> The researchers were on site to test how well alcohol can numb pain.
> “Ethically, we can’t ask people to drink alcohol to levels they do in their day-to-day lives,”
> the point beyond which they felt proper consent was hard to establish.
How is this study ethical? Researchers declared they do not need formal consent, because that would be too hard, and just went on, to torture impaired people!
Universities were going on and on, how drunk people can not consent, and even saying hi to someone in a bar is unethical! And now serious research institute pulls this stunt with torturing people without their consent!
How this intoxication level was measured? I seriously doubt they carried scales and analyzed blood samples, before asking for consent!
https://www.startribune.com/does-booze-relieve-pain-u-resear...
Actually they've been saying that drunk people can't consent to sex, not to saying "hi." Bit of a difference, that.
Just saying there's a ton of grey area. I've never taken sex too seriously, meaning if I did something I regretted while impaired, I just shrugged it off. Other people obviously feel sex is a much bigger issue and regrettable situations are absolutely unacceptable to the point where it's their partners fault for somehow knowing how impaired you are, determining whether your consent is valid, etc. I personally don't get it, how it's become victim shaming to expect people to control their own selves. I get that date rape type stuff is very real and tragic but again, lots of grey area between that and regrettable drunk night out type stuff that's way more common. All to say, there exists a wide spectrum of what any given person may feel about this exact subject.
I think it isn't black and white. There are acts which carry a greater responsibility than others, and there are levels of inebriation (the word itself already implying different levels of soundness of mind). Driving a car can be dangerous to self and others, hence is forbidden from a certain level of intoxication; sex is complicated, and is generally, widely accepted to require some form of consent in many countries, hence it becomes more problematic as the alcohol level rises.
You can agree to things when you're drunk, obviously. But are you of sound mind and body to not regret that agreement later? That's a specific kind or quality of consent which actually has no official definition or modifier-word (even though it's what a lot of people mean). Examples of what I mean: Do you have enough information to consent without regretting it later? That's informed consent. Have you stated with words or documents that you consent? That's explicit consent. Have you already agreed to certain things when entering the bar (like the rules of the bar, and law in general)? That's implied consent. Are there some things you agree to and others you don't? That's granular consent. Do you agree to be part of my mailing list, or will you click this button if you don't want to be part of my mailing list? That's opt-in and opt-out consent (and passive consent).
But there is no modifier word for "I both have all available information and am of enough sound mind and body to not regret this decision later". Use of this meaning in the wrong context doesn't make sense. You don't need information or sound mind and body to agree to basic social conventions, like a greeting, or holding open a door. And you implicitly consent to things like the Law as an adult member of a country.
Because of the lack of nuance when talking about the concept of consent, it has created a lot of confusion and backlash. It would be less controversial if we had more specific terms of art, to accurately communicate ideas and come to more logical conclusions. I think most of us all agree on acceptable forms of conduct, but we talk past each other when words don't carry enough information.
People of "sound mind and body" sometimes later regret their choices. That sounds like an impossibly high expectation.
Well, public intoxication is illegal where I live, so presumably no.
Tongs do not sound gentle!
It's mostly people studying BS humanities topics like "women's studies" and crap like that. They don't represent everyone.
marojejian•3d ago
Though in general i think science needs more rigor, this a was a fund article with a legit point. And the findings listed on drinking were interesting. (does reduce pain, and some people don't get hung over)
southernplaces7•5h ago
Also, i'm one of those people who rarely suffers anything resembling a hangover, even after those rare nights of heavier drinking, but then maybe drinking only hard spirits helps, because sugar-loaded alcoholic drinks like wine, beer and cocktails are famous for creating some of the most monstrous hangovers among those who get hangovers in general.
iamflimflam1•4h ago
adrian_b•3h ago
Because of this, when older, one should pay more attention to observing a healthy diet, which contains smaller amounts of harmful substances (e.g. alcohol) and enough quantities of all nutrients, including those that can be produced by a human body, but in insufficient quantities in older people (e.g. long-chain omega-3 fatty acids).
jajko•2h ago
Btw hard liquors contain tons of sugars by principle, and ie good dry red wine comparatively little, in reasonable amounts of course.
TimByte•2h ago