Apart from that, also back in the day people were still building pages using e.g. Dreamweaver, so we also put together a thing that could leverage a designer's HTML that rendered as a complete placeholder page. That "works as plain .HTML" became the template, used YAML as data, and Enlive (a Clojure lib) to turn the HTML with its placeholders into a template and then stuff YAML sidecar data into it to generate new HTML.
Not long after, Caddy's markdown support had promise, but agree with another commenter here that a few years ago astro.build started hitting a more interesting spot. In the middle ages between those, yay pandoc.
Recently found myself saying in conversations that, "Markdown is arguably one of the most valuable file type we have; media, documents, code blocks of almost any language, ... all in one place for further processing."
└── Dey well; Be well
Best of all, if you use simple unchanged files for other dynamic stuff like JSON etc, you can just generate those on build and serve those files in the host directly as the 'response' to a simple REST request, which is sometimes overlooked despite being the most fundamental form of a REST API.
I came across this after researching various options for a website that had, mostly for my own entertainment, restrictions on wanting to be mostly statically generated but customizable easily without learning a lot of new syntax / etc, something JSX-like with Markdown support etc, and MDX was an immediate find - and astro was the easiest SSG I found for it after trying with 11ty and several others. Actually felt like a delight playing with it.
Built a few reusable templates and JSON for storing game data (maybe not ideal at scale, but seems to be working for now). JavaScript, CSS, and MDX. Hosted on Netlify which is an 'Official Deployment Partner'. It's light and simple. So far has been a joy to work with.
Other web frameworks support this too, if you look for "static export" options. Next.js, for example, supports this via the getInitialProps function.
What I like especially about Astro, that you perform this data loading during build time from any component/file on your page. With Next.js, this is only possible via the top level Page component.
And if using app router model, that is part of React server components.
There are a lot of nooks in crannies in this article.
- [1] https://mdxjs.com/
MDX is great and I like to use it.
I wrote quite a bit about Fluid, which is the C# implementation of Liquid. https://deanebarker.net/tech/fluid/
But if you process your markup at build time into it's finished HTML, then you can host it anywhere - anytime and it'll work.
It's in #6 and #7
https://spec.commonmark.org/0.31.2/#html-blocks
I too ran a site on markdown with HTML. Originally I had my own hacky way of using HTML which was effectively to (1) replace all HTML with placeholder_number (2) format the markdown (3) replace placeholder_number with the html that used to be there. Not as simple as that but close.
Eventually i switched to a commonmark spec formatter and then tried to fix any old pages that had spaces in the HTML. Some were basically hard to fix like a pre section with code inside so I added some other hacks to do the same as above for those sections by surrounding them with {{#html}}....stuff..with...blank...lines{{/html}}.
So now my solution is handlebars.js meets markdown-it.
I've designed it for myself, deliberately to work around the flaws with web components mentioned. It hugely speeds up my process of writing pages for my blog (after trying everything, I've ended up just writing plain html) because I can define a component that holds all the boilerplate of the page (header, css, etc) and then write my pages as `<pagelayout> <p> body content here </p> </pagelayout>` and have that be expanded into proper valid HTML
It hits a sweet spot for me.
(I swear, I have never tried to do something this foolish… I swear…)..."
I will say, that almost didn't make me laugh, bur, I will not swear.
I've recently come off from one such rabbit hole - A CLI tool for Pre-processing vue project templates. It was over-engineered.
Will probably go back to re-build it when I get the free time.
└── Dey well; Be well
Org mode keeps me locked in for this very reason.
No need for Emacs... pandoc (which I use) builds my static site. It supports enough Org markup to let me compile header metadata, latex, footnotes, markup etc. as well as inline live JavaScript code and use it in-page, just like I'd do in a regular stand-alone HTML page.
For example: a post with inlined static HTML and JavaScript, freely mixed-and-matched with org-native source block syntax. No plugins needed.
Raw: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/adityaathalye/shite/refs/h...
Pandoc-rendered live site: Compare Raw source with this section: https://www.evalapply.org/posts/animate-text-art-javascript/...
Github-rendered in repo (not github pages): It is (surprisingly) good enough for most Org content, including generating a nice Table of Contents... Except for any footnotes, and inlined or hosted JavaScript source (understandably, security may be a concern). https://github.com/adityaathalye/shite/blob/master/sources/p...
superkuh•5mo ago
But this style of custom-elements requires successful javascript program execution to achieve that "HTML" document. Just like markdown requires some parser program to turn it in to HTML. It's not really fully an HTML document.
It's a good idea. It just would be a better one to write the custom-elements as wrappers for actual HTML elements. Like how https://blog.jim-nielsen.com/2023/html-web-components-an-exa... shows instead of trying to do it SPA style and requiring perfect JS execution for anything to show properly.
HTML mark-up really isn't that heavy. The avoidance of it seems mostly to be because it's considered "old" and "old" is bad, or at least not useful on a resume. But it's old because it's so good it's stuck around for a long time. Only machine generated HTML is bulky. Hand written can be just as neat and readable as any Markdown.
spankalee•5mo ago
superkuh•5mo ago
lelandfe•5mo ago
I also think “turn JS on” is a fairly reasonable ask these days. A lot of the web tends to break when CSS is disabled or fails, too.
spankalee•5mo ago
superkuh•5mo ago
Usually because the web dev have used some new Javascript feature only $latest JS engines support. HTML and CSS if they're there they're there. Sure, there's caniuse for HTML and CSS. But they only have to load. The text/images/etc will be there. JS both has to be loaded and executed. If the later doesn't happen just right then the text and other multi-media won't be there. It's a very big difference.
troupo•5mo ago
o11c•5mo ago
rustystump•5mo ago
That astonishingly long and researched read loses impact when it draws a primarily moral based argument in the thesis. Being fast is better for both the privileged and underprivileged.
Moral handwringing rarely moves people to action.
troupo•5mo ago
My conclusion directly derives from the article. If your app relies on Javascript, it will be non-functional/broken/unusable for a huge number of people while their devices struggle to download, unzip, parse and run your JS bundles.
BTW. It's worse with web components built with default assumptions (without bundling). Since `import` statements will cause a long waterfall as each component loads its dependencies.
rustystump•5mo ago
I think there are a group of people who are salty that js became “the lang” for the web. Another group of people loath the framework insanity of webdev. I count myself among the ladder not the former. I equally hate all languages.
Js is heavily overused but the “web” of today is not the web of the 90s or 2010s which some people cannot get over.
thangalin•5mo ago
pandoc has an extension for this:
https://pandoc.org/demo/example33/8.18-divs-and-spans.html
KeenWrite, my (R) Markdown editor, supports pandoc annotations:
https://youtu.be/7icc4oZB2I4?list=PLB-WIt1cZYLm1MMx2FBG9KWzP...
> Just like markdown requires some parser program to turn it in to HTML.
Or XHTML, which is XML, which can then be transformed into TeX macros, and then typeset into a PDF file with a theme (much like CSS stylizes HTML).
https://youtu.be/3QpX70O5S30?list=PLB-WIt1cZYLm1MMx2FBG9KWzP...
This allows separating content from presentation, allowing them to vary independently.