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Universal Tool Calling Protocol (UTCP)

https://github.com/universal-tool-calling-protocol/python-utcp
42•edweis•2d ago

Comments

pvtmert•3h ago
Soon, they will discover APIs. (Application Programming Interfaces). Where programs interact with each other with given contracts/protocols/prototypes.

/pun

otabdeveloper4•3h ago
Sounds complex. We'll need an AI-enabled Google or Microsoft to figure this stuff out for us and sell as a cloud subscription service.
blef•2h ago
Never heard of it. Is API the thing we develop for MCPs to interact with?
_zoltan_•2h ago
yes but we need a lot of SOAP and XML. soon. /s :)
mrheosuper•2h ago
Then MSFT discovers COM.
orphea•59m ago
That's fine. Wait until AI bros discover COM (Context Orchestration Mechanisms).
IanCal•2h ago
The common but lazy joke. This is about connecting agents which have a specific set of requirements about the apis they can call and existing APIs.
donperignon•3h ago
I have the same feeling as 2010-2015 with the js ecosystem craziness. These half baked ideas. Please we need to stop, we don’t need extra layers of abstraction and tooling that is not really solving any problem, it’s just ego tripping to create something and to get GitHub stars.
TZubiri•2h ago
Maybe we can release a buzzword thing called Tool Calling Protocol. And it's just TCP.

Or Contextual Shared Variables

Or eXecution Model Language

or..

taneq•2h ago
Damn these Tool-related Language Additions.
franky47•1h ago
Context Sharing System and Heuristic Transformers Machine Learning are also promising.
Razengan•1h ago
Please fund my Extensible eXpertise Enhancements
IanCal•1h ago
I disagree. I think it’s worthwhile trying these things out to see what’s working and what isn’t. We can sit and think and discuss all we want but sometimes you need to build something and try.
thrown-0825•1h ago
none of it is working, MIT just released a paper showing that the overwhelming majority of orgs adopting llm workflows have seen no benefit
__MatrixMan__•18m ago
I think that the overwhelming majority of orgs are too inflexible to just insert LLM access, step back, and ask of it was an improvement.

I think you're more likely to see an effect if you can somehow capture how far a solo founder gets before they need to bring on the second employee. Because LLMs aren't better than me at my job, but they are better than me at many jobs which I can tolerate being done poorly.

If there is a significant technological shift, it'll be when those startups start outperforming the ones for which LLMs weren't available at the start.

donperignon•39m ago
nah, i am too old, i already know that this is not useful and it will generate security issues in the short term.
TickleSteve•2h ago
maybe we could implement a UTCP->REST bridge for another unnecessary abstraction layer..

/s

fzeindl•2h ago
Some developers love to implement Rube-Goldberg-machines as tooling.

Whenever they need to make two or three manual steps or configurations, they rather develop an abstraction layer where you just have to press one button to perform them.

Until that button needs to be accompanied by another manual action. Then they will again develop an abstraction which encapsulates the press of the button along with the augmenting action and is triggered by the pressing of a superior button.

Example: Docker->Kubernetes->Helm or any other tooling that uses YAML to write YAML.

ckbkr10•2h ago
The assumption that many decade old tools might adopt a year old protocol just to improve handling with agents.

That's optimism

DataDaemon•2h ago
I'm tired boss [meme]
iamsaitam•2h ago
It has "universal" in the name so this must be it, right?
microsoftedging•2h ago
Obligatory XKCD: https://xkcd.com/927/
vasachi•2h ago
Initial commit: Jun 24, 2025. Already has a migration path from 0.x to 1.x.

Why am I feeling so old now?

On a more serious note, do any models support this?

evertedsphere•1h ago
> Initial commit: Jun 24, 2025. Already has a migration path from 0.x to 1.x.

because that is perfectly reasonable to the llm that wrote that readme

thrown-0825•1h ago
we should have age verification to post on HN
brabel•2h ago
Why is everyone complaining, this is great and a much needed improvement over MCP. MCP is not yet the "definitive answer", perhaps there's time to replace it with something better.
gldnspud•1h ago
We probably don’t need another tool calling protocol unless it is also a tool composition protocol.

Armin Ronacher has recently been making some good points about tool composition: https://lucumr.pocoo.org/2025/8/18/code-mcps/

thecupisblue•1h ago
Always the same with every tech hype-train.

People start developing protocol, standards and overengineering abstractions to get free PR and status. Since AI hype started we have seen so many concepts built upon the basic LLM, from Langchain to CoT chains to MCP to UTCP.

I even attended a conference where one of the speakers was adamant that you couldn't "chain model responses" until Langchain came out. Over and over again, we build these abstractions that distance us from the lower layers and the core technology, leaving people with huge knowledge gaps and misunderstanding of it.

And with LLM's, this cycle got quite fast and it's impact in the end is highly visible - these tools do nothing but poison your context, offering you less control over the response and tie you into their ecosystem.

Every time I tried just listing a list of available functions with a basic signature like:

fn run_search(query: String, engine: String oneOf Bing, Google, Yahoo)

it provided better and more efficient results than poisoning the context with a bunch of tool definitions because "oooh tool calling works that way".

Making a simple monad interface beats using langchain by a margin, and you get to keep control over its implementation and design rather than having to use a design made by someone who doesn't see the pattern.

Keeping control over what goes into the prompt gives you way better control over the output. Keeping things simple gives you a way better control over the flow and architecture.

I don't care that your favorite influencer says differently. If you go and build, you'll experience it directly.

smokel•56m ago
While I might agree with your standpoint, how is this different from also influencing?

I've seen a lot of influencers suggest "100% assembly", "JavaScript only", "no SQL", which seem quite similar.

thecupisblue•41m ago
Technically yes, and I've caught myself in a bit of a paradoxal conundrum :)

Think there is a curve of "reason" to apply when someone is advocating something like this, especially about technology and abstractions.

While in most places adding abstractions to core technology makes sense since "it makes it easier to use/manage/deploy" and it is reasonable to use it, LLM's are a quite different case than usual.

Because usually going downstream makes it harder (i.e. going 100% assembly or 100% JS is a harder thing), but going 100% pure LLM is an easier thing - you don't have to learn new frameworks, no need to learn new abstractions, it is shareable, easy to manage and readable by everyone.

In this case, going upstream is what makes it harder, turns it into code management, makes it harder to reason about and adds inevitable complexity.

If you add a new person on your team and they see that you are using 100% assembly, they have to onboard to it, learn how it works, learn why this was done this way etc etc.

If you add a new person to your team and you see that they are using all these tools and abstractions on top of LLMs its the same.

But if you are just using the core tech, they can immediately understand what is going on. No wrapped prompts, magic symbols, weird abstractions - "oh this is an agent but this is a chain while this is a retriever which is also an agent but it can only be chained to a non-retriever that uses UTCP to call it".

So as always, it is subjective and any advocacy needs to be applied to a curve of reason - in the end, does it make sense?

OutOfHere•50m ago
That's all fine, but it should be noted that proper tool-calling using the LLM's structured response functionality guarantees a compliant response because invalid responses are culled as they're generated.
thecupisblue•26m ago
But now you're limited by the model, provider and the model's adherence to the output.

While using structured outputs is great, it can cause large performance impacts and you lose control over it - i.e. using a smaller model via groq fix the invalid response often times works faster than having a large model generate a structured response.

Have 50 tools? It's faster and more precise to just stack 2 small models or do a search and just pass in basic definitions for each and have it output a function call than to feed it all 50 tools defined as JSON.

While structured response itself is fine, it really depends on the usecase and on the provider. If you can handle the loss of compute seconds, yeah it's great. If you can't, then nothing beats having absolute control over your provider, model and output choice.

IanCal•36m ago
How do you pull out the call? Parse the response? Deal with invalid calls? Encode and tie results to the original call? Deal with error states? Is it custom work to bring in each new api or do you have common pieces dealing with, say, rest APIs or shelling out, etc?

Lots of this isn’t project specific in what you suggest as a better approach.

If your setup keeps working better then it’s probably got a lot of common pieces that could be reused, right? Or do you write the parsing from scratch each time?

If it’s reused, then is it that different from creating abstractions?

As an aside - models are getting explicitly trained to use tool calls rather than custom things.

thecupisblue•19m ago
You parse it. Invalid calls you revalidate with a model of your choice. Parsing isn't a hard to solve thing, it's easy and you can parse whatever you want. I've been parsing responses from LLM's since days of Ada and DaVinci where they would just complete the text and it really isn't that hard.

>If it’s reused, then is it that different from creating abstractions?

Because you have control over the abstractions. You have control over what goes into the context. You have control over updating those abstractions and prompts based on your context. You have control over choosing your models instead of depending on models supported by the library or the tool you're using.

>As an aside - models are getting explicitly trained to use tool calls rather than custom things.

That's great,but also they are great at generating code and guess what the code does? Calls functions.

thrown-0825•1h ago
as is tradition the younger generation of devs are going to get burned by hype vaporware and create a whole ecosystem of orphaned protocols and tools

reminds me of the early 2000’s and all the nosql trash

zorobo•51m ago
I promise, it's the last one we'll ever need https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_One_%28software%29
sethaurus•50m ago
One really nice thing about using LLMs as components is that they just generate text. We've taught them to sometimes issue JSON messages representing a structured query or command, but it still comes out of the thing as text; the model doesn't have any IO or state of its own. Then the actual program can then decide what, if anything, to do with that structured request.

I don't like the gradual reframing of the model itself as being in charge of the tools, aided by a framework that executes whatever the model pumps out. It's not good to abstract away the connection between the text-generator and the actual volatile IO of your program.

dmos62•33m ago
What kind of abstractions around llm-io would you prefer?
dmos62•48m ago
So this basically says either have the tool implement this inteface or write a wrapper (which would be the equivalent of writing an MCP server), right? So this is slightly more general than MCP, or am I missing something?
OutOfHere•46m ago
Will UTCP work with OpenAI models despite their absence of general support for MCP?
koakuma-chan•31m ago
In general models themselves don't support MCP, it's wrappers around models that do.
brap•36m ago
You know I really don’t get it. I must be missing something obvious.

Any “tool protocol” is really just a typed function interface.

For decades, we’ve had dozens (hundreds? thousands?) of different formats/languages to describe those.

Why do we keep making more?

Does it really matter who is calling the function and for which purpose? Does it matter if it’s implemented by a server or a command line executable? Does the data transport protocol matter? Does “model” matter?

  interface HelloSayer {
    /** Says hello **/
    String sayHello();
  }
Here’s your tool protocol bro
donperignon•13m ago
good job! 3k github stars for you sir!!!
tucnak•29m ago
This is insane! We've been training models to write and edit code, and now this? These guys should read this (CodeAct) paper https://arxiv.org/abs/2402.01030

> LLM agents are typically prompted to produce actions by generating JSON or text in a pre-defined format, which is usually limited by constrained action space (e.g., the scope of pre-defined tools) and restricted flexibility (e.g., inability to compose multiple tools). This work proposes to use executable Python code to consolidate LLM agents' actions into a unified action space (CodeAct). Integrated with a Python interpreter, CodeAct can execute code actions and dynamically revise prior actions or emit new actions upon new observations through multi-turn interactions. Our extensive analysis of 17 LLMs on API-Bank and a newly curated benchmark shows that CodeAct outperforms widely used alternatives (up to 20% higher success rate). The encouraging performance of CodeAct motivates us to build an open-source LLM agent that interacts with environments by executing interpretable code and collaborates with users using natural language. To this end, we collect an instruction-tuning dataset CodeActInstruct that consists of 7k multi-turn interactions using CodeAct. We show that it can be used with existing data to improve models in agent-oriented tasks without compromising their general capability. CodeActAgent, finetuned from Llama2 and Mistral, is integrated with Python interpreter and uniquely tailored to perform sophisticated tasks (e.g., model training) using existing libraries and autonomously self-debug.

meindnoch•24m ago
Cmd+F "modern"

"The Universal Tool Calling Protocol (UTCP) is a modern, flexible, and scalable standard for defining and interacting with tools across a wide variety of communication protocols."

Into the trash it goes.

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