[1] https://patents.google.com/patent/JP2002542493A5/en%EF%BF%BC
So I suppose if Massimo is going to use a technical legality to extend then Apple can use a technical legality to avoid.
The only IP that companies can own now are specific methods/improvements, not the base idea of measuring SpO2 with light. All Apple has to do is avoid the specific improvements that Masimo owns and they are fine.
But, in short, no, not yet: https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/safety-communications/do...
I believe a firm in Uk holds a patent for it and Apple has partnered with them a while ago.
https://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-takes-key-step-towards-b...
> This update was enabled by a recent U.S. Customs ruling.
I can't find the ruling in question, though, so I'm not sure what they mean.
I have a real finger-based one bought during COVID that I trust more.
Regular pulse oxygen meters are cheap and reliable.
It does not inspire me to move up their range when this watch eventually dies: if they can't get the basic feature working, I have a hard time seeing how they're going to manage anything trickier.
That guy is a great reference, and through his videos you can find various measures where he compares devices against reference devices (e.g. the Polar H10 for heart rate for instance). A lot of the reliability of these devices relies upon a tight fit as well.
For anyone remotely healthy, 100% of the time your real value will be between 95% and 99%, and there is almost no diagnostic value to it. Heart rate is actually interesting and is something you can learn from and work towards. SpO2 is just "eh...neat".
[1] https://www.drugs.com/medical-answers/normal-oxygen-level-so...
Normal in humans is definitely relative and medicine has tended to assume that if we average 1000 humans (in too many cases, 1000 white college age men) that's what human normal is, which is crazy even beyond obvious problems like " people normally have 1.999 legs apparently".
So variability in the sensing is pretty normal, and you want to look at long-term trends rather than individual measurements.
As a result, for darker-skinned patients, oxygen saturation readings can read as normal when they are, in fact, dangerously low.
https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2024/pulse-oximeters-racial-bia...When everyone starting looking at every percentage point of their SpO2 during COVID as if it were life or death, the FDA had to remind people of this:
https://www.fda.gov/news-events/fda-brief/fda-brief-fda-warn...
You would be unable to read an accurate pulse oximeter at 80% because you would have lost consciousness. Doctors have to worry about false negatives just as much as false positives with those things.
It appears the patent is for "User-Worn Device for Noninvasively Measuring a Physiological Parameter of a User". So Apple is simply moving the logic to a non user-worn device - like a phone - to get around the problem. (this is my quick read / conjecture)
Here is the original patent https://patents.google.com/patent/US10912502B2/en
I mean, we don't have IR blasters on any of our personal devices anymore, and arguably it would be nice to be able to control my TV with my phone like I could with my Palm Pilot forever ago, but that's not in vogue anymore.
Also all my TVs also have apps that function as a remote control.
Interestingly enough my main TV an LG has a remote that controls the tv using RF. I don’t even know if it would work with an IR blaster.
brandonb•4h ago
The Apple Watch hardware is otherwise the same. The back of the watch shines light of a specific wavelength into your skin and measures the reflected light. Heart rate sensing uses green (525 nm) and infrared (850–940 nm) light; blood oxygen sensing added a red light at 660 nm in 2020.
The iPhone will now calculate the ratio of absorbed red to infrared light, then apply calibration constants from experimental data to estimate blood oxygen saturation.
More detailed writeup on how the technology works is here: https://www.empirical.health/metrics/oxygen/
BallsInIt•2h ago
sneak•2h ago
0cf8612b2e1e•1h ago
spogbiper•1h ago
thebruce87m•1h ago
spogbiper•1h ago
FirmwareBurner•16m ago
How people on HN can support monopolization of markets and killing of competition is beyond me, since in the end it always bites them in the ass, yet this lesson seems to be quickly forgotten.
johnfn•13m ago
mrcwinn•9m ago
>How HN can support monopolization of markets and killing of [sic] competition is beyond me.
That suggests HN is a monoculture of some sort of united front. It is not. Diversity of opinion is best for this community (and all communities).
And, sorry, what competition was killed off here? I, as the consumer, was never considering Massimo for my blood oxygen measurement needs. I bought an Apple Watch and just want it to be as feature-full as possible. So does Apple.
soperj•1h ago
krferriter•1h ago
scarface_74•1h ago
blizdiddy•28m ago
nkrisc•25m ago
Probably a net-negative.
OkayPhysicist•1h ago
gibolt•1h ago
Not arguing Apple shouldn't poach, just that your suggestion doesn't work.
OkayPhysicist•16m ago
boringg•1h ago
scarface_74•1h ago
Should I be treating my employer “like family” and care about “the mission”?
hu3•49m ago
JustExAWS•43m ago
Dayshine•35m ago
JustExAWS•29m ago
But you are coming awfully close to advocating for non competes which is explicitly not allowed in CA.
lurk2•31m ago
JustExAWS•16m ago
tshaddox•16m ago
do_not_redeem•48m ago
JustExAWS•41m ago
We like software patents now?
do_not_redeem•29m ago
https://patents.google.com/patent/US10912502B2/
runako•24m ago
The company does $2B in revenue and spends close to $800 million annually in sales, general and admin. This is over 3x their R&D budget. (For reference, Apple's R&D spend is higher than its SG&A spend.)
Per levels.fyi, Masimo is paying senior SDEs in HCOL $150k. They could 10x the comp to these critical employees without it being more than a rounding error in their numbers. (I don't think they would have had to go to 10x. Most people would practically tattoo a brand on themselves for a one-time bonus of $1m.)
Long story short: Masimo does indeed have the money to compete on salary with Apple for this set of employees. They chose to spend the money on attorneys instead.
Some companies don't value engineers. That often works, until they end up in an engineering competition against companies that do value engineers.
boringg•13m ago
OkayPhysicist•18m ago
hu3•1h ago
the sensible thing would be to license the tech
soperj•1h ago
7thpower•1h ago
scarface_74•1h ago
I see no issue. Would you have preferred what happened in the Jobs era where 7 of the largest tech firms colluded not to hire from each other’s company?
Teever•46m ago
Because they hobbled competitors and innovation then they're able to do it now.
It's really hard to determine how detrimental their actions have been to the job market for software engineers.
It is entirely possible that every software engineer is worse off because Apple severely distorted the market and prevented many competitors from growing to be competitors to Apple and what ever offer Apple made to these people pales to what they could be making if Jobs hadn't done what he did.
JustExAWS•38m ago
How is all Apple’s fault? And are you really saying that the iPhone wouldn’t have happened if Apple hadn’t gotten into these agreements?
In your alternate universe would Nokia or Rim (who wasn’t involved in the agreement) still been relevant?
0x457•22m ago
anonu•38m ago
Angostura•2h ago
Sorry, maybe I missed it - but source for this?
chedabob•2h ago
> sensor data from the Blood Oxygen app on Apple Watch will be measured and calculated on the paired iPhone
unglaublich•2h ago
spogbiper•1h ago
mbirth•26m ago
BugsJustFindMe•2h ago
kube-system•1h ago
abirch•38m ago