Im guessing this is the case or else the SK sources would be calling out that these workers were following visa rules?
>At least one of the Korean workers swept up in a huge immigration raid on a Hyundai Motor factory site in Georgia last week was living and working legally in the US, according to an internal federal government document obtained by the Guardian.
>Officials then “mandated” that he agree to be removed from the US despite not having violated his visa.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/sep/10/hyundai-fact...
When the media so blatantly cherry-pick what they choose to report and what they turn a blind eye to, can such a misinformed society really be called a democracy?
I did some research on B1/B2 Visa's it looks like the work allowed is rather restricted. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45207369
This is not caused by Trump; its latent attitude being surfaced.
Can you show us the proof?
> Most of the people had come on the wrong visa
Can you show us the proof?
> knowingly
Can you show us the proof?
You're very sure about it without all the details being known and people possibly still wanting to get out safely, without causing further conflicts by speaking out. I've done enough travel / border chats that if I ended up in their situation, I'd be keen to shut up and get out as soon as possible, regardless of my legal status.
The question being asked by the parent is if they stepped outside the boundaries of that visa waiver.
No one asked about visas. I didn't think that was an issue since I really was there for a week for a business conference, but maybe it was? After all, technically it was a "Tourist" visa.
In the end though, SFDC keeps almost all of its technical talent in the US. If the government really got annoying, they probably would have stuck to the local talent and forgotten about the rest of us.
A B-1 / B-2 visa is a non-immigrant visa that allows foreign nationals to travel to the United States temporarily for business (B-1), tourism (B-2), or a mix of both (B1/B2). https://www.boundless.com/immigration-resources/b-1-b-2-visi...
B1 Visa Subcategories and Special Cases
While the B-1 visa generally restricts employment and formal education, there are some exceptions under specific circumstances. These exceptions aren’t separate visa categories but annotations considered by the U.S. consular officers during the visitor visa application process.
Here’s a closer look at these special B-1 subcategories:
B-1 after-sales service visa: Companies selling equipment to the U.S. can leverage this visa to send assemblers for on-site service orders. Think of it as temporary technical support. These assemblers can perform tasks like installation, maintenance, and training, but the assembly work must be done by U.S. personnel.
B-1 in place of H-1B visa (temporary project visa): Some professionals might be eligible for a B-1 visa for temporary projects in specific scenarios. This option can be viable when an H-1B visa, typically used for specialty occupations, might be challenging to obtain.
B-1 instead of H-3 visa (short-term training): Under certain conditions, the B-1 category can be used for brief in-house training sessions or further employee education. It allows for skills development without needing a dedicated H-3 visa designed for trainee positions.
IMPORTANT! These B1 business visa exceptions have strict requirements. Working with an immigration service provider or lawyer is highly recommended to determine if a particular B-1 visa category fits your situation.
https://www.immigrationdirect.com/guides/b1-b2-visitor-visa/
From statements made and queries in law enforcement databases, [redacted] has not violated his visa; however, the Atlanta Field Office Director has mandated [redacted] be presented as a Voluntary Departure. [Redacted] has accepted voluntary departure despite not violating his B1/B2 visa requirements.”
You seem to try to make a bigger distinction between B1 and B2 than the US government does.
I don't trust the government and if they are in fact violating the law than I hope that there is recourse, I would bet however that there is a clause somewhere that says that they can rescind status if they like.
However The Guardian's evidence is a couple quotes from a leaked document, not a scan of the leaked document.
We do however learn the worker was from SFA: https://www.kedglobal.com/korean-smes/newsView/ked2022050900...
So probably not doing construction work as some of the claims and only arrived in June so not close to the start term of the B1/B2 6 mo allowed duration.
Its right there in the link the parent gave. As in they had a visa and ice acknowledged no violation of the terms of that visa in very plain english.
I have stamps from the US border that literally say B1/B2 on them.
If anything is undermining anyone's credibility here, it is not the article doing that.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_visa
There's also a picture of such a visa.
IIRC, US embassies in eligible countries are usually very picky about issuing B-1 visas. They assume ESTA works in most cases, so you need a strong reason to apply for B-1.
It's also very noteworthy that these people are still being imprisoned in the US on Donald Trump's orders - Trump having personally prevented the repatriation of the Koreans to Korea today. There is absolutely no reason to believe that we have the full story, or that the Korean government, or the Korean's individual friends/families/represetnatives feel free to speak freely as America seemingly holds their citizens hostage. To say that lack of further public disputes is proof that there is not more to dispute seems false to me.
We can debate the validity of the government's claim, I have seen an article which says that the workers were on B1/B2 Visa which has strict requirements for what is allowed from what I have read but also says the government in it's internal report also stated no crime was committed.
Which countries just repatriate those they accuse of crimes rather than prosecute?
Holding people in custody in order to negotiate a business deal is the definition of hostage taking.
Can’t see past the paywall but what did he do? Prevent the charter flight from landing?
> South Korean officials originally hoped the Korean Air plane would leave Atlanta as early as Wednesday afternoon local time, shortly after it arrived from Seoul. But the foreign ministry said its departure was likely to be delayed “due to circumstances on the U.S. side,” and a spokesperson for Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport later said that the charter flight had been canceled.
> At a meeting with Secretary of State Marco Rubio in Washington on Wednesday, South Korean Foreign Minister Cho Hyun learned that Trump had ordered the suspension of the repatriation process in order to discuss with South Korea whether its detained nationals — all of them skilled workers who were helping to set up an electric vehicle battery plant — should remain in the U.S. to continue their work rather than being sent home.
Nobody can, because it doesn’t exist. The E-4 visa mentioned in the article is a proposed new classification that a bill pending in Congress would, if enacted, create just for Korean workers, similar to the existing E-3 classification for Australians.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1101
8 USC §1101(a)(15)(H)(i)(b) has H-1B, 8 USC §1101(a)(15)(E)(iii) has E-3, and so on.
A treaty is not self-executing under US law unless it is both ratified by 2/3 of the Senate pursuant to the Treaty Clause of the Constitution and also contains language expressing that it will be self-executing upon ratification, in which case it has the same domestic legal effect as an Act of Congress. See Medellín v. Texas, 552 U.S. 491 (2008), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medell%C3%ADn_v._Texas for a recent SCOTUS precedent about this.
Many agreements which are treated internationally as treaties, including most US free trade agreements, are not considered as such for purposes of US constitutional law; many others are not self-executing even when they are ratified through the Treaty Clause procedure. These only have effect in US domestic law when implemented by implementing legislation passed by Congress, or to whatever extent the executive branch handles implementation through regulations, policies, or similar which it already has the authority to promulgate without new legislation.
Historically people have done it and a blind eye has been turned, but with the climate these days you want to be 100% in compliance of your Visa conditions.
From reading about what happened here it seems the South Koreans were on that visa waiver for their work trips. A lot of people claiming "it doesn't allow you to work" yet the visa waiver has a long long list of various types of work it does allow and it's pretty broad.
So it seems the ESTA isn't worth anything anymore. You can't go to the USA without a very very heavyweight working VISA. Ok. No more trade shows, conferences or general business trips.
There really isn’t much between a B-1 and an H1-B, so there isn’t much of a path forward here. That factory isn’t getting built until the USA re-instates previous exceptions.
Also that's not what happened. The ones responsible for the breach, IE Hyundai execs and management who took care of the visa waivers and asked their employees to setup production lines were not arrested, only the people who had little to say about capital allocation were. In a way, Hyundai investors would have been a better target than their workers since they choose the execs who chose to build in the USA.
I mean, there’s literally hundreds of countries, why would I go somewhere with the risk of being arbitrarily detained, if I can help it at all?
It's not that the Koreans are the only one's doing this. It's that they were the first to hit by this very new interpretation of the law. Now that this interpretation is public i don't think anyone's going to the US for conferences/trade shows/general business trips for a few years.
This new extremely strict interpretation means that the only safe way to travel to the USA for work is on a h1-b or similar heavyweight working visas.
This is fine if you wish to interpret it this strictly. There are of course consequences and as noted by many many non-US people above the ESTA business visa waiver is near worthless under such strict interpretation. Which means no more short term trips to the US office nor conferences or trade shows. The lack of something lighter weight than a full working visa for these sorts of things means the USA is closed for business.
What is “these sorts of things” to you? To me building factories and installing equipment on the factory floor is a different class of work that is generally prohibited under the lighter options like ESTA or a B1 visa. Here is what B1 allows as an example:
Consulting with business associates
Traveling for a scientific, educational, professional or business convention, or a conference on specific dates
Settling an estate
Negotiating a contract
Participating in short-term training
Transiting through the United States: certain persons may transit the United States with a B-1 visa
Deadheading: certain air crewmen may enter the United States as deadhead crew with a B-1 visa
I think many non-US residents observing this would be on the side of not trusting ice and are now less willing to travel to the USA for a work trip on a visa waiver.
Many Americans don't realize how badly Trump's bullying approach is backfiring internationally.
Our immigration system was nightmare before Trump and it’s only going to get worse because no one in this admin has any real intention of fixing it for everyone’s benefit.
In a war of attrition with China, guess which ally we’ll have to depend on to make our shit?
(Hint [1].)
[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_shipbuil...
https://www.reuters.com/markets/emerging/poland-signs-contra...
Enemy of thy enemy.
We protect Korea from the Kims. We also buy from them and treat them with dignity. Break those pillars and yes, China controls Asia and the Pacific in a way Yamamoto could have only dreamed of.
> and the war is mostly a defensive one for China
China holding Taiwan is a direct threat to the security of Seoul.
Some enemies are more beneficial to left unattended. Realistically, there are almost no scenarios in which it would be advantageous for Korea to enter a war against China.
> We protect Korea from the Kims. We also buy from them and treat them with dignity
Still not worth a war with China.
> Break those pillars and yes, China controls Asia and the Pacific
Still not worth changing sides to China
It would also require not making American steel and energy uniquely expensive, and American industry uninvestable.
Neither addresses the problem just provides a way to ignore it for longer.
There were here on B1/B2 Visas according to the reporting, which has a 6 month duration and rather strict requirements: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45207369
If they were here in the first case of the word, I would say they were definitely in violation. If here for the second case, perhaps not but if they did not get the "B-1 in place of H-1B visa (temporary project visa): Some professionals might be eligible for a B-1 visa for temporary projects in specific scenarios. This option can be viable when an H-1B visa, typically used for specialty occupations, might be challenging to obtain." they may have still been in violation.
https://www.immigration.go.kr/immigration_eng/1852/subview.d...
Doesn't look like it. Several restrictions on how many (max 5) dependent upon the construction budget.
If Korea selectively needs to bring over skilled workers, there are options. But hundreds?
"The L-1B nonimmigrant classification enables a U.S. employer to transfer a professional employee with specialized knowledge relating to the organization’s interests from one of its affiliated foreign offices to one of its offices in the United States. This classification also enables a foreign company that does not yet have an affiliated U.S. office to send a specialized knowledge employee to the United States to help establish one."
https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/temporary...
No, it absolutely can't. I'm familiar with the Korean visa system, and you're correct.
Examples of temporary business include:
Attending business meetings or consultations Attending a business convention or conference Negotiating contracts
Attending meetings and conferences are rarely the main duties of an employee but they are the main purpose of trips.
Similarly to how, if you go to Mexico on a Tourist Visa but answer a critical work phone call you would not be breaching the terms of your visa as the purpose of your trip is still vacation. However if you rent a house for 5 months and spend most of that time doing developer work, I think that the authorities there might be a little upset.
Was only planning a single family trip in the US in the next few years anyway, and Trump nicely gave me an argument to visit the Carribbean instead (because yes, I intend to work a few days from my vacation,I have to when I take more than a month off).
When you do construction work, or operate the production line it has to be done by American Labour.
The visas they have only cover setup, repair and education of the production line.
At that LG/Hyundai factory they were using Korean contractors for construction. So there was some breaking of the terms of the visa for at least some of the people.
However, ICE didn't need to arrest everyone. All they needed to do was send a warning. These companies don't want the trouble, they would comply.
Now you have many Koreans very upset. And people in my friends company are now scared to go to America even though they are management.
It's not good for anyone, it's just so short sighted!
https://www.ft.com/content/c677b9aa-2e89-4feb-a56f-f3c8452b3...
Blindly foolish.
S Korea is an ally, treat them as such.
They're building a factory in the US. Be nice!
You could just say you know someone at LG ;)
> However, ICE didn't need to arrest everyone. All they needed to do was send a warning. These companies don't want the trouble, they would comply.
The point is to reach quotas. Warnings and voluntary exits don't help with those.
> Now you have many Koreans very upset.
FWIW, the reaction among Koreans (i.e. in korea), especially the younger generation, has been quite mixed. Among age 20-39, only a minority expressed being "disappointed with the US' excessive measures". Among the older groups, the majority did react negatively.
huh? why??
It was probably a tactic to get stuff done.
Because if so, this outrage feels a bit "No stop, those aren't the color immigrants we wanted you to round up."
Anyway, the way ICE treats immigrants is going to cost the US dearly, both in monetary and in reputational terms. The US may not care much about the dignity of the foreigners, but their parent countries do. The charade about 'illegal immigrants' won't work anymore, because clearly that's not what's happening. It's like the foreigners are targeted to prove a political point to the domestic audience. ICE is acting like a rogue force and is really asking to be outlawed and sanctioned internationally. I want to see how long the rest of the world will remain restrained before they've had enough of the ICE abuse.
[1] The news I got from a US source (don't remember which one) was that all of them except one were on valid temporary work visas to set up the plant and train the new US staff who would take over later. That one exception was also on a valid visa, but 'productive job' was not allowed. But he was there for training, so no violations there either.
The rest of the world will remain restrained indefinitely. Yes, populist politics requires voicing outrage at this, but otherwise this is more a good thing than a bad thing.
Because salaries in the US in the real sector of the economy are often 5 times higher than even in other developed countries. So there is a huge drain of the best specialists to the US from all over the world. And no country wants to lose its best professionals.
deepsquirrelnet•2h ago
From another article:
> Images of South Koreans being shackled at the wrists and ankles have caused outrage in South Korea, a key U.S. ally in Asia that has pledged hundreds of billions in U.S. investment as part of tariff negotiations.
It’s just not smart, not good politics and not good business.
MBCook•2h ago
So in other words SOP
malcolmgreaves•1h ago
vuthery•1h ago
cwmoore•50m ago
standardUser•2h ago
scotty79•1h ago
toasted-subs•1h ago
14•26m ago
dd36•2h ago
JumpCrisscross•2h ago
How? (I’m really trying here.)
triceratops•1h ago
jfengel•2h ago
It will undoubtedly have negative financial effect on those same constituents, but there's always someone else to arrest and take the blame. It's fantastic politics.
seanmcdirmid•2h ago
ProAm•2h ago
sleepyguy•2h ago
Sleep well, folks—America is saved, one deported factory worker at a time.
Scoundreller•1h ago
When US engineers went to China to offshore US factories there, I doubt China got in the way. Probably watched with heavy interest but definitely not hindered in any way.
fnordpiglet•29m ago
It’s not about economics. It’s about racism and nationalism through and through. You can’t look at it with a rationalist lens or it can’t make sense. The issue is the dilution of a perceived whiteness of the American identity being threatened by non-white immigration. It doesn’t matter why the Korean workers were here or how tenuous or nonexistent the immigration violation claims were. It matters they weren’t white.
For proof, which hasn’t been particularly hidden, see the extreme efforts to create a false narrative (including the president confronting a foreign leader with photographs from a completely different country) of white persecution in South Africa and a recalibration of refugee program to prioritize white South Africans. It’s the whole “reverse discrimination” malarkey (as if discrimination is structurally one way) playing out with fabrication and lies since they couldn’t find real facts. A rationalist argument can’t be found, because it’s not rational - it’s just racist nationalism.
This is going to be remembered in history globally as one of the embarrassing low points that beggars the question of American moral standing , which is likewise a fallacious tu quoque argument. What’s going on ignores the fact the founding fathers were enlightenment liberal humanists of the extreme degree, and while creatures of their time, endeavored hard to establish a construct in the constitution and bill of rights a system that will eventually and stably arrive at an ideal liberal humanist society. They recognized with pretty clear sightedness their own imperfections in this regard and recognized society changes slowly, but believed the constitution and bill of rights would make the change inexorable. I for one agree after studying it for some time. This means this aberration we see today, which is reminiscent of Sulla’s attack on the Roman republic, was well planned for an accounted for. They knew clearly and better than we do the natural tendency of man, and specifically corrupt ambitious racist theologists as their time was steeped in, and built a system that mean reverts always towards a liberal humanist outcome.
The question to my mind is will I live to see the damage undone and is my daughter equipped to right the ship in her life time.
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brundolf•57m ago
fnordpiglet•47m ago
ciconia•47m ago