literally a controllable oracle. Quite the opposite of the printing press.

"Running your own models on your own hardware" is an irrelevant rounding error here compared to the big-company models.

toofy•1h ago
this would be the opposite. the llm situation may be heading back towards something similar the church age.

the church did all of the reading and understanding for us. owners of the church gobbled up as much information as it could (encouraging confessions) and then the church owners decided when, how, where and which of that information flowed to us.

A4ET8a8uTh0_v2•4h ago
Like most progress, it made some things easier ( and some things worse as a result ). What I do find particularly fascinating is that it is doing that even in professions that should know better ( lawyers, doctors ). That my boss uses it is no surprise me though. I always suspected he never really read my emails.
kldg•2h ago
I've definitely been surprised by how it's being used; it's replacing people in places I don't think (even as a closet AI/LLM enthusiast) AI should ever be used: elder care, customer support (even on phone lines), for homework grading. -But I shouldn't have been so surprised, because some were already using robots for these tasks (or maybe not robots explicitly, but making CSRs/similar stick to scripts); my daughter was taking college placement tests recently -- even the essay questions were graded by software, and she's watched by software as she writes it. These things still seem to me like jobs which fundamentally require a human touch -- it's been especially amazing to me teachers are using AI to detect AI; you can't determine whether or not a robot wrote it, but you can assign a grade to it? Huh??

I have a very vocally anti-AI friend, but there is one thing he always goes on about that confuses me to no end: hates AI, strongly wants an AI sexbot, is constantly linking things trying to figure out how to get one, and asking me and the other nerds in our group about how the tech would work. No compromises anywhere except for one of the most human experiences possible. :shrug:

A4ET8a8uTh0_v2•2h ago
It made me chuckle, because I absolutely buy the anecdotal anti-AI friend. On the other hand, if he applied himself, maybe he could figure it out. I honestly can't say I am not intruiged by the possibility.
sho_hn•1h ago
I think to me the weirdest and most unexpected (not so much in retrospect) AI use is that people will use it all day long to navigate chat conversations with their boyfriends/girlfriends, having it suggest romantic replies, etc.

I expect people to be lazy, but that we'd outsource feelings was surprising.

doctorpangloss•2h ago
People want AI lawyers and they really invented AI judges.
arthurcolle•1h ago
Usually judges start out as lawyers
3willows•4h ago
Perhaps that is the real danger. Everyone except a small elite who (rightly) feel they understand how LLMs work would simply give up serious thinking and accept whatever "majority" opinion is in their little social media bubble. We wouldn't have the patience to really engage with genuinely different viewpoints any more.

I recall some Chinese language discussion about the experience of studying abroad in the Anglophone world in the early 20th century and the early 21st century. Paradoxically, even if you are a university student, it may now be harder to break out of the bubble and make friends with non-Chinese/East Asians than before. In the early 20th century, you'd probably be one of the few non-White students and had to break out of your comfort zone. Now if you are Chinese, there'd be people from a similar background virtually anywhere you study in the West, and it is almost unnatural to make a deliberate effort to break out of that.

3willows•4h ago
The point being: when you find someone who is tailoring all his/her/its attention to you and you alone, why bother talking to anyone else.
Hupriene•2h ago
That's some real obsessive stalker logic there.
makk•3h ago
It hasn't homogenized everything. It's further exposed humans for who they are. Humans are the virus.
mensetmanusman•3h ago
(1999)
jvm___•3h ago
Agent Smith had it right when he was interviewing Morpheus in the Matrix.
goatlover•2h ago
And then ironically Smith became a virus threatening both humans and machines. However, Agent Smith was the Oracle's tool to force a treaty between the machines and humans. As the Architect said at the end of Revolutions, she played a dangerous game.

But it was the only way forward to a new equilibrium.

kordlessagain•3h ago
People have always tended toward taking shortcuts. It's human nature. So saying "this technology makes people dumber or lazier" is tricky, because you first need a baseline: exactly how dumb or lazy were people before?

To quantify it, you'd need measurable changes. For example, if you showed that after widespread LLM adoption, standardized test scores dropped, people's vocabulary shrank significantly, or critical thinking abilities (measured through controlled tests) degraded, you'd have concrete evidence of increased "dumbness."

But here's the thing: tools, even the simplest ones, like college research papers, always have value depending on context. A student rewriting existing knowledge into clearer language has utility because they improve comprehension or provide easier access. It's still useful work.

Yes, by default, many LLM outputs sound similar because they're trained to optimize broad consensus of human writing. But it's trivially easy to give an LLM a distinct personality or style. You can have it write like Hemingway or Hunter S. Thompson. You can make it sound academic, folksy, sarcastic, or anything else you like. These traits demonstrably alter output style, information handling, and even the kind of logic or emotional nuance applied.

Thus, the argument that all LLM writing is homogeneous doesn't hold up. Rather, what's happening is people tend to use default or generic prompts, and therefore receive default or generic results. That's user choice, not a technological constraint.

In short: people were never uniformly smart or hardworking, so blaming LLMs entirely for declining intellectual rigor is oversimplified. The style complaint? Also overstated: LLMs can easily provide rich diversity if prompted correctly. It's all about how they're used, just like any other powerful tool in history, and just like my comment here.

majormajor•2h ago
We could wait for further studies, but some already exist: https://www.media.mit.edu/publications/your-brain-on-chatgpt...

You say it's human nature to take shortcuts, so the danger of things that provide easy homogenizing shortcuts should be obvious. It reduces the chance of future innovation by making it more easy for more people have their perspectives silently narrowed.

Personally I don't need to see more anecdotal examples matching that study to have a pretty strong "this is becoming a problem" leaning. If you learn and expand your mind by doing the work, and now you aren't doing the work, what happens? It's not just "the AI told me this, it can't be wrong" for the uneducated, it's the equivalent of "google maps told me to drive into the pond" for the white-collar crowd that always had those lazy impulses but overcame them through their desire to make a comfortable living.

majormajor•2h ago
https://www.media.mit.edu/publications/your-brain-on-chatgpt... This seems relevant here in a "the results agree" way.
sho_hn•1h ago
What's weird is that so many people shrug this off with "eh, it's what they said about the calculator".

Which to me is roughly as bad a take as "LLMs are just fancy auto-complete" was.

I feel it's worth reminding ourselves that evolution on the planet has rarely opted for human-level intelligence and that we possess it might just be a quirk we shouldn't take for granted; it may well be that we could accidentally habituate and eventually breed outselves dumber and subsist fine (perhaps in different numbers), never realizing what we willingly gave up.

computerex•21m ago
To be honest I think you and others over play it. ChatGPT and LLM's in general sound pretty corporatey. A lot of the at least English written text online is pretty homogenous in style.
anthk•4h ago
There are public sources of information such as a curated WIkipedia, open content from Kiwix, Gutenberg Math books and OpenStreetMap for maps. Better, you can download offline and curated version of these so anyone can have a working snapshot anytime. That's good to avoid future AI tamperings. As long as these as AI free, we are potentialy in the right direction.
boredatoms•4h ago
We can only trust a snapshot from pre AI years, eventually everything will be contaminated
brookst•3h ago
s/AI/internet
ayaros•4h ago
We're going to have to go in the opposite direction and rely on directories or lists of verified human-made/accurate content. It will be like the old days of yahoo and web-indexes all over again.
DaveZale•4h ago
A few years ago, some talk briefly circulated about local internet efforts, possibly run by public libraries.

Local news coverage has really suffered these past several years. Wouldn't it be great to see relevant local news emerge again, written by humans for humans?

That approach might be a good start. Use a cloud service that forbids AI bot scraping to protect copyright?

ayaros•4h ago
This doesn't seem to be structured differently than a standard-fare social media app. All the same issues with human verification on those apps would apply to this too.

Unless you mean a platform only for vetted local journalists...

righthand•4h ago
Tie the account to the Library Card and then you can open it up to anyone.
ceejayoz•2h ago
> Wouldn't it be great to see relevant local news emerge again, written by humans for humans?

That sounds a lot like Nextdoor. With all the horrors that come with it.

MPSimmons•3h ago
I had the thought the other day that one of the most valuable things a human-driven website could offer would be a webring linking to other human-driven websites
JKCalhoun•3h ago
I'm a fan of bringing back Web Rings.

Perhaps a site could kick off where people proposed sites for Web Rings, edited them. The sites in question could somehow adopt them — perhaps by directly pulling from the Web Ring site.

And while we're at it, no reason for the Web "Ring" not to occasionally branch, bifurcate, and even rejoin threads from time to time. It need not be a simple linked list who's tail points back to it's head.

Happy to mock something up if someone smarter than me can fill in the details.

Pick a topic: Risograph printers? 6502 Assembly? What are some sites that would be in the loop? Would a 6502 Assembly ring have "orthogonal branches" to the KIM-1 computer (ring)? How about a "roulette" button that jumps you to somewhere at random in the ring? (So not linear.) Is it a tree or a ring? If a tree, can you traverse in reverse?

ayaros•1h ago
Web rings are a thing I've been thinking about a bit. Anyone know any good ones? There are a couple I reached out to for one of the projects I'm working on, to get my site on them, but I never got responses. There are also some webrings I've come across that have died or been retired. :(
JKCalhoun•43m ago
Yeah, the dynamic (remote) web ring server I am conceiving would handle dead the links in the ring.

There's still the buy-in problem though. Convincing the owners of the sites you want in the ring to modify their HTML to dynamically fetch and display the ring links.

ayaros•1h ago
That's something I really enjoy about web 1.0: links pages. We need to bring back the days when every site had a giant list of links to other sites. I don't care if half of them end up as dead links. This is part of what made the web fun. You'd come across a site, see what it had to offer, and then you'd check the links page and find five, ten, or 20 other sites offering similar things. No need for algorithms tracking your every move to recommend things to you... the content itself would do that.
Footprint0521•2h ago
I feel like SEO trash has made this a must have for me for the past few years already. If it’s not stack overflow, Reddit, or stack exchange, I’m wasting my time
ayaros•1h ago
Or MDN, which is yet another site that seems to be constantly ripped off by parasitic AI-generated SEO sites...
ayaros•1h ago
(To clarify, I'm not suggesting this is necessarily a bad thing)
4b11b4•4h ago
virus is a good way to think about the effect radius
resters•4h ago
It’s a method of storing information that makes it far more useful than previous methods.

Sure we can idealize feats of the human brain such as memorizing digits of pi. LLMs put more human behavior into the same category as memorizing digits of pi, and make the previously scarce “idea clay” available to the masses.

It’s not the same as a human brain or human knowledge but it is still a very useful tool just like the tools that let us do maths without memorizing hundreds of digits of pi.

aspenmayer•4h ago
Curious Yellow, anyone?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasshouse_(novel)

> "Curious Yellow is a design study for a really scary worm: one that uses algorithms developed for peer-to-peer file sharing networks to intelligently distribute countermeasures and resist attempts to decontaminate the infected network".

Hat tip to HN user cstross (as I discovered the idea via Charlie’s blog):

http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-archive/October_2002.ht...

These topics were first brought to my attention through his amazing novel Glasshouse. I’ve had the pleasure of having my first edition copy of the book signed by the author, and I then promptly loaned it indefinitely to a friend, who then misplaced it. The man himself is a friendly curmudgeon who I am happy to have met, and I have enjoyed reading about the future through his insights into the past and present.

Also I must acknowledge Brandon Wiley, who wrote the inspiration for Curious Yellow as far as I can tell.

https://blanu.net/curious_yellow.html

hnpolicestate•4h ago
The same thing could have been said about the computer in general and masses adopting the personal computer.

That's how I view LLM's now. They are what follows computers in the evolution of information technology.

androng•3h ago
i heard from an artist that Pinterest is full of AI-generated stuff now so artists looking for references have to go back to physical books for art references
Havoc•2h ago
It’ll certainly get more noisy but I don’t quite buy the total communication collapse implied here.

Humans still have an inherent need to be heard and hear others. Even in a pretty extreme scenario I think bubbles of organic discussion will continue

mwkaufma•2h ago
"Outside of the fate of the web, I see GPT as a monumental force of good." [Citation Needed]
thomashop•1h ago
The rest was fine without citations, but the part you disagree with needs them?
johnnienaked•2h ago
It gives me recollection back to the Simpsons episode where Itchy and Scratchy writers go on strike. What follows was a beautiful scene of children rubbing their eyes in unfamiliar sunlight as they're forced to go outside, making up games, playing on playgrounds, all while Beethovens Pastorale hums in the background.

I'm all for it. Let big tech destroy their cash cow, then maybe we can rebuild it in OUR interest.

t1234s•2h ago
Is there any way these LLM tools watermark their output in a way that keeps them from re-training on output generated from the same LLM?
StarlaAtNight•2h ago
Nice try, AI!
konfusinomicon•2h ago
strategic em-dash placement is my guess but only the machine knows the code
gfody•1h ago
I think we should prefer content-farm content to be replaced w/generated content. ultimately it'll compress back to the prompt that generated it and that'll be easier to filter out.
jcalx•1h ago
Alternatively stated:

> The only explanation is that something has coded nonsense in a way that poses as a useful message; only after wasting time and effort does the deception becomes apparent. The signal functions to consume the resources of a recipient for zero payoff and reduced fitness. The signal is a virus.

> Viruses do not arise from kin, symbionts, or other allies.

> The signal is an attack.

―Blindsight, by Peter Watts

TZubiri•21m ago
Is that the sci fi novel about an alien race that is annoyed and feels attacked by noise?
iluvlawyering•1h ago
And what if intelligence as measured by computation complexity reaches a natural limit inevitably marked by a detached compassionate disposition? Does the cure then become the virus?
dang•1h ago
Discussed (a bit) at the time:

GPT Might Be an Information Virus - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36675335 - July 2023 (31 comments)

GPT might be an information virus - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35218078 - March 2023 (1 comment)

tomlockwood•1h ago
I want to suggest that the virus is even more insidious, and is an organism that feeds on VC money, and it is evolving via a substrate of human programmers to become more efficient at consuming it. And like an organism evolving towards survival, it gives no shits about the utility generated in return for the thing it eats.

And, as time goes on, it'll get more efficient at the consumption and waste less and less energy on the generation of utility. It is an organism that needs servers to feed and generates hype like a deep-sea monster glows its lure.

SrslyJosh•8m ago
> * For what it’s worth – I am personally happy that a company that is committed to “doing it right” is spear-heading this change.

Seems to be working out great so far. (=

Performance and telemetry analysis of Trae IDE, ByteDance's VSCode fork

https://github.com/segmentationf4u1t/trae_telemetry_research
691•segfault22•8h ago•247 comments

Enough AI copilots, we need AI HUDs

https://www.geoffreylitt.com/2025/07/27/enough-ai-copilots-we-need-ai-huds
111•walterbell•3h ago•26 comments

Dumb Pipe

https://www.dumbpipe.dev/
593•udev4096•12h ago•131 comments

Big agriculture mislead the public about the benefits of biofuels

https://lithub.com/how-big-agriculture-mislead-the-public-about-the-benefits-of-biofuels/
11•littlexsparkee•59m ago•2 comments

I hacked my washing machine

https://nexy.blog/2025/07/27/how-i-hacked-my-washing-machine/
147•JadedBlueEyes•6h ago•60 comments

Blender: Beyond Mouse and Keyboard

https://code.blender.org/2025/07/beyond-mouse-keyboard/
52•dagmx•3d ago•13 comments

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https://www.reddit.com/r/degoogle/s/YxmPgFes8a
335•cft•4h ago•142 comments

Making Postgres slower

https://byteofdev.com/posts/making-postgres-slow/
156•AsyncBanana•5h ago•14 comments

Solid protocol restores digital agency

https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2025/07/how-solid-protocol-restores-digital-agency.html
8•speckx•3d ago•3 comments

ZUSE – The Modern IRC Chat for the Terminal Made in Go/Bubbletea

https://github.com/babycommando/zuse
35•babycommando•3h ago•8 comments

Return of wolves to Yellowstone has led to a surge in aspen trees

https://www.livescience.com/animals/land-mammals/return-of-wolves-to-yellowstone-has-led-to-a-surge-in-aspen-trees-unseen-for-80-years
366•geox•4d ago•193 comments

Why I write recursive descent parsers, despite their issues (2020)

https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/programming/WhyRDParsersForMe
38•blobcode•3d ago•17 comments

Ask HN: What are you working on? (July 2025)

133•david927•9h ago•383 comments

IBM Keyboard Patents

https://sharktastica.co.uk/topics/patents
47•tart-lemonade•6h ago•3 comments

The JJ VCS workshop: A zero-to-hero speedrun

https://github.com/jkoppel/jj-workshop
91•todsacerdoti•14h ago•2 comments

Designing a flatpack bed

https://kevinlynagh.com/newsletter/2025_07_flatpack/
28•todsacerdoti•4h ago•3 comments

Bits 0x02: switching to orion as a browser

https://andinfinity.eu/post/2025-07-24-bits-0x02/
30•fside•2d ago•2 comments

Tom Lehrer has died

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/27/arts/music/tom-lehrer-dead.html
471•detaro•9h ago•84 comments

AlphaDec: A human-readable alternative to ULID/Snowflake IDs

https://github.com/firasd/alphadec
26•firasd•3d ago•6 comments

Formal specs as sets of behaviors

https://surfingcomplexity.blog/2025/07/26/formal-specs-as-sets-of-behaviors/
26•Bogdanp•6h ago•2 comments

Why does a fire truck cost $2m

https://thehustle.co/originals/why-does-a-fire-truck-cost-2-million
91•Guid_NewGuid•1h ago•55 comments

Allianz Life says 'majority' of customers' personal data stolen in cyberattack

https://techcrunch.com/2025/07/26/allianz-life-says-majority-of-customers-personal-data-stolen-in-cyberattack/
210•thm•8h ago•118 comments

Britain's spies-for-hire are running wild

https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-british-spies-private-intelligence-government-ministers/
72•bingden•2d ago•28 comments

Claude Code Router

https://github.com/musistudio/claude-code-router
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The many JavaScript runtimes of the last decade

https://buttondown.com/whatever_jamie/archive/the-many-many-many-javascript-runtimes-of-the-last-decade/
148•LinguaBrowse•12h ago•71 comments

BlueOS Kernel – Written in Rust, compatible with POSIX

https://github.com/vivoblueos/kernel
115•dacapoday•3d ago•21 comments

GPT might be an information virus (2023)

https://nonint.com/2023/03/09/gpt-might-be-an-information-virus/
85•3willows•6h ago•68 comments

National Aviation Reporting Center on Anomalous Phenomena

https://www.narcap.org
25•handfuloflight•7h ago•14 comments

Katharine Graham: The Washington Post

https://fs.blog/knowledge-project-podcast/outliers-katharine-graham/
77•feross•4d ago•29 comments

Update Complete: U.S. Nuclear Weapons No Longer Need Floppy Disks (2019)

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/24/us/nuclear-weapons-floppy-disks.html
28•voxadam•3h ago•15 comments