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iPhone Air

https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2025/09/introducing-iphone-air-a-powerful-new-iphone-with-a-breakt...
552•excerionsforte•9h ago•1195 comments

Things you can do with a debugger but not with print debugging

https://mahesh-hegde.github.io/posts/what_debugger_can/
46•never_inline•2d ago•22 comments

E-paper display reaches the realm of LCD screens

https://spectrum.ieee.org/e-paper-display-modos
275•rbanffy•9h ago•90 comments

Outraged Farmers Blame Ag Monopolies as Catastrophic Collapse Looms

https://www.agweb.com/markets/outraged-farmers-blame-ag-monopolies-catastrophic-collapse-looms
120•strict9•2h ago•118 comments

Claude now has access to a server-side container environment

https://www.anthropic.com/news/create-files
455•meetpateltech•12h ago•258 comments

Axial twist theory

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_twist_theory
81•lordnacho•3d ago•14 comments

We all dodged a bullet

https://xeiaso.net/notes/2025/we-dodged-a-bullet/
584•WhyNotHugo•12h ago•336 comments

US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

https://apnews.com/article/naep-reading-math-scores-12th-grade-c18d6e3fbc125f12948cc70cb85a520a
261•bikenaga•12h ago•375 comments

Memory Integrity Enforcement

https://security.apple.com/blog/memory-integrity-enforcement/
331•circuit•8h ago•153 comments

Immunotherapy drug clinical trial results: half of tumors shrink or disappear

https://www.rockefeller.edu/news/38120-immunotherapy-drug-eliminates-aggressive-cancers-in-clinic...
290•marc__1•6h ago•60 comments

Tomorrow's emoji today: Unicode 17.0

https://jenniferdaniel.substack.com/p/tomorrows-emoji-today-unicode-170
113•ChrisArchitect•9h ago•159 comments

DuckDB NPM packages 1.3.3 and 1.29.2 compromised with malware

https://github.com/duckdb/duckdb-node/security/advisories/GHSA-w62p-hx95-gf2c
323•tosh•17h ago•242 comments

YouTube is a mysterious monopoly

https://anderegg.ca/2025/09/08/youtube-is-a-mysterious-monopoly
145•geerlingguy•22h ago•203 comments

A new experimental Go API for JSON

https://go.dev/blog/jsonv2-exp
181•darccio•12h ago•61 comments

Hypervisor in 1k Lines

https://1000hv.seiya.me/en
24•lioeters•4h ago•2 comments

Show HN: Bottlefire – Build single-executable microVMs from Docker images

https://bottlefire.dev/
56•losfair•2d ago•8 comments

Building a DOOM-like multiplayer shooter in pure SQL

https://cedardb.com/blog/doomql/
151•lvogel•12h ago•31 comments

Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

https://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-send-employees-back-to-office-rto-remote-work-2025-9
250•alloyed•10h ago•452 comments

She puts the Lord in 'vanlord.' Palo Alto wants to ban her business

https://sanjosespotlight.com/she-puts-the-lord-in-vanlord-palo-alto-wants-to-ban-her-business/
6•harambae•2d ago•2 comments

An attacker’s blunder gave us a look into their operations

https://www.huntress.com/blog/rare-look-inside-attacker-operation
130•mellosouls•11h ago•82 comments

Anthropic judge rejects $1.5B AI copyright settlement

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/ip-law/anthropic-judge-blasts-copyright-pact-as-nowhere-close-to-done
193•nobody9999•18h ago•208 comments

ICE is using fake cell towers to spy on people's phones

https://www.forbes.com/sites/the-wiretap/2025/09/09/how-ice-is-using-fake-cell-towers-to-spy-on-p...
497•coloneltcb•10h ago•204 comments

Go for Bash Programmers – Part II: CLI Tools

https://github.com/go-monk/from-bash-to-go-part-ii
91•reisinge•1d ago•3 comments

Dropbox Paper mobile App Discontinuation

https://help.dropbox.com/installs/paper-mobile-discontinuation
124•mercenario•9h ago•105 comments

A cryptography expert on how Web3 started, and how it’s going

https://spectrum.ieee.org/web3-hardware-security
144•warrenm•8h ago•161 comments

NASA finds Titan's alien lakes may be creating primitive cells

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2025/08/250831112449.htm
44•Gaishan•3h ago•2 comments

Weave (YC W25) is hiring a founding AI engineer

https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/weave-3/jobs/SqFnIFE-founding-ai-engineer
1•adchurch•10h ago

Cassette Logic: technology that never dies but is already dead

https://www.differentshelf.com/cassette-logic/
9•seductivebarry•2d ago•8 comments

Mistral raises 1.7B€, partners with ASML

https://mistral.ai/news/mistral-ai-raises-1-7-b-to-accelerate-technological-progress-with-ai
726•TechTechTech•21h ago•385 comments

Anscombe's Quartet

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anscombe%27s_quartet
111•gidellav•1d ago•25 comments
Open in hackernews

YouTube is a mysterious monopoly

https://anderegg.ca/2025/09/08/youtube-is-a-mysterious-monopoly
145•geerlingguy•22h ago

Comments

troupo•21h ago
I keep seeing people say this: "I pay for YouTube Premium. For my money, it’s the best bang-for-the-buck subscription service on the market" and I don't understand.

For me, Premium's only value proposition is removing ads. Recommendations are still the same (quite shitty). Search is unusable (4 relevant results then unrelated recommendations). Shorts are pushed aggressively no matter how many times you hide them. Search in history will often not find even something you just watched a few days ago.

It's the same Youtube.

SchemaLoad•21h ago
You also get youtube music, instant skipping over sponsor sections, and the ability to play videos in the background
SanjayMehta•21h ago
There’s an excellent free ios app called “Unwatched” which lets you make playlists, set defaults per channel such playback speed, and lets you play videos in the background. I use it for “podcasts” which are video only.

And you don’t have to log in.

makeitdouble•20h ago
Aside from Music, these are all negative features that are valuable only because YouTube is so obnoxious.

I'm in vehement agreement with parent to be honest. "We'll stop spitting in your soup if you pay us extra" isn't a nice value proposition.

SchemaLoad•20h ago
It's not a particularly crazy idea that free users get a lesser experience. I'm perfectly happy to pay for youtube since it provides by far the best content and the price is reasonable.

The fact that people can get all of that for free with some minor limitations is fairly generous.

makeitdouble•17h ago
> fairly generous.

Is Google "generous" ?

Magmalgebra•20h ago
It feels bad as a consumer, but the alternative is usually worse.

The "stop spitting in your soup if you pay us extra" is really efficient market segmentation. If you don't do that you need to find actual value props that separate the market in just the right way to generate the financials that allow the product to keep going as is. 9 times out of 10 the result is that failing PMs totally fuck up the product and everyone loses.

It's the SSO kerfuffle in a different package - terrible, but the right choice surprisingly often.

tonyhart7•20h ago
"We'll stop spitting in your soup if you pay us extra" isn't a nice value proposition

so you want people to freely watch videos without paying anything or watching ads ???

how this works then, creator need to be paid, bandwidth need to be paid, infrastructure is not cheap

it is a nice value proposition, if its not somebody would already make a better alternative that not require those 2 (without paying and without ads)

the fact there is not then its not possible

makeitdouble•17h ago
To stay in the metaphor, wouldn't see some other business model that would allow them to provide the soup to people who order without having to threaten to spit into it ?
tonyhart7•15h ago
lol, there is no spit on it

it is the soup, people free to eat the soup or not

the fact that people always focusing on youtube flaw but never recommend alternative is simply saying that they are the best

makeitdouble•11h ago
That's the hallmark of a monopoly: people can complain about it as much as they want, it won't have any material difference.
hdjrudni•20h ago
You also get >2x playback speed and higher bitrates on some videos.
55555•21h ago
Yes basically all it does is remove ads. Those of us who are happy with it are those of us who don’t feel entitled to unlimited video streaming for free. Most people think YouTube should just be free and have no ads for some reason, and they probably wouldn’t say Premium is such a great deal.
makeitdouble•20h ago
The issue is you're still not paying for the content nor paying the creators.

You're paying YouTube to stop annoying you, and they then decide what to do with that money, incidentally paying some creators.

TheAceOfHearts•20h ago
YouTube pays creators more for each Premium view.
frankchn•20h ago
YouTube seems to be pretty explicit that it is paying 55% of revenue from watching videos to creators:

> If a partner turns on Watch Page Ads by reviewing and accepting the Watch Page Monetization Module, YouTube will pay them 55% of net revenues from ads displayed or streamed on their public videos on their content Watch Page. This revenue share rate also applies when their public videos are streamed within the YouTube Video Player on other websites or applications.

https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/72902?hl=en#zippy=...

makeitdouble•19h ago
As you point out, that revenue split has a set of conditions, which also require a level of contract on Youtube and other requirements (not being DMCA stroke for instance)

So where does your Premium money go when you watch a very small creator ? where does it go for a demonetized video ? etc.

That might sounds like a subtle difference, but consider the gap with channel membership, super chats (which are also roughly 50% split I think?) or patreon for instance.

kalleboo•11h ago
> where does it go for a demonetized video

A "demonetized" video is technically called a "limited or no ads" video in YouTube Studio - it means YouTube has determined that advertisers do not want their ads seen on the video for reputational reasons. Premium views still pay out for them since they are not paid through showing ads.

A DMCA strike is something else.

makeitdouble•4h ago
Sorry I wasn't referring to videos the creator decides to forgo revenue, as you point there's a better term for that.

I was thinking about the videos that were supposed to make money but got shut off monetization for whatever reason. DMCA strike is one, YouTube flagging it as risque is another common one.

msrp•20h ago
Youtube premium users on average give creators more revenue per view than non-premium users. 55% of the premium revenue is split between the creators you watch.
pembrook•20h ago
Monetizing your marketplace monopoly with 45% rents is even more egregious than the App Store which people complain about at 30%.

In fact, it might be the highest monopoly tax in all of tech. Even Spotify only takes 30% from the same musicians who post the same music videos on each platform.

SXX•19h ago
Streaming video requires excruciatingly expensive infrastructure. It's one of reasons why there are no competitors to be seen.
pembrook•19h ago
It requires less expensive infrastructure than AI, and AI has tons of competitors.

YouTube simply enjoys a classic network effects monopoly, and that’s why their margins are high compared to any other business in the S&P500.

makeitdouble•19h ago
There will be no competitors if one of the player in the field does it for free for enough time. We'd call that "dumping" if it was a manufacturer.
Jensson•17h ago
It would be dumping if they took much less than 55%, but they actually do make profits so its not dumping.
makeitdouble•13h ago
YouTube has been in the red at least until 2010 under most estimations.

For reference that's around the point Vimeo started pivoting to different strategies and blocking long content as they couldn't pay for the infra.

That's also around that time that Dailymotion went down the pipes with the French gov stepping in to save the remains.

YouTube thrived from there as creators and advertisers had nowhere else to go at that point. That's the dumping part.

Ekaros•19h ago
Video especially with high-bit rates is most expensive medium to deliver and store. Well, I suppose Youtube could move to model where they charge for creators for both of those and drop their cut to 30%...
kalleboo•20h ago
Premium pays out to creators by minutes viewed (vs AdSense which pays out by ads viewed)

I've heard some creators say that in total, they make more money from all their Premium viewers than they make from all their AdSense viewers, even though the former are a small fraction of the latter.

makeitdouble•13h ago
This argument is repeated on other comments as well, but I think it's fundamentally a parralel fact.

YouTube giving some of the Premium money to creators doesn't make Premium a good product. If'm not that utilitarian to think any single additional penny going to some creators is good whatever YouTube takes in the process and the general impact on the the whole field.

mrheosuper•20h ago
I don't see why it's the issue. Youtube infrastructure is not cheap.
mystifyingpoi•20h ago
Well, it is not cheap if we look at the massive server racks they have, but in the scale of the world? Watching 1h of a video probably costs them like $0.00001 or something equally minuscule.
makeitdouble•18h ago
How would you see it if your phone company spammed your calls and SMS and offered to remove the annoyances for some random fixed fee that is not tied to your usage of the service ?

If we care about Youtube's infra, the expected business structure should follow that assumption.

mrheosuper•17h ago
> that is not tied to your usage of the service

Could you explain this more ?, i'm sure i only get Youtube Ads when watching videos, which is "usage of the service".

makeitdouble•11h ago
You pay the same fixed Premium fee per month whatever you do with YouTube.

You can quit YouTube for weeks or watch it 22h every day, you still pay the same. Same way you can exclusively watch non monetized streams or only watch top monetized creators, you'll be paying exactly the same.

The only difference will be how much YouTube gets to keep.

mrheosuper•1h ago
> You can quit YouTube for weeks or watch it 22h every day, you still pay the same

This has always been in subscription model, like mobile data plan, or exclusive club membership. I won't argue if it's good or not, just saying it has been a thing for a long time.

> you can exclusively watch non monetized streams or only watch top monetized creators, you'll be paying exactly the same.

Well, the server do not care if the video's creator is paid or not, it still has to store the same data, and you have to pay for it.

testaccount28•20h ago
Why don't you use ad blockers?
e40•20h ago
Don’t exist on Apple TV box.
55555•18h ago
I likewise don't use one on my apple TV, but my friend recently told me there are proxy apps for Apple TV which use DNS-based ad blocking and which can get you the US Netflix library while abroad.
e40•13h ago
Absolutely. I've been too lazy to do anything like this.
GLdRH•20h ago
Well, we grew up in the Great Pirate Era
beeflet•20h ago
I do feel entitled to unlimited video streaming for free. Since the invention of bittorrent there is no need to have a client-server middleman for distributing large files like videos.

If the bandwidth bankrupts them, then boo hoo. They take advantage of network effects so no one can go anywhere else.

Don't feed the bears. That's what I say

jwrallie•20h ago
Maybe some never experienced an ad because they have been using an ad blocker since before ads on Youtube became a thing?
notmyjob•13h ago
Or used YouTube a lot in the years before it all went downhill.
troupo•20h ago
Oh, I'm not against paying for a service. I'm willing to pay more, but that's the issue: companies will happily sell you their basic enshittified product and never provide you with an option of actual good usable one.
magospietato•20h ago
YouTube music being included effectively replaces an additional music streaming service. From that perspective the family oriented plans in particular carry a lot of value.
kelseydh•20h ago
My gripe with Youtube Music is that the bitrate quality of their music is lower than Tidal or even Spotify. YTM audio files that are actually on Youtube will only stream in 128kbps.
cung•18h ago
I’m surprised to hear that. I just switched from Spotify to Youtube Music and found the audio quality to be way better, even though I had Spotify set to high.
carabiner•20h ago
You should be paying (or taking some other action) to extricate ads from your life as much as possible.
makeitdouble•20h ago
Paying to remove ads is negotiating with terrorists.

YouTube stays in the dominant position either way, it's not like tomorrow you'll go watch Nebula exclusively (you'd already have done it at this point). They're not providing anything materially, so the amount you pay is bound to nothing except how much you're willing to pay. And how much you're willing to pay depends on how much you're annoyed.

So YouTube's main incentive for this program is to annoy you as much as you can tolerate to optimize the most money you get extracted.

smt88•20h ago
It sounds like you're arguing that YouTube should be free and also ad-free, which makes no sense.

YouTube is expensive to operate. They give me an option of paying by watching ads or paying money. That's much better than my options most other places, which is just to be forced to see ads.

makeitdouble•19h ago
I'm arguing that youtube should be paid for actual features. For instance membership and super chats are clearly labeled as extra content. Member only content is the same.

You pay for a specific thing that is produced by a creator and provided by Youtube. "Pay to remove the ads we're pushing" is none of that.

On Youtube being free, this is their business choice, and also the way they crush the competition and cement a near monopoly on the market. If it was a public service NGO I'd see it from a different angle, but it's not.

cung•18h ago
Would you then argue for Youtube to take the Netflix path and not provide non-paying users anything?
makeitdouble•17h ago
I'd argue that regulators should have a serious look at the effect of Youtube on that specific market, and if the only solution is the Youtube free tier disappearing I'll be fine with it.

We're in a skewed situation with a near monopoly that only companies at the size of Bytedance can challenge, and I'm not sure why we should see the status quo as something to be protected or encouraged.

Magmalgebra•20h ago
I imagine most people have the same value prop I do

1) I watch youtube more than any streaming service

2) I really really value not having ads in my life

So the price for ad-free youtube really seems phenomenal. None of the other features really matter to me - ad free dominates all value discussions.

syncsynchalt•2h ago
> 1) I watch youtube more than any streaming service

I would amend that to say "any *other streaming service". To me Youtube provides more and better content than the other streaming services, and I don't think people should balk at $14 for youtube when they happily pay that for netflix, disney+, hulu, or spotify.

PrivateButts•20h ago
On top of removing ads and giving you a couple extra minor features, it also has a way better rev split with creators (last I heard). Half of the sub gets divvied up to the people you watched that month, portioned out via watch time.
DimmieMan•20h ago
Absolutely, If premium sorted out all those problems and generally treated creators better i'd have a subscription.

I come to youtube for the *creators*, the actual platform where I have watch history off and use extensions to block the aggressively pushed slop as it currently stands is not something I want to put money towards.

I'm already a patreon to a few creators and have a Nebula subscription; adding it up it's probably slightly more than a premium subscription.

jojobas•20h ago
Yeah it's hard to compete with Ublock Origin and youtube-shorts-block.
marcyb5st•20h ago
Full disclousure: I work for Google, but nowhere near YT/YT music. Opinions are my own and I am actually a customer as I pay for YT premium with a family plan for me, my wife, and our son.

While I agree YT without Ads is great, you also get YT music which is really good and for us it replaced Spotify completely.

Personally, though, I don't have a problem with search (maybe because I set a lot of channels as "do not recommend/show"). Shorts, however, they are really annoying.

troupo•18h ago
> Personally, though, I don't have a problem with search (maybe because I set a lot of channels as "do not recommend/show").

Previously search was just search. It wasn't great, but it wasn't too bad.

Now it shows 5-7 results from actual search (often really bad results).

The next section is "People also watch" which quite often has very passing relevance to what you look for.

Then there are shorts.

Then there's "explore more" which may or may not be relevant to your search, and it has "+N more" underneath.

And then there's the rest of the search which, again, may or may not be relevant to your search at all.

---

I think it was slightly fixed recently, so the results are a bit more relevant, but it still is just ... weird

MinimalAction•20h ago
I use Brave and it's the premium experience already.
kelseydh•20h ago
The other useful Youtube Premium feature is the ability to offline download videos to your device. Useful for long plane rides and elsewhere where internet is limited or nonexistent.
jhallenworld•5h ago
The new thing that YouTube Premium includes is the one button press to skip over "commonly skipped parts of the video"- typically the in-video promotions. This just showed up last week on my nVidia shield connected to my TV. So finally there is a way to remove ads for real. It would be nice if it did it automatically.

The creator is getting paid more from my Premium subscription, so I definitely do not want to see their own ads.

simianwords•21h ago
“This space is ripe for disruption”. On the contrary I feel like YouTube is extremely well managed. For an application that is this ubiquitous and this well known, it seems to work pretty well. I can’t remember the last time it was in news for something bad.

Sometimes the answer really is: it is well managed product.

qweiopqweiop•21h ago
For some definition of well, that includes forcing shorts on everyone and getting most of the youth addicted to your product.
guardian5x•20h ago
I agree that it is a mostly well managed product, but I can think of a lot of things when it was in the news for something bad. Most controversial is probably the increase in the amount of Ads, unskippable ads, then there was multiple problems with Youtube kids, e.g. how bad people get really bad videos there. There was an outcry when the dislike button was removed, and so on..
beeflet•20h ago
I don't know it's constantly kicking youtubers I subscribe to off the site, and removing videos. It would be nice if it were more censorship resistant
simianwords•20h ago
It’s an extremely hard problem to solve unfortunately. The political tides keep shifting. One day it’s unthinkable to non censor a gender critical video. Another day it is okay.

The YouTube management has to be adaptive enough to work in the small window that society allows at that time.

infamia•13h ago
It isn't society they're kicking people off of YouTube for, it's whatever their advertisers do or don't want at any given moment. The advertising companies are their customers, and everyone else is just grist for the mill.
pezezin•3h ago
I am subscribed to more than 70 YouTube channels, and I have never seen any of them getting kicked out, and the only videos that get removed are due to some bullshit music copyright claims.

If you see Youtubers getting kicked out constantly you might be subscribing to some weird stuff...

jdprgm•20h ago
Youtube is such a dominant and ubiquitous monopoly that it is almost easy to forget about it as a monopoly because there is so little competition to contrast against and to even remind you that there ought to be. I've wondered for years why it gets so little attention vs so many of the other tech giants that do have more competition.
pembrook•20h ago
YouTube has the highest monopoly tax in all of tech.

They take 45% of YouTube premium subscription revenue. That’s higher than the App Store (30%), Spotify (30%), and any other content marketplace on the internet.

I think they get a free pass for now because they allow creators to monetize with their own native ads within videos. If I had to guess, this may become a point of contention in the future…

bitpush•20h ago
Serving video infinite times is vastily different to serving apps once for installation.
pembrook•19h ago
It’s not 45% of revenue expensive.

The fact that we’ve accepted such ridiculously high profit margins from tech companies is simply due to their network effects monopolies, and the impossibility of competing with them.

Just look at any other marketplace business with more competition, like say a grocery store or any brick and mortar retail. Their net margins are often sub-5%. Physically shipping goods across the world is far more expensive than delivering video.

Only other monopolies, like Governments, can get away with charging 45% taxes. Having known a few Youtube employees and also a few federal government employees, I would say the low stress, low effort, low fear of layoffs, low work output expectations are...ahem...similar.

Jensson•17h ago
> It’s not 45% of revenue expensive.

Youtubes profit margin isn't that high so it is pretty close to that, it took a long time for it to get profitable even with Google ads, unlike the digital stores that serves customers for basically nothing compared to how much revenue they bring in.

Twitch also takes around that much from streamers and they still aren't profitable since it costs more to serve the streams than they make.

dghlsakjg•3h ago
Does Alphabet split out YT revenue numbers in the financial reports? The latest one listed the YT revenues, but I didn't see where the line item for YT costs was.
dzhiurgis•14h ago
> Only other monopolies, like Governments, can get away with charging 45% taxes.

And then charge even higher rate if you give them more money. Ask them how they spend it? Proudly poorly. /rant

bitpush•12h ago
> Physically shipping goods across the world is far more expensive than delivering video.

Are you sure? It is a logistics issue, not a technology issue. Streaming video, near instantly, around the world, without any perceivable user-experience issues, infinite times, for infinite users is a massive-massive technology issue.

Amazon same day deliver was problably the most revolutionary thing that came to the domain, but otherwise shipping 1000 cars across the world, while impressive, is a pretty straight forward task. The technology that you need are ships and trucks. You can use a 1950s era technology to do that.

pegasus•8h ago
It's not shipping infinite times, the number of views (and hence, cost to stream) are proportional to the fees withheld. Whether 45% is too much, I can't say, don't think it can be determined apriori. It kinda does make sense to me that it would be more than the app store fees, but I also feel those app store fees are too high as well.
scarface_74•1h ago
If you think you can do better, you are welcome to set up your own server and stream your own video.

Do you think bandwidth and storage are free?

devmor•20h ago
I don't think "the news" matters here as much as how it works, and it really doesn't work that well if you compare it to how it used to work.

If I open the Youtube app on my phone, I have to click through 3 menus before I can even see the newest video from the users I'm subscribed to, and then I have to watch 2 ads that change the entire layout of the app to present me more information about those ads - or I can pay $30 a month to skip those ads.

If I have spotty connectivity, I also can't buffer a video to watch anymore. I have to wait for some minimal percent to load, watch that part, then wait again. If I skip ahead, the earlier part is lost and has to be re-buffered.

Furthermore, not of immediate consequence to me, but still insufferably annoying is that creators I follow are regularly suspended from earning income on YouTube due to false copyright strikes, or saying a "bad word" that has no clear enforcement guidelines and seems to be different from person to person or day to day, and thus have begun to produce less content or found other platforms to move their videos to first.

It's pretty terrible, from my point of view. It's a bad service where a good service used to be, surviving on the dregs of goodwill and familiarity from its heyday.

SapporoChris•20h ago
I do not have a youtube account. I never sign in. If I go to watch a video and I get confronted with a puzzle to solve then I immediately close my browser and go do something else. This has led to a personal trend of using youtube less frequently.
simianwords•20h ago
Fair price to pay for hosted content no? Either watch ads or pay for the subscription.
mc3301•20h ago
Would this model work?

Creators themselves PAY to upload/host something. Their in-video ads are what allows monetization.

No adds at all from youtube. Uploading COSTS money, maybe a few dollars.

Creators make their money solely from sponsors or selling/advertising something themselves.

simianwords•20h ago
serving video costs money not just uploading. so there has to be fixed and variable costs - but if that is accounted for then it could work but we are putting all the risk on the creator.
Jensson•17h ago
That model already exists, it is called the internet. There you pay for hosting and advertisements and everything, and you also get all the revenue.

It isn't very popular since the internet doesn't advertise your content for you, youtube do that so its much easier for content creators to get big on youtube. Also it is free to upload on youtube, so small creators start there, small creators later grow to big creators and stay on youtube.

mrtksn•20h ago
I agree, it's one of the few last places on the Internet where the content is not just rage bait or AI slop. These things are trying to creep in but so far they failed to dominate unlike other places.

My issues with YouTube are usually limited to some UI problems. I think I can even list them all:

1) Thumbnails autoplay but the disclaimer about paid content is so large that often I click to watch the video and get the paid content info page.

2) Translates stuff depending on my browser language and IP. Very annoying

3) The add to queue button sometimes doesn't work and just plays the video right away. Very annoying

4) When I'm listening to songs, sometimes I just let it auto play the next song it picks and often it picks 2 hours long video of songs sticked one after another. Very annoying

5) The share button adds som ID that I have to remove every time, it's probably to track my sharing behavior. Annoying

6) When chromecasting, tapping on a video or receiving it through airdrop used to give me an option to add it to the queue or play it right away. Now just plays right away. Annoying

7) If I navigate from a page and go back I'm presented with a different page and often the video I noticed previously isn't there.

Besides that, I think I don't have much issues with YT. Best money spent on a premium subscription ever.

1oooqooq•3h ago
so much this

you tube is close to perfect using third party clients, like PipePipe.

it automatically skips paid adverts in the video. not even a shadow of actual ads. background music only. etc.

but now they are adding those dumb features, such as translating titles, as if i'm a peasant who don't speak several languages. so lame.

conradfr•20h ago
> I can’t remember the last time it was in news for something bad

It was a few days ago for the AI auto-filter and also Beato copyright claims.

Gigachad•19h ago
That's fairly menial compared to other tech company drama. Facebook livestreaming shootings, ChatGPT telling kids to kill themselves, etc.
vintermann•19h ago
Oh? I remember countless times it's been in the news (well, our news) for copyright abuse, appeals processes that are either an AI pretending to be human or a human pretending to be AI. The de-facto only way to clear up rampant abuse like mass claiming of videos over use of public domain music, is to have clout in social media.

Then there's the issue of AI slop channels, and pre-AI slop directed at children like the infamous Elsa and Spiderman spam.

Every so often they also are in the news for AB testing some anti-adblock measure. And people used to adblock who see it with ads for the first time in a while seem to always be shocked at the level of ads for pure fraud or malware.

YouTube seems to be a terrible place if you put anything up there that you actually care about. But I agree on one thing: it's not "ripe for disruption". Google sank so much losses into it for so many years just to have this monopoly, so it's not going to be easy to replace.

euLh7SM5HDFY•19h ago
Sometimes the answer really is: it is a monopoly and it doesn't matter what they do.

They have all the eyeballs. All creators that got fucked over YT stay on the platform if their accounts are restored. And who can blame them, where are they going to go, Vimeo?

faangguyindia•17h ago
YouTube comment section can offer more like reddit. Where extended multiple level discussions can happen on the video with user profile and karma and all.
SirFatty•14h ago
Well managed? Not so sure about that.. the fact that UMG can harass content creators unchecked is a problem, and it's not just UMG abusing the copyright strike system.

Also, the amount of highjacked accounts and the length of time to regain control is absurdly long.

And Shorts. I wish I could disable Shorts from my feed.

busymom0•2h ago
I only use YouTube via safari browser and have hidden shorts and community posts using Userscripts.
1vuio0pswjnm7•7h ago
What is the "product"?

A website? ("platform" for advertising) A website's users? ("you are the product") Paid subscriptions? (insufficient revenue to sustain operations)

If YouTube is a "product" does that mean US products liability laws apply? (Please support your answer with facts not opinions)

History so far has shown website popularity varies over time

https://hosting.com/blog/the-most-visited-websites-every-yea...

Would anyone today claim that, for example, Yahoo.com was "extremely well managed"? Yahoo was #1 for many years. Change is inevitable

It is hilarious to see people obsessed with targeting virtually anything for "disruption" until their favorite website becomes the target

In any organisation there is always room for improvement. Monopoly power reduces, perhaps even eliminates, incentive to improve

benob•21h ago
> YouTube views seem to have fallen off a cliff recently

So they started discounting AI data collection bots?

SchemaLoad•20h ago
Youtube pretty aggressively blocks automated usage now. If you connect via a VPN it won't show any videos until you log in. Considering that ad income and real engagement seems unchanged, it possibly is just that they started blocking bots better. Something you wouldn't strictly expect a public announcement over.
chii•20h ago
I also find that they block incognito mode a lot too - esp. on android when you use a hacked client like revanced (less so in the browser, but i use firefox and have seen incognito mode causing youtube to block you from viewing without logging in).
manveerc•20h ago
Wonder what’s the cause of decline in views. One plausible reaction I had was that views might be down because of people using AI search (ChatGPT, etc) which unlike Google don’t show videos prominently. But since likes haven’t gone down that doesn’t seem likely.
SchemaLoad•20h ago
I wouldn't think google search is a significant source of views anyway. Last I saw, the top platform for youtube usage is TVs.
Simran-B•20h ago
Did they drop support for the YouTube app on very old TVs or ban a bunch of those cheap Android TV boxes with a lot of spyware on them by any chance?
maltelandwehr•18h ago
In August, Youtube received about 6 billion clicks from organic search. That is 20% of Youtube's total website traffic. I think that is significant.

Source: Similarweb, world-wide

eloisius•20h ago
Anecdotal, but for a while it felt like YouTube had decent content on whatever I was looking for. I trusted product reviews on there ever so slightly more than text content because of the relatively higher cost of producing videos. Nowadays there’s a glut of low quality stuff. Anything from low-effort videos to outright text-to-speech, non-videos that snare you using a promising thumbnail. The search results only surface about 5-10 relevant videos followed by things that have specious relevance. On top of that, they jammed Shorts into prominent screen real estate. It screams “hey while I’ve got you here, about a few of these distractions!”

So, I stopped going there as much. They stopped respecting visitor intentions. Just like every other platform, they just want to keep you on the site for as long as possible sifting through a feed of dopamine slop.

Simran-B•20h ago
My first thought when I read AI search was that people might use it for instructions rather than tutorials and troubleshooting videos.
TiredOfLife•20h ago
Apparently very few people use the subscriptions list and rely on the videos they subscribe and watch to appear on the Youtube homepage. And youtube changed what videos they put there. Instead of new videos by people you watch and related ones they show:

videos you just watched

videos you watched 10 years ago

auto dubbed videos on topics you are not interested

clickbait videos with 10 views

anything, but what you are used to watching

geerlingguy•2h ago
Nicely summarized in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHEXAjdo44A
conradfr•20h ago
As TFA says, you can't even be sure what constitute "a view" and if Youtube keeps that consistent.
spydum•3h ago
My pet theory is the war on ad blocking aka manifestv2 deprecation: https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/develop/migrate...
toast0•20h ago
> I think this space is ripe for disruption, but there are only a handful of companies who could make a go of it… and I think they’d lose a lot of money for a long time while they tried.

If you have to lose a lot of money for a long time to compete, how is it ripe for disruption?

YouTube works because it has eyeballs, content/creators, advertisers, a cdn, and has made enough piece with large copyright license holders that it's allowed to continue.

Competing with YouTube is certainly possible, and there's a lot of fun technical work, but there's also a big challenge to attract the people you need to make the thing work. You probably already need to already have two out of four of users, content, advertisers, cdn. And you need to get licenseholders on board quick. And probably law enforcement as well.

I'm not saying it is or isn't a monopoly, but it would be hard to compete with. I think monopoly would depend on the defined market... a broadly defined market might include netflix and even cable tv. A narrowly defined market would include durably published user uploads, which has a lot fewer entrants.

tonyhart7•20h ago
nah its too late honestly, if big tech didn't want or care to make competing platform

how can you expect company that has less resource make an alternative ???? I still remember when microsoft throwing money to make mixer (twitch alternative) and yet it failed miserably

tiktok is close as we can get honestly, but youtube also expand toward shorts

vitorgrs•20h ago
Pretty sure Microsoft also tried to compete with Youtube once upon a time. Forgot the name...
recursivecaveat•19h ago
Soapbox was their competitor way way back. More recently they had Mixer, though that was more of a Twitch like service. They spent a ton of money paying streamers to use it, but the network effects are just too strong.
Gigachad•19h ago
People have to be sufficiently discontent with the current offering. It's like game publishers throwing money at buying exclusives for their game stores. People have to not like Steam first.
umeshunni•4h ago
Facebook tried "Facebook Watch"
mystifyingpoi•20h ago
> and there's a lot of fun technical work

Maybe it's just me, but I don't find such kind of work "fun". I would have a constant feeling of "well, we are simply trying to mimic what YT did, maybe we should just hire someone that worked there and do the same, instead of going through the same inevitable mistakes".

phantomathkg•1h ago
Some people think dealing with the following are fun.

Handling massive amount of video ingestion from content creator; Transcoding to various format that is optimal for various devices, Live streaming with Live to VOD, Geo restriction, Live Commenting, Ad insertion and penalise adblocker, Recommendation engine.

There are many features and challenges that are unique to OTT streaming applications and running at YouTube scales makes it even more challanging, or fun to some, to handle.

3RTB297•18h ago
>Competing with YouTube is certainly possible,

It is, but it's hard to gain the same audience share for all the reasons you mention.

Just ask Dailymotion, Vimeo, Twitch, Odysee, Peertube, Rumble, Kick, BitChute...

whatevaa•15h ago
Peertube is not comparable. P2P has tradeoffs.
Computer0•5h ago
It looks cool though, I hadn't heard of it. It seems like not many of the example websites had enough video traffic to have any of the upload offloaded from the servers to any peers though.
roenxi•4h ago
It is technically different and there are trade offs, but that isn't much of an argument - at the end of the day we need to send yea many bytes of data from server to client with a known format. I watched a PeerTube video yesterday and it was the same experience as watching a YouTube one. Some company could implement YouTube by running large servers as peers if the unit economics made sense and it'd work.

The problem PeerTube has is that there isn't demand for what it is doing because YouTube is a pretty good video custodian. Although everyone seems to be sensibly alert to the risk that they eventually go bad, right now it works. Obviously don't expect any video currently on YouTube to be available in 20 years though.

Theodores•5h ago
In the UK we have the venerable BBC which is struggling with the revenue model, cost of broadcasting and much else. I am not a fan but I think that under new leadership they could do the disruption.

In what way?

Youtube is not social media. Nobody makes new friends whilst on YT. However, broadcast TV in the olden days before satellite TV and video recorders provided a shared conversation for the whole nation. You could spark up a conversation by asking a friend if they saw something on the TV during the previous evening. Nowadays people say DON'T TELL ME, I HAVEN'T WATCHED IT YET with no further conversation possible without changing topic.

A video platform could build community by letting people know if their friends and family have enjoyed watching the same programmes. Also possible is a mechanism whereby you can have a schedule made just for you. I have two YT faves, one which is fun (parasocial relationship) and another which is intellectual. If it is early in the evening and I am possibly relaxing with food then I will want the former, not the latter. On a daily basis I could have what we had in the olden days, light entertainment in the early evening and stuff that requires some brain cells later.

Revenue is always interesting and the state broadcasters in the English speaking world might as well pool resources and supply content people enjoy as soft propaganda on a free basis with no adverts. If the CDNs are in place with everything cached with a little bit of P2P, the cost model for delivery could be improved on.

dghlsakjg•4h ago
I don't know what their licensing deals look like, but they should sell subscriptions in foreign countries.

I pay $5cad/mo to get ad free access to the CBC catalog. I would gladly pay the same or even double for the BBC catalog or iPlayer (whatever its called).

OJFord•1h ago
They don't even offer that in the UK. Madness, imo, but true.

(iPlayer is free if you're a licence fee payer, but it's nothing close to the full back catalog, it's more like an 'aired recently' DVR with a tuner for every channel. Wouldn't at all be surprised if it's not even everything current though.)

(The Britbox joint venture with ITV was arguably closer to that, but still not, a curated collection.)

PaulDavisThe1st•3h ago
> A video platform could build community by letting people know if their friends and family have enjoyed watching the same programmes.

The answer is "no", which is why YT is so amazing

knowriju•2h ago
YouTube already has a very big albeit usual competitor - PornHub.
Gee101•1h ago
I can't seem to find any car related videos on the competitor. :)
jszymborski•1h ago
Disproportionate amount of bus and taxi related videos though.
5112314•59m ago
Agree, another point is that video content making is a space full of grifters, unlike other form of media.

Take Kick for example, made to compete against Youtube and Twitch, but ended up with mostly people who are banned by those 2 platforms for a good reason. "Kick streamers" is now a negative words.

So new players on this field has to be specific about curating the people posting on their platforms.

jpalomaki•20h ago
I first thought it would be easy for content creators to start selling their content on other platforms as well. But the algorithms come to play. It is likely valuable that the hardcore fans are watching and liking the videos on YouTube, since that increases the probability of the algorithms to push the videos to new viewers as well.
brador•20h ago
Views are down reasons: AI bot catchers now live and new ip blocks on vpns and cloud servers.
goku12•20h ago
Likes and comments are steady, apparently. How do you reconcile the reduced views with that? Anyway, nearly one-third to one-half of my video suggestions are bot videos. Honestly quite distasteful. They should just ask the users to flag them, instead of employing even more bots who're ever so enthusiastic to kick out those who do not belong to their race.
3RTB297•18h ago
I didn't make the comment you're replying to, but views can exist independent of comments and likes, and bots can just as easily like and comment.

Likes and comments by real humans can remain steady and bot views can vary dramatically. Likes and comments aren't metrics that produce revenue for creators.

brador•18h ago
There’s also black hats bulk producing AI videos and pushing those with bot farms, which reduces slots available to non AI/farm creators.

Survival of the clickbaitiest.

craftit•20h ago
My personal experience is that the increase in ads has encouraged me to subscribe to creators I like via Patreon and view content on there. If many people are doing this, I wonder if it skews the view statistics and, therefore, lowers the number of recommendations for the best channels. In turn, this makes it less likely for good channels to be discovered. The increase in YouTube ads also makes me much less interested in browsing there, and I am finding other things to do instead.
MinimalAction•20h ago
YouTube is a marvelous platform. I know how to live life, thanks to the innumerable passionate souls that produced relevant content and put their voice out there. This library of videos never fails to amaze me on how many weird, fun, informative tidbits of humanity it contains. As much as it is a for-profit endeavor, I wholeheartedly support this well managed space.
syncsynchalt•2h ago
I watch my son grow up learning to DIY from youtube videos. I'm marveling at the wealth of instructional video he has easy access to, and I wish I had it too when I had my first home, learned to work on my first car, etc.
lapsis_beeftech•20h ago
I was a daily, active, and paying Youtube user until recently and am quitting entirely. I was still able to work around many of Google's dark patterns – like the aggressive bot and adblock measures – but it was a chore I do not care to continue, and the emotional distress caused by the extreme hostility and toxicity around everything Youtube is too high a price to pay for content. I support content creators on Patreon but unfortunately many of them still use Youtube for hosting and those videos are not accessible to me any longer.
netcan•19h ago
>I also think it would take some doing to get advertisers to jump on a new platform when YouTube has almost all the viewers.

Volume isnt even your main issue here. YouTube ads are powered by adwords... that all advertisers already use. It comes with tracking and user-analytics built in.

You can't compete with YouTube by replicating this business model.

Even so.. direct YouTube ad revenue per view is low. Many successful tubers monetize with sponsors. That is replicable, if a (single) tuber has enough views.

I think there can be markets for smaller, paid video sites... but that's not really a competitor to YouTube. It's more like competition for substack.

The way YouTube is managed, including all the reasons for criticism, are why it is successful.

Legible rules have loopholes. Keeping advertisers "on their toes" with mystery rules is a strategy.

It makes sense to keep the platform as unoffensive as possible. Strict nudity rules, and other such "hard" rules. Demonetization gives yotube a chance to implement soft/illegible rules... many of them simply assumed or imagined. It also makes business sense to suppress politics a little. The chilling effect is intentional.. and understandable.

Honestly, I think the more open alternative to YouTube is podcasting. Podcasting has terrible discovery, and video is underdeveloped but... it also has persistence that proves it is a good platform.

Half of "the problem" with YouTube is Google running the platform and pursuing their own interests. These are somewhat restrictive, but they also make sense.

The other half is intense competition for daily attention. That's what a low friction, highly accessible platform does. You can't have everything.

Without all the restrictions and manipulations that YouTube do, the platforms would be 100% nudity, scandals and suchlike.

gethly•19h ago
People still think that Youtube of today is the Youtube of yesterday. But that is not the case ever since the first adpocalypse.

Youtube began as a video hosting platform where creators got a huge cut from ads being shown on their video page. Today, the ads are injected into the videos and creators get only a tiny portion of the profits - if any. The views are gone as only (highly)monetised content is being promoted by the algorithm. Google simply prioritises making money for themselves instead of providing a service that merely breaks even.

Youtube has done what most businesses do - they pay the initial opex costs and provide some kind of freemium, they get huge number of users, then they monetise the sh.. out of them. And it always ends the same - the platform dies as users leave. Youtube is not any different. It's just so big that this process takes much longer than usual. But do not be fooled, it is happening.

Nowadays, people are slowly realising that there is no more free lunch and that you have to pay for the content(see how many streaming services there are compared to just a few years ago). This is why paywall services like Patreon are so popular(and why I have created my own as well as it is one of few viable online businesses left in the digital space).

Content creators who are relying on anonymous views, that Youtube always provided and which is now slowly dying, will end up out of business and many in debt due to costs of the video gear they bought and oversaturated marked/competition. There is plethora of this "i'm broke" videos on YT itself exposing the harsh reality of digital content creation of today.

On the other hand, smart content creators have realised that the way forward is to build smaller community of reliable fans and use paywalls/pay-per-view model, where they can charge tiny amount whilst getting 95% of it for themselves, which incentivises users to pay(ie. i am willing to pay 10 cents directly to my favourite content creator rather than 5$ to youtube). Some are stuck in the middle with injecting sponsored content into their own, but that will die out soon as well and likely YT will ban it straight up sooner or later. There will be some networks that host multiple creators, like we already have with unauthorized.tv, censored.tv and others. The YT alternatives like Odysee or Rumble will not survive as they are using the same outdated business model as Youtube does but they lack the backing of Google(not just money but infrastructure).

It will take time but people will eventually flock to specific content creators instead of relying on algorithms to recommended them content they might be interested in - as this has been completely broken for a decade now and caused huge amount of great content creators to just quit for good. A huge loss to humanity as a whole.

This will be the next generation of content creators whom will understand that the game has changed.

cung•19h ago
I’m a paying customer, but my biggest issue is that the content and suggestions themselves are still ads. I feel like I am paying to remove ads from within my ads.

The videos I am being recommended are still about how natural McDonalds food is, how this natural supplement from XYZ is disrupting healthcare and how this coffee machine will revolutionize the way I make coffee.

If the recommendation algorithm would be a bit less corporate, I’d be a happy customer. That, plus Apple Watch standalone Youtube Music app.

apricot13•18h ago
fwiw I (a YouTube premium subscriber) recently enabled restricted mode myself due to the app showing me completely unrelated and 'scary' videos in searches.

After some searching I found a few threads where others had encountered this and restricted mode was the only thing that seemed to stop these videos and honestly they're jarring and unwanted enough for me to warrant enabling restricted mode and all the features it disables - YouTube please please stop these unrelated 'jump scare' videos!

as an example I'm scrolling through videos on how to fix a leaky tap at 10pm I'll come across a thumbnail 5 videos down with a ghostly face or trypophobia type thumbnail then another 5-10 videos down. in no way are they highlighted as sponsored and I find it hard to believe that Google with it's search skills and other far more relevant videos in the results can be returning these videos as results!

GavinAnderegg•15h ago
Author here. I woke up to a surprising amount of traffic! Some notes based on the discussion.

This wasn't coordinated between Jeff Geerling and myself. However, I did mention the post in the Bluesky thread that Jeff was included in. [0]

I concluded the piece with “[t]his space is ripe for disruption”. That was a really poor choice of words. I've since updated the piece to better match what I was trying to say. Diffs are available. [1]

On YouTube: as I mention in the piece, I think the service is excellent as a consumer, and I pay for Premium.

This piece was mostly written because I've been frustrated that YouTube is effectively the only place for user submitted video on the internet. I wasn't going to write anything until I saw the video from RedLetterMedia that I mentioned in the post. They have a huge following and were blaming something that might be related? Or might not? It's really hard to tell! I'm not a YouTube creator, but I assume having metrics that determine your livelihood shift out from under you as a creator must feel awful.

[0] https://bsky.app/profile/gavin.anderegg.ca/post/3lyeayuckv22...

[1] https://github.com/gavinanderegg/gavinanderegg.github.io/com...

slumberlust•13h ago
Linus Tech Tips has also noticed some really odd view to like ratio stuff happening recently as well. They discuss it in last weeks WAN show.

Something is going on.

shirro•5h ago
They said an LTT store message directed them to the Brodie Robertson video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hVwUjcsl6s so they did their own investigation which confirmed similar things.

It looks like Youtube might be measuring views differently and perhaps getting rid of unmonetizable views which doesn't impact the number of likes or revenue. I think the annoyance is over the lack of transparency and the power Youtube holds over content creators rather than any immediate concern over loss of income etc.

bigthymer•5h ago
May I ask for a link for myself and others who may be interested?
shirro•4h ago
The Wan Show is very long and waffley and strictly for fans. LTT clip segments of the show but the relevant segment is still nearly 40 minutes long https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JJ8dur6unc
OgsyedIE•4h ago
Structurally there's only a few ways disruption can happen to a platform that has existing centralized hosting of metadata and centralized hosting of data. Either the disruptor also centralizes both, decentralizes just the data or decentralizes both.

The second isn't viable in most real world cases until something changes the huge expense of decentralized CDN fetching. My gut says that the third would be on the losing side of almost every network effect.

Supermancho•4h ago
> On YouTube: as I mention in the piece, I think the service is excellent as a consumer, and I pay for Premium

Why? Because the tools that allow them to take almost 50% of the revenue (they say you earn) have low friction?

I would say the opposite. There is no customer service. There are endless legal pit traps that allow larger channels and companies to predate on smaller ones alongside the AI channels, which lead to the same end. The entire point of the platform is to push as much advertising as possible, while mutating a user's search habits. Ironically, this leads to videos becoming borderline useless for many use cases, without taking them off youtube. This is not a good platform.

I'm sure I feel this way because I don't have a bunch of content I'm afraid of being yanked from the platform. Another "benefit" of having a big youtube presence, is I would be forever worried about implied retaliation.

bitpush•2h ago
So .. you dont use YouTube since you detest the service so much?
OhMeadhbh•3h ago
I host videos on my own server and there's Vimeo and Mux. I guess you're saying it's the free-as-in-beer service that has a social network and recommendation network attached to uploaded videos.
joe_the_user•1h ago
Hmm,

One of the things that is notable about Youtube is there was once competition (Vimeo and Daily Motion) but they effectively outdistanced it. A bit like Amazon and Ebay. There are related things semi-competing like Twitch.TV etc, also, of course.

I suspect that the situation with the earlier video providers is that they were "bleeding cash" for many years until the process finally reversed - if they were the winner (again like Amazon).

I think this long capital investment process is what means that no one wants to or expects to step into the ring with a large, successful player. It took that player a long time to learn to be successful, that player will fight you to keep their relative monopoly and you will have to risk a lot of money.

Youtube content creators are effectively Youtube's suppliers. Youtube is squeezing and its "normal" - squeezing suppliers is part of the monopolist's playbook. Its unfortunately convenient for Youtube that people have been willing to make good quality video for nearly nothing since the tools to do so became cheaply available.

Why there is "no competition" for Nvidia, Amazon, Youtube, etc. Not that I like the situation but it's not an "unnatural" situation.

whatevaa•15h ago
Good luck competing with youtube. They are something called natural monopoly. Even if you get the technicals right, networks effects will kick in. You would need to bring in something revoliutonary to get people to move. Or youtube to fuck up something really badly.

And getting the technicals right won't be easy. Video delivery is not text. Will need dedicated datacenters if you ever get popular and want to keep prices under control. It's expensive.

bl4kers•2h ago
Grayjay can neutralize the network effect
daft_pink•12h ago
is it possible that restriced mode is more aggressive for users not logged in?

I feel instead of trying to force google to sell chrome, they should have forced them to spinoff YouTube and other non-search monopolies google has that are insanely profitable.

bitpush•5h ago
> they should have forced them to spinoff YouTube and other non-search monopolies google has that are insanely profitable.

I dont think I follow the logic. Having a successful business is not grounds for "forcing" to spin out. Airpods are extremely successful, and does that mean it needs to be a separate company? MacBooks are extremely profitable, so should they be a different company? Azure is widely popular, should they be too?

deepsun•5h ago
I'm worried that if one day YouTube dies, all that content will go down as well. At least you can store full Wikipedia archive.

And don't tell me it will never happen, I'm old enough to have heard that a few times already.

OgsyedIE•4h ago
The steady state idea that most people have about civilization is just not applicable once there is oil-dependent information technology.

Either we go up and eliminate the oil dependence but acceleration eats YouTube in a transformative way, or we go up and eliminate the oil dependence but societal fission eats YouTube in a catabolic way.

abstractbeliefs•4h ago
ArchiveTeam is working on backing up selected channels/videos to the Internet Archive, where they can also be watched via their Wayback Machine. You can help them decide what is culturally or historically important enough to save.

ArchiveTeam generally is an interesting project I highly recommend people read about.

Their YouTube project can be seen here: https://wiki.archiveteam.org/index.php/YouTube

And you can learn how to get involved (by running a virtual machine appliance) here: https://wiki.archiveteam.org/index.php/ArchiveTeam_Warrior

hsuduebc2•4h ago
I would be kinda worried that one day youtube just send them a take down notice because it violates something in their eula.
OhMeadhbh•3h ago
and you can use yt-dlp to download bits you want to save yourself.
JKCalhoun•4h ago
I have been personally archiving the channels with content I enjoy. I know that doesn't help the general population…
OJFord•2h ago
If stuff disappeared (even just the Youtuber rage quit, not necessarily end of the platform) and people were talking about being bothered about it I tend to think people like you would pop up with archives.

It's the really niche stuff that few if anyone would notice or care enough to talk about that would be properly lost. And if it's niche but there's a lot of care from the few, then that's one way that archivists are made.

Larrikin•1h ago
You should be locally saving any video you ever think you will want to watch again. Many of the videos I enjoyed in college of regular people just making stuff for fun (when being a content creator wasn't a thing) have been taken out by reruns of copyright searching bots and creators turning 30 and being embarrassed by what they posted in their 20s. One musical artist I followed decided to take down all of their old content because their latest album wasn't getting enough plays.

I save everything with replay value now, especially music.

phantomathkg•1h ago
Anything can disappear in this modern era. Thankfully YouTube is not DRM protected yet and you can do something about it. Any media company can take any video offline and your access to it will be gone. Same for ebooks, not only those tied to your account, but I was thinking, what if Overdrive/Libby terminate the access to particular library.
stepupmakeup•1h ago
Video quality apparently slightly degrades as youtube constantly re-encodes/processes things and there's at least one well-known example of a Neil Cicierega video being completely unplayable https://twitter.com/neilcic/status/911080613733580801?s=20 (not this specific video, but this has happened in the past)
Liftyee•43m ago
On a personal level, you don't need the entire platform to go down to notice the bitrot. Over half of my "Watch Later" and other playlists from 8(?) years ago are now "deleted/private" videos.
delduca•4h ago
My bet is that some of these channels actually do real and honest reviews. So what’s the point of companies spending millions on YouTube ads if those same channels they criticized get more views—precisely because they’re better and more honest? I feel like this is a kind of selective nerf.
egypturnash•3h ago
I don't think this monopoly is really mysterious. Storage costs money. Bandwidth costs money. Someone needs to pay for it and the only way to cover those costs at any meaningful fraction of Youtube's scale is to have a money printing machine like Google's ads.
margalabargala•3h ago
If the quantities of money paid to all the YouTube freelance advertisers is anything to go on, a video platform having their own ad network would itself be highly profitable.
ceejayoz•2h ago
That's a big assumption.

It's very possible that it's only that profitable at Youtube-sized scale.

bluGill•2h ago
you don't need youtube scale - but you need to be a lot bigger than most others are. You need to be big enough that ads pay for a full time ad salesperson as well as your other overhead.
bitpush•2h ago
> If the quantities of money paid to all the YouTube freelance advertisers is anything to go on, a video platform having their own ad network would itself be highly profitable.

Then why isnt everyone jumping at the opportunity to make a competitor? If it is soooo easy, we should have competitors. Nobody is stopping you from launching margalabargalatube.com and win the market.

Nobody, including Jeff Geerling, has an exclusive deal with YouTube to distribute the videos. Make it happen!

OhMeadhbh•3h ago
At the rates I use video, my CDN doesn't care I'm distributing video bits, so at my end of the use spectrum, video bandwidth costs no more than the CDN fees I'm already paying. But yes, that won't work for Netflix or Disney+.
oxguy3•2h ago
I think the idea is that they operate as a black box and work in mysterious ways, not that it's mysterious how they became a monopoly.
bluGill•2h ago
Also youtube is big enough that they can get cache servers in isp datacenters for the popular content - it saves the isp the cost of a bigger pipe so deals not offered in general exist. (Netflix also has this with some - or at least they were working on it years ago)
thayne•50m ago
I don't thinks it's quite that simple, there are other factors as well:

There are significant network effects. Content creators use youtube because there are a lot of viewers watching content there, and viewers use it because there is lots of content there. Since YouTube already dominates the market, it is extremely difficult for another platform to compete, even if it was better in every way.

Google can promote YouTube using its other monopolies/oligopolies. Most notably, google search prioritizes videos on YouTube over other videos. Also, being able to pay for video ads and search ads with a single vendor is probably actractive for ad space buyers.

Google also already has its own CDN, which probably reduces the cost of distributing the content.

dmix•3h ago
> Today I saw a video by the RedLetterMedia folks on this topic. If you’re not familiar with their work, be warned that the video is vulgar and juvenile (sorry, I love their stuff).

Huh? RLM is about as inoffensive as it gets

geerlingguy•2h ago
Heh, maybe haven't watched some of their deeper cuts; back in the day they were a lot more edgy especially with series like Plinkett Reviews. They've toned it down a bit, but they're definitely not a 'family friendly' channel in some of the content they release (not in a bad way, just... I wouldn't put on a random RLM video at a grade school function!).
game_the0ry•3h ago
Is it really a monopoly if alternatives like rumble and vimeo exist?
p1necone•2h ago
It's a hard question to answer for products that rely on user created content like this.

Rumble and vimeo provide basically the same service, but if you got fed up with YouTube and wanted to take your money (eyeballs) elsewhere, you can't, because rumble and vimeo don't have the same content at all. And if you were a creator you can't take your content elsewhere because there's no viewers.

AraceliHarker•2h ago
Even without directly visiting the YouTube site, it's impossible to avoid contact with YouTube because its videos are embedded everywhere. In that sense, YouTube's influence is extremely large. I feel that the FTC might have been better off trying to separate YouTube from Google rather than Chrome.

The blog mentioned that the forced activation of Restricted Mode could have reduced video views, and while it's true that Restricted Mode blocks live streams, which could affect those who focus on live content, it basically doesn't block soft porn, violent videos, or political content. So, I don't think it's relevant.

bitpush•2h ago
> I feel that the FTC might have been better off trying to separate YouTube from Google rather than Chrome.

On what joy? The biggest mistake that DoJ did was asking to court to divest Android & Chrome. Judge took grave offense at that (read the court's opinion) and there's a school of thought that said it distracted from the whole thing.

Once you start being imprecise, all your arguments fall apart.

mercutio2•39m ago
I am so fascinated by the different worlds everyone lives in.

I haven’t watched a video hosted on YouTube in years. But I hate amateur video. I never watch anything that I can possibly get through reading.

So in my tiny corner of user space, it’s really as if YouTube doesn’t exist except as an annoying thing Google puts at the top of searches I have to scroll past, reminding me to configure this device to use a different search engine.

Razengan•1h ago
YouTube's vast hoard of videos is a crucial piece of human history. If nothing else, it should be preserved via government mandate or something.

Ever seen a colorized video from 1900? It's like a time machine. Imagine looking at today's videos, 100-200 years from now..

BurningFrog•1h ago
Sorry to be cranky, but it's a bit annoying when people call market leaders "monopolies".

Words are best when they have meaning!

LastTrain•1h ago
Isn’t a monopoly just a market leader that leverages its dominant position in anti-competitive ways? The article does make a (weak, IMO) argument that YouTube is using its position to screw creators out of revenue by gaming metrics.
mercutio2•36m ago
Monopolies are not illegal or ipso facto anti-competitive.
nemothekid•1h ago
I doubt there will ever be an alternative to YouTube. "Disrupting" YouTube is difficult because the social conditions that created YouTube do not exist anymore.

Before you get into cdns, bandwidth, advertisers, and social features, you need to have content - and a steady flow of content. What was unique about YouTube is YouTube did not have to pay for content. People made acceptable quality content and uploaded it to YouTube for free.

Any new competitor eventually runs into the fact that

* Your largest users eventually stop posting if you don't pay them (because they can go elsewhere after using your platform as a springboard: see Vine)

* In order to actually pay creators you need to have the capital, legal, and advertising side completely figured out.

So on top of building a giant cdn, you need gobs of money to pay people to stay on your platform, and another gob of money because you will be sued to death (especially because once you start paying people, people will cheat, and pirate content).

All this means is YouTube has an incredible moat. If YouTube dies, I doubt there will ever be a replacement.

Workaccount2•1h ago
The answer is paying/watching ads.

Nobody wants to hear ad-blocking has negative effects. But it does, and it's effectively killed off any YouTube competitor.

All a VC has to do is read a comment section on the topic of yt to say "nope" to funding a competitor.