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Grapevine cellulose makes stronger plastic alternative, biodegrades in 17 days

https://www.sdstate.edu/news/2025/08/can-grapevines-help-slow-plastic-waste-problem
133•westurner•3h ago•79 comments

Betty Crocker broke recipes by shrinking boxes

https://www.cubbyathome.com/boxed-cake-mix-sizes-have-shrunk-80045058
149•Avshalom•3h ago•149 comments

Rebutting 33 False Claims About Solar, Wind, and Electric Vehicles

https://scholarship.law.columbia.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1218&context=sabin_climate_change
42•toomuchtodo•1h ago•17 comments

OCSP Service Has Reached End of Life

https://letsencrypt.org/2025/08/06/ocsp-service-has-reached-end-of-life
111•pfexec•5h ago•32 comments

Titania Programming Language

https://github.com/gingerBill/titania
44•MaximilianEmel•3h ago•6 comments

Website is hosted on a disposable vape

http://ewaste.fka.wtf/
111•BogdanTheGeek•3h ago•45 comments

Repetitive negative thinking associated with cognitive decline in older adults

https://bmcpsychiatry.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12888-025-06815-2
329•redbell•13h ago•127 comments

Writing an operating system kernel from scratch

https://popovicu.com/posts/writing-an-operating-system-kernel-from-scratch/
242•Bogdanp•9h ago•47 comments

Gentoo AI Policy

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Council/AI_policy
11•simonpure•2h ago•0 comments

Irrlicht Engine – a cross-platform realtime 3D engine

https://irrlicht.sourceforge.io/?page_id=45
30•smartmic•3d ago•17 comments

Trigger Crossbar

https://serd.es/2025/09/14/Trigger-crossbar.html
25•zdw•3h ago•2 comments

Why We Spiral

https://behavioralscientist.org/why-we-spiral/
222•gmays•10h ago•69 comments

Models of European metro stations

http://stations.albertguillaumes.cat/
674•tcumulus•18h ago•132 comments

Cannabis use associated with quadrupled risk of developing type 2 diabetes

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2025-09-cannabis-quadrupled-diabetes-million-adults.html
74•geox•3h ago•47 comments

You’re a slow thinker. Now what?

https://chillphysicsenjoyer.substack.com/p/youre-a-slow-thinker-now-what
255•sebg•4d ago•113 comments

FakeIt: C++ Mocking Made Easy

https://github.com/eranpeer/FakeIt
7•klaussilveira•3d ago•5 comments

Nicu's test website made with SVG (2007)

https://svg.nicubunu.ro/
139•caminanteblanco•10h ago•76 comments

AMD Turin PSP binaries analysis from open-source firmware perspective

https://blog.3mdeb.com/2025/2025-09-11-gigabyte-mz33-ar1-blob-analysis/
12•pietrushnic•3h ago•1 comments

J-Link RTT for the Masses using Semihosting on ARM

https://bogdanthegeek.github.io/blog/insights/jlink-rtt-for-the-masses/
9•kristianp•1h ago•2 comments

California age verification bill backed by Google, Meta, OpenAI heads to Newsom

https://www.politico.com/news/2025/09/13/california-advances-effort-to-check-kids-ages-online-ami...
52•heavyset_go•2h ago•33 comments

Introduction to GrapheneOS

https://dataswamp.org/~solene/2025-01-12-intro-to-grapheneos.html
125•renehsz•4d ago•138 comments

Read to forget

https://mo42.bearblog.dev/read-to-forget/
131•diymaker•12h ago•38 comments

La-Proteina

https://github.com/NVIDIA-Digital-Bio/la-proteina
18•birriel•3d ago•3 comments

Geedge and MESA leak: Analyzing the great firewall’s largest document leak

https://gfw.report/blog/geedge_and_mesa_leak/en/
395•yourapostasy•1d ago•118 comments

Observable Notebooks Data Loaders

https://observablehq.com/notebook-kit/data-loaders
68•mbostock•4d ago•16 comments

ChatControl update: blocking minority held but Denmark is moving forward anyway

https://disobey.net/@yawnbox/115203365485529363
446•nickslaughter02•6h ago•314 comments

Fukushima insects tested for cognition

https://news.cnrs.fr/articles/fukushima-insects-tested-for-cognition
112•nis0s•14h ago•59 comments

SpikingBrain 7B – More efficient than classic LLMs

https://github.com/BICLab/SpikingBrain-7B
142•somethingsome•19h ago•38 comments

Implementing namespaces and coding standards in WordPress plugin development

https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2025/09/implementing-namespaces-and-coding-standards-in-word...
22•taubek•2d ago•3 comments

A single, 'naked' black hole confounds theories of the young cosmos

https://www.quantamagazine.org/a-single-naked-black-hole-rewrites-the-history-of-the-universe-202...
181•pykello•21h ago•81 comments
Open in hackernews

Betty Crocker broke recipes by shrinking boxes

https://www.cubbyathome.com/boxed-cake-mix-sizes-have-shrunk-80045058
148•Avshalom•3h ago

Comments

AfterHIA•2h ago
Shiver mi' timbers Terence; it's been a hard day and only Kraft Dinner can calm my nerves.
brianwawok•2h ago
I feel like a giant buying groceries anymore. Oh great 10 ounce box of cereal; that will be 2 bowls if I am lucky. So dumb, just show the real price and keep the portion the same.
lbourdages•2h ago
The thing is that there is a greater incentive to shrink than to inflate prices. Or at least, to do a combination of the two.

Price-conscious consumers will probably choose the shrunk item over another brand that increased their price, even though the price per unit might be the same.

ajsnigrutin•2h ago
Sure, and ads are a nice thing on websites.

At one points, animated videos with sound covering all the content were too much, and people started installing adblocks.

Same with food, i never bought an 80g bar of chocolate and i never will, and i've gone home chocolateless because of that.

stephen_g•2h ago
Do you have price per unit on the price tags in your grocery stores? They have to show that by law in my country, not sure if it makes a huge difference because not everyone knows to compare though.
lbourdages•2h ago
We do, but not everyone looks at them. I certainly do not always look at it.

A pet peeve of mine is tissues/toilet paper/paper towels. Sometimes the price is "per roll", sometimes it is "per sheets". Sometimes it's even different between different package sizes of the same product. It's infuriating to have to bust out the calculator to figure out if the deal on the 6 pack is a better price than the regular priced 12 pack.

apparent•2h ago
Some stores where I live have this, but others don't. And at some stores that do show it, the only reasonable prices are the items that are "on sale". And the sale prices don't have the price per unit, of course.
dripton•2h ago
We do have unit prices, but sometimes they vary the unit from product to product within the same product category, making them useless for comparison. This one is by weight, this one is by volume, this one is by count. At that point you have to do all the math yourself, which most people won't.

I don't know whether that's done intentionally. Hanlon's Razor says to assume not without proof.

iterance•2h ago
Consumers may do this, but consumers also hate shrinkflation with a passion. Raising a price is understandable and a consumer can rationalize inflation, but shrinking the amount given can feel deceptive, untrustworthy, or exploitative. Brands that do it are playing with fire. They may not yet get burned.
neilv•1h ago
I wish there would be negative feedback to shrinkflation, yet, even in my own buying behavior (and I might do more things "on-principle" than the average consumer) I mostly still stick with brands of product I've found I like or that work for me, so long as the shrinkflation remains suspiciously mostly in lockstep with other brands.

What I've seen does get consumer negative feedback is when, say, Club(?) brand crackers change owners and formula, and lose their buttery taste.

And lately I've been wondering whether Post raisin bran has deteriorated to be the same as Kellogg's. I'm feeling less loyal to Post, and have started experimenting with more brands (e.g., WFM's store brand isn't much more expensive). And also straying to other kinds of product (e.g., Grape Nuts still offers fiber for healthy trumps, but less sugar than raisin bran, and it actually doesn't taste bad to adults).

Recently, I'm seeing more negative feedback to bean-counter-looking product changes in sensitive skin products. For example, Aveeno changed their sensitive-skin fragrance-free body wash to have strong fragrance(!) which made me and others incredulously furious. And Cetaphil (an expensive sensitive-skin brand often recommended by doctors, for which you might spend 10x what a bar of soap you used to buy costs) changed their formula in a way that caused many devotees to report breaking out in rashes.

(If you have sensitive skin, or you ever got painful contact dermatitis, and desperately replaced all the products that might've triggered that... you become a very loyal customer of whatever working solution you found. And a new CEO, perhaps trying to cash in long-term brand goodwill and customer base, such as to hit a personal compensation performance target, by changing the formula/process/quality... is pure evil to you.)

kjkjadksj•2h ago
Party size bag of chips is like $7.50 now. It’s absurd. I’m just buying potatoes and frying them up in a skillet lately.
yepitwas•1h ago
Amount shrinking isn’t as bad as the individual items shrinking (though both are bad). Or swapping ingredients for worse equivalents.

Totino’s pizza rolls are quite a bit smaller than they used to be, for example.

(Yeah, they’re trash, but they’re one of a handful of childhood-nostalgia trash items I allow myself a couple times a year, and it bothers me that they’re a different size now)

vachina•40m ago
In Europe grocery stores are obligated to show the price/kg or price/standardized weight on the price tag.
mh-•2h ago
> “It’s just so upsetting,” says Judith, whose cookie recipe was passed down by her mother. These “perfect little cookies” once made the rounds at bake sales, Christmas cookie exchanges, and birthdays.

> a box of Betty Crocker chocolate cake mix, two eggs, and 1/3 cup neutral oil

I realize it's not the point of the story, but this is like that Friends episode[0] where Phoebe finds out her grandmother's secret cookie recipe was just Nestle Tollhouse.

[0]: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0583536/

Avshalom•2h ago
I can't find the article about it just this second but that's actually really common.

Greenbean casserole was invented by a Campbell's copywriter.

neilv•2h ago
I've had the tiniest nagging confusion about that...

From what I recall, it seemed pretty common to use the recipe on the bag of chocolate chips, yet somehow each family's cookies came out different.

My mom's instantiation of the bag recipe, for example, were pretty consistent across runs, yet not quite like anyone else's (that you're exposed to at friends' houses, school birthdays, bake sales, church potlucks, family reunions, cafes, ad photos, etc.)

beloch•2h ago
Cookies are surprisingly sensitive to slightly different ingredients or practices. e.g. Using different brands of butter, different sizes of eggs, or storing the dough at different temperatures can have a large impact on the final product, even though the same recipe was followed.
MangoToupe•1h ago
Baking in general is very sensitive. I've made batches of cookies that I've tried to reproduce for years but, because I didn't take notes, could not. Hell even the altitude you bake at requires significant adjustment.
cheschire•12m ago
Cooking is art. Baking is science.
ceejayoz•1h ago
Volume-based measurements, too. One person's "half a cup" is not another's.

I've been much happier since I started weighing everything.

jhawk28•2h ago
Two main mistakes that people make: 1. "scoop and dump" approach to flour. Flour should be spooned into the measuring cup so its not packed in. 2. over-baking cookies due to cooking too long or oven that is too hot or not hot enough.
karlshea•2h ago
Flour should be weighed.
Dilettante_•2h ago
The flour should not be packed? I've always done it like that, it seemed so obvious that that would give a less random result that having it loose. I guess I'll weigh it and check against the markings on my measuring cup next time.
shermantanktop•1h ago
Weighing is the only weigh.
ip26•1h ago
Some pack, some sift and scoop. You have to know what the recipe wants. Weigh is in my opinion superior, it just wasn’t widely accessible before cheap digital scales.
ksenzee•50m ago
In my four decades of baking, I have never seen a recipe that calls for packing flour. It is always sifted, spooned and leveled, or weighed.
jtc331•1h ago
Brown sugar should be packed; flour must not be — you’ll get substantially more mass per volume than the recipes assume.
tzs•2h ago
Or measure flour by weight instead of volume.
Thegn•2h ago
I can speak to this - the main variations are in the kind of butter you use. Using salted, unsalted, or margarine result in similar yet different cookies. I personally use unsalted and feel like it creates the most “cookie” like experience. Flour brand and texture also makes a difference. You will get a very different result based on using the store brand vs (for example) King Arthur flour.
Avshalom•2h ago
Well I mean weight vs volume, actual oven temp, full fat vs skim, salted or unsalted. There's a lot of little variables even "following" a recipe.
cjensen•2h ago
The tollhouse recipe is amazingly fragile. Slight variations in temperature can make the cookies "go flat" or end up with a thick skin. No surprise there is a variation of outcomes using older ovens that were very imprecise.
Balgair•1h ago
I mean, also, when was the last time you had your oven properly calibrated? How sure are you that it's actually 350 F?
derefr•1h ago
IIRC this would mostly be temperature offset + ease of oven temperature swings in response to introduction of thermal mass; plus humidity and altitude (= air pressure.)

(If you want to learn about reproducibility, look up what the factories making the packaged-snack version of your food tend to control for!)

beloch•2h ago
If the origin of these recipes was indeed Betty Crocker's own marketing department, undoing a very successful bit of advertising in this manner would be hilariously dumb.

In any case, it typically pays to carefully observe how people use your products before you change them.

gwd•2h ago
Speaking as an American, this is a part of American culture that's so weird -- using a pre-made mix as a base for a recipe that it's not designed for. That recipe looks like it just has flour, cocoa powder, baking powder, and salt pre-mixed (with a load of other garbage you probably don't need). People don't seem to realize that you can just buy those ingredients yourself. It doesn't take that much extra time to measure them out, and it's way cheaper.
mh-•2h ago
I think people know you can purchase baking ingredients.

There are both familiarity (consistency) and convenience aspects here.

rjh29•2h ago
If you're only making cakes occasionally it's a pain to buy all the ingredients and have them sit around. Besides, even professional bakers use premix.
rimprobablyly•2h ago
Oh no they don't.
ericpauley•1h ago
Oh yes they do: https://youtu.be/CZDFwqHkPec

(Also linked above)

llbbdd•1h ago
The confidence. Why wouldn't they? The nobility inherent in suffering more labor to make a worse final product?
bigstrat2003•16m ago
You put in barely more labor to get a better final product, because cakes (and brownies, etc) made from boxed mixes never turn out as well as those from scratch.
llbbdd•8m ago
That's just not really true though. There are other ingredients in box mixes, such as conditioners and other incremental improvements grandma doesn't have a container of on her counter. You certainly have more control over the final product if you mix everything from scratch, but these mixes are popular for a reason; they make good cake without having to reinvent decades of kitchen science and allow bakers to focus on stuff that matters instead of dick-measuring about who can sift and measure flour the best.
al_borland•44m ago
When a baker makes the cake from scratch I’m alway disappointed. Boxes mixes taste better. They can’t beat the emulsifiers in those box mixes.
nkrisc•21m ago
What’s the difference between making the mix yourself, or just buying the exact same ingredients already mixed at the correct ratio?
phil21•19m ago
I’d say it’s probably more common they use mixes than they create from scratch from the limited experience and talks I’ve had with bakers on the subject.

The professional part are the modifications, frosting, and decoration. Hard to beat the premade mixes for a base though.

SamoyedFurFluff•2h ago
As an Asian I understood this as the same as when I buy curry cubes from the store. It would definitely mess up my day if the size of a bouillon cube changed even though I know I could make my own broth.
AlotOfReading•2h ago
Cake mixes aren't just the ingredients in a convenient package. They're a complicated ingredient that produces different results than mixing from scratch.

Adam Ragusea did a piece on the differences awhile ago:

https://youtu.be/CZDFwqHkPec

Boxed mixes came out of the same "scientific foods" fad in midcentury America that gave us things like Jello.

brian-armstrong•2h ago
This sounds like the argument people make against Hawaiian food. Why use Spam! You can eat real food you know!

Thing is, once something has been done a certain way, it becomes a tradition in its own right. It doesn't really matter how it got to be that way, but once people have nostalgia for it, they want to keep doing it the same way.

pessimizer•2h ago
Spam is a hell of a lot harder to make than cake mix. Cake mix is literally just measuring, and what was in the box when your mom made it isn't from the same suppliers, or probably of the same quality, as what's in the box now.
brian-armstrong•2h ago
But these bakers don't want "cake mix", they want the specific Betty Crocker cake mix
sevensor•2h ago
Do you, does anybody, actually eat Campbell’s concentrated Cream of Mushroom Soup? It’s nominally a soup, but it’s designed to be an ingredient. It’s the foundation of all our favorite gloppy casseroles.
WillAdams•1h ago
I was actually quite fond of it as a soup when I was young --- then I broke my jaw on the first day of summer vacation when I was 14 and after 6 weeks of living on various liquid foods, haven't had it since.
al_borland•43m ago
That was my sister’s favorite soup as a kid. I ended up having it a lot as a result as well.
Daneel_•16m ago
Yes, I’ve eaten it as soup for decades. It’s great with some pasta mixed through it too.
Xcelerate•2h ago
Homemade cake mixes rarely win blind taste tests against box mix. I baked two cakes with and without glycerol monostearate—it really does make a difference.
thaumasiotes•2h ago
https://satwcomic.com/family-time

On the merits of using a presold mix, you're likely to get a smooth batter with much less stirring effort.

ip26•1h ago
There’s a standardization element. You can find the same premix anywhere in the country, at reasonable prices, and it keeps well. At competitive pricing, I would even tend to think of premix as just another bulk ingredient, like “1 cup flour” vs “1 cup premix FOO”. You can see this with baking powder, chili powder, and curry powder, which you could definitely mix yourself but few bother to do.
mattkrause•57m ago
Depending where you are, low (and high) protein flour can be hard to find at the supermarket.
bigstrat2003•18m ago
> People don't seem to realize that you can just buy those ingredients yourself. It doesn't take that much extra time to measure them out, and it's way cheaper.

Yep, box cake mixes are a scam. They don't actually add any value, but people love to buy them because they (mistakenly) believe making cake is hard. In reality, most cakes can be made by dumping the ingredients together in a bowl, mixing, and then baking.

gus_massa•1h ago
The main problem here is that eggs are discrete, and you can't reduce a 30% when you use 2 eggs.

(Actualy eggs are classified by size, but nobody is going to search for the exact shrinked egg.)

Also, even a perfect escaled recipe will have different cooking time and temperature.

userbinator•1h ago
Eggs can be considered continuous with a large enough volume of them.
dmoy•1h ago
Also you totally can reduce an egg by 30%, it's just a pain in the ass.

Separate yolk and white (as though you were going to beat the whites). Weigh both, reduce both by 30%. Recombine.

Better is to just base the entire recipe off the weight of the egg.

Start with the egg(s), scale everything else to match. 50g egg? Cool you get even increments of 50g, 100g, etc. 48g egg? Weigh out 96g instead of 100g of the other ingredient.

dtgriscom•53m ago
Why separate, split, and then combine? Why not combine and then split?
saltcured•26m ago
I am guessing: unless you blast them in a blender, the beaten mix isn't really uniform and you may end up extracting more egg white or more yolk than intended when you remove some of this lumpy content.
manwe150•1h ago
Many recipes call for an egg and a white (or yolk) since it better approximates that scaling. Or if you double it, it becomes 3 eggs instead
inferiorhuman•51m ago
Sure you can. Scramble them a bit and weigh them.
senkora•2h ago
This definitely seems like a case where continuing to increase the price makes more sense than shrinking the box.

Maybe we’ll see a reversal if sales actually go down?

estimator7292•2h ago
The problem with expecting the fairy godmother of the market to fix food is that food is not a product consumers can go without. Sales can't go down.

Sales will, in fact, continue to go up as people now have to buy twice the item count to get the same calories.

The Market is not a benevolent magical entity. It is a machine that only has a single variable: profit.

Loughla•2h ago
Um. I'm not sure anyone needs Betty crocker cake or cookies.

You can skip about 7/8ths of every grocery store and still get your calories and nutrients.

Maybe people will start doing that?

ajsnigrutin•2h ago
Sales of betty crocker mix can go down.

Grandma will now search for a cookie recipe without the shrunken mix and go buy flour and eggs and vanilla sugar.

relaxing•1h ago
vanilla and sugar has also shrinkflated
MangoToupe•1h ago
Vanilla and sugar are both relatively fungible commodities. If one brand shrinks, buy another one.
WaltPurvis•2h ago
This is an article about cake and cookie mixes. Nobody has to buy cake and cookie mixes; the article actually covers a woman who has stopped. And even for other kinds of packaged food, if people can't count on the brand names they're used to, they're more likely to explore other brands or generics, so the sales of one particular brand could very easily go down.
kjkjadksj•2h ago
While that is true, no one needs betty crocker food to survive. There is plenty of food in the grocery store that is basically not essential at all and exist because of price and value proposition, and this is the stuff people are turning away from now that the price doesn’t support the value. Even among stuff like cuts of meat, people are probably shifting to cheaper cuts and bulk deals.
DonHopkins•2h ago
What a Betty Crocker of Enshitification.
rimprobablyly•2h ago
Aka Betty Crapper.
analog8374•2h ago
Speaking of cookie recipes, have you tried the Neiman Marcus Chocolate Chip Cookie recipe?

Bejabbers it's fine. Pecan flour. Walnuts. 2 kinds of chocolate...

Costs $50 to do a batch tho.

CoastalCoder•2h ago
Is every batch $50, or is some of the cost from stocking up on some uncommon ingredients?
mwilliaams•2h ago
Which recipe are you following? I found a few, including one on the Neiman Marcus website, but none had pecan flour and only one had walnuts.
xbar•2h ago
The one from email spam circa 2003?
eulgro•2h ago
Why would you buy overpriced cake mix in the first place? Buy flour, sugar, cocoa and sodium bicarbonate and... that's it?

Oh wait you probably have all of them already.

eichin•2h ago
According to some (youtube) experiments, commercial brownie mix produces some aspects of brownies more consistently because it's ground finer (and mixed more uniformly) than the ingredients you can usually source. So it's not quite that simple (though it mostly is.)
inferiorhuman•55m ago
So, cake flour?
al_borland•28m ago
From what I remember it’s more about the industrial emulsifiers. They give a more sponge-like cake they people tend to enjoy.
muppetman•2h ago
Because you live in a small apartment and don't have storage space for a thing of flour, a thing of sugar, cocoa you might use twice a year?

Because you have little kids and you want to give them a single easy-to-follow box with instructions on it?

Because you value convenience?

Honestly, what a silly take. The world thrives on convenience products.

foofoo12•1h ago
> Because you have little kids and you want to give them a single easy-to-follow box with instructions on it?

Box mixes are a very US thing. I promise you that kids still get to bake in other countries. Having done both it is my opinion that messing with the raw ingredients is more fun.

llbbdd•1h ago
Everything is a raw ingredient.
marssaxman•48m ago
With that attitude, you might as well just buy a finished cake from the store!
llbbdd•6m ago
You can, and you can use that cake as an ingredient in something else! But if your goal is to "make a cake" and put your own touches on it, likely that weighing out the ingredients is not worth your time outside of the educational context you describe wrt teaching kids. (e.g. "here's how cake is fundamentally made, and later here's a box mix that takes care of the most boring parts and works better than anything we can make at home without substantially more effort").
inferiorhuman•56m ago
Assembling your own cake mix is pretty easy if you really wanted to. Stick it in the freezer for whenever. However the prepackaged stuff is still likely to taste better because it uses industrial ingredients that will simply taste better.

A quick look at the first Betty Crocker mix I found on Safeway's site showed: corn syrup, xantham gum, and cellulose. Those will all contribute to the final texture and moistness.

kjkjadksj•2h ago
The people relying on cake mid probably don’t have any of that in their pantry.
Balgair•1h ago
I had a family member that used to work for the county in the SNAP-like assistance program.

He was aghast at the state of the average family. No, not the average one coming to the county for assistance, just the average.

The average household in the county was without a kitchen. Maybe a dorm fridge, maybe a microwave or a hotplate, typically neither. A Winnebago had better food preparation than the average county resident. Oh and the household thing was a huge misnomer, as census-wise the physical house has 3+ households in it. People were crammed in!. Plumbing problems were huge deals!

Like even considering to bake a cake on your own was laughable. You didn't even know of anyone that you could borrow an oven from. The poverty in the county was, and remains, shockingly high.

tpmoney•10m ago
Because they're not actually "overpriced"? A BC chocolate cake mix costs $2 at my local store. Let's compare to a cake recipe using ingredients from the same store and using this recipe [1] and this weight conversion chart from the recipe authors [2]. For grocery prices, I'll be picking the "normal" size item as if you were stocking a kitchen pantry (e.g. the 5lb bags of flour and the 4lb bags of sugar, not smaller "half the amount for twice the price" packs, but also not bulk packs).

* 270g flour: 65¢

* 6g baking powder: 10¢

* 3g baking soda: 1¢

* 4.5g salt: 1¢

* 64g cocoa: $1.15

* 354g sugar: 90¢

* 113g butter: $1.42

We'll skip the vanilla, milk and coffee in the KA recipe on the view that we're substituting for Betty Crocker cakes here, which aren't likely to have coffee and vanilla extract in them.

Both recipes require the baker to supply eggs and oil. KA wants less oil but one additional egg, the BC box mix wants more oil but one less egg. Calling it a wash here.

So the total cost for our home made cake, using just the portion of the ingredients that you (should) already have at home is: $4.24, over 2x the box mix. Even if you take out the chocolate and go for a plain vanilla cake, you're still taking $3.09. That KA recipe might taste better (in fact, it probably does based on my experience with KA recipes). But I'm not sure it tastes so much better that I wouldn't rather save the time and dishes.

[1]: https://www.kingarthurbaking.com/recipes/chocolate-cake-reci... [2]: https://www.kingarthurbaking.com/learn/ingredient-weight-cha...

Havoc•2h ago
Yeah I can understand shrinkflation style adjustments but they're starting to hit inflection points like this.

Amazon just adjusted the Amazon Grocery minimums +25%...and now it just doesn't work anymore for a 1 person household. It's not that I can't afford it...it's just too much stuff in one go. Forces shifting buying patterns from fresh to frozen & shelf stable junk. I'm not doing +25% bigger cart sizes for a shit diet Amazon

haunter•2h ago
>“It’s just so upsetting,” says Judith,

I'd be very upset too if my grandma was using a cake mix for cooking

nightfly•2h ago
Why?
MostlyStable•2h ago
There are professional bakers that use cake mix. Cake mix is basically the exact same ingredients as one would use if making their own, sometimes with the addition of ingredients that are usually improvements but that almost no home baker would regularly carry. Among all the various pre-packaged/pre-prepared ingredients, dry cake mix is probably the one for which pretentiousness about quality makes the least sense. And this comes from someone who never uses them and makes 100% of my own cake batter....but that's because my family bakes enough that I always have all the of the necessary ingredients on hand, so there is almost no extra convenience for us.
jandrewrogers•1h ago
A lot more precision and control goes into those cake mixes than the combination of ingredients you are likely to use at home. For baking in particular this matters if you want consistent results. The ingredients themselves are not all that special.
mattkrause•1h ago
For cakes, you often want less gluten (~7-10% protein) and that flour is not super common. All-purpose flour “works” but the product will be a little bit tougher because it a bit more protein instead.
bigstrat2003•9m ago
That may have been true at one time, or it might depend on location. But at least in my area, cake flour is super common. Every grocery store has it. It's not generally worth the hassle of stocking it in my pantry versus just using AP, but when I'm trying to go all out I can get cake flour no problem.
massysett•9m ago
Cake flour, any full-line supermarket will have it.
ksenzee•40m ago
The overwhelming majority of American women old enough to be grandmothers use cake mixes. For that matter, professional bakers often use cake mixes, including my uncle, who insisted on Duncan Hines brand. But more importantly, this idea that grandmothers made everything from scratch is outdated at best. Making everything from scratch is like woodworking. It’s a great hobby, you get amazing products out of it, it makes for nice Instagram videos, but it only makes sense for people who enjoy the activity in itself. The rest of us are buying cake mix and premade furniture.
nanolith•2h ago
Much to the chagrin of my mother, I made it a point about a decade ago to standardize old family recipes on "from scratch" versions. As part of the process, I also did some research on old recipes and fixed some of the corruption of these recipes that occurred during the copying and recitation, bolstering them with culinary techniques that were in use at the time. I also captured things that drift over time, such as crude protein and carbohydrate measurements and grind sizes in flour. I provided standardized weights and measurements, in MKS units, preferring mass, when possible, over volume.

She's upset that the recipes are different, but when it comes to recipes from the thirties and later based on using a box of this or a can of that, these recipes are resistant to shrinkflation. The downside is that these recipes miss out on the advanced chemistry that went into making these boxed mixes so great to begin with. But, in my opinion, that's a small price to pay for reproducibility.

Some recipes, like cakes and cookies, will need to be adjusted once a generation. For these recipes, I include notes about how to tell when certain ingredients are "off" so that these can be re-calibrated as ingredients change in the future. Ingredients change. Some are no longer available. Others are derived from newer varieties or hybrids that have different flavor profiles. For instance, bananas taste differently than they did sixty years ago. That old and dusty banana pudding recipe meant to reproduce that amazing pudding that your great-grandmother used to make won't taste the same unless you adjust the amount of isoamyl acetate; modern varieties have less of this compound than the old Gros Michel varieties did. You can occasionally find Gros Michel bananas if you want to taste the difference, but they are no longer a viable cash crop due to their susceptibility to Panama disease.

frainfreeze•2h ago
Very interesting! Have you by any chance shared the recepies anywhere?
zurtri•2h ago
Thank you for this. I had never considered this "drift" in recipes and ingredients.
e28eta•1h ago
I first learned of it reading the intro to American Cake, by Anne Byrn. It covers the history of cakes in America, through (updated) 125 recipes.

The current recipe for pound cake calls for 6 large eggs, but the notes on ingredients in the book’s introduction said early recipes needed 12-16 (!!) eggs in order to get one pound of eggs. Side note: pound cake uses 1 lb each of eggs, flour, sugar, and butter

al_borland•50m ago
This is very interesting.

I recently bought an older Better Homes and Gardens cookbook from 1953. I wanted one from before science took over the kitchen too much. I haven’t had a chance to cook anything from it yet, but now I’m questioning if I’ll have issues trying to cook with a 70+ year old cookbook, especially when it comes to baked goods.

I’m not into cooking enough to have the patience to experiment and tune things. If something doesn’t work, I’m more likely to get discouraged and order take out.

extraduder_ire•15m ago
6 large (US) eggs is between 12oz and 14.5oz.[0] This has been stuck in my head since I first learned European sizes were different.

0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_egg_sizes#United_State...

Blahah•2h ago
What a beautiful story. This - generally, a journey through the drift of recipe fidelity over time, and specifically grounded in your story - would make a great book. Mark Kurlansly has some lovely books that weave the history of recipes with history generally. His history of Salt is truly captivating.
tbcj•1h ago
Agreed. Salt is captivating and I’m grateful for the undergrad professor who assigned it in a class.
Balgair•2h ago
Wait I thought Gris Michel went extinct?!

Where oh where on God's green earth did they survive and can I get them shipped!?

AlotOfReading•1h ago
They still exist, mainly on small scale farms in tropical countries. You can find them in local markets.
striking•1h ago
Miami Fruit will reportedly ship them to you. Unless you live in California or Hawaii, much to my chagrin...
pests•52m ago
Link for the lazy:

https://miamifruit.org/products/gros-michel-banana-box-order...

$17 for a single fruit!

ggm•27m ago
They cannot be shipped to locations which grow commercial cavendish for risks of viral infection. Australia has restrictions in place on movement of all kinds of fruit and vegetables inter-state for exactly this reason.

Also, if travelling in S.E.Asia try the small "sugar bananas" and ladyfinger, commonly available in a few places alongside some of the dozens and dozens of "not-cavendish" bananas that locals eat.

airstrike•51m ago
Please consider publishing that somewhere! Dozens of us would appreciate it. I could even watch a small Netflix series about this, tbh
throwaway173738•26m ago
Seconding this! I would pay between $20 and $30 for a text that provided detailed information on variability in ingredients and how to measure or eyeball it and what to do to mitigate it.
dfxm12•38m ago
She's upset that the recipes are different

If she's like my mother, she probably thinks of these recipes as a connection to her parents and grandparents. The importance is not in the finished dish, but in the history of this specific artifact, including: the hand writing, the original index cards, the references to the bowls she remembers as a little girl. I understand this. When I see my grandmother's recipes, hand-written in broken English, it makes me smile, because I can't not read it in my grandmother's voice. Ok, these aren't cakes and cookies, so there's no need to be precise, so I do the recipe updates in my head anyway.

When updating the recipe, consider this. If you're laying it out on paper, at least keep a reference to the original recipe, a photo, etc. I have a professional cookbook like this. It has excerpts from journals from the 18th or 19th century with the original recipe, and also recontexualizes them for today's ingredients, tools and techniques. You get both the history and the dish.

joshstrange•7m ago
I’ve also digitized some recipes and had to deal with “1 can” or “1 bar” without size included. Some things aren’t sold like that anymore or their size has fluctuated. In the example about it was for a candy bar pound cake and “1 can of Hershey’s syrup” isn’t a thing anymore that I can tell and even if it was, I had no clue the size. Same with “1 Hershey’s bar”, uhh, no clue what 1 standard bar was then. Thankfully my mom was able to fill in the gaps but let this be a lesson, if you have family recipes you love, get it written down with actual units, you’ll thank yourself later.

Next on my list is converting everything to mass where possible. It’s so much easier to measure with a kitchen scale than it is to wonder “did I pack the X in too tight or too loose into this cup?”.

cptskippy•2h ago
I wish they would just increase the price. The shrinking can sizes have messed quite a few of my recipes.

It's deceptive and people know something is off. I personally don't have the energy to figure out what's up and don't want 3/4 of a can of something sitting in the fridge.

My response is to just stop making broken recipes which means I stop buying those products entirely as they have lost their value and my trust.

rimprobablyly•2h ago
Hopefully this'll be the end of this boxed mixes. You need to add a few ingredients to them anyway. Just add a few more and feel like a sourcerer. Your cakes will glow octarine.
xbar•2h ago
A Sauceror? You can also make your own spaghetti and become a Pastamancer...
xbar•2h ago
I hope Duncan Hines is reading this.
UberFly•2h ago
Shrinkflation has made me healthier. I just buy the basic ingredients and make everything myself now. Sad that every part of being a consumer any more feels like I'm being had. Costco is the only place that I feel is being straight with me.
kikokikokiko•1h ago
The most infuriating case of shrinkflation I've encontered yet is abot the "Oreo" style cookies, that were used to be sold on packages where each cookie was stacked on top of another, "laying flat". Over time, rhe packages started getting lighter, the cookies itself started getring smaller etc. Then, a couple years ago, those packages started having the cookies "side by side", instead of laying one on top of the other... I refuse to buy any brand that uses these types of shenanigans. Fuck shrinkflation.
cosmotic•1h ago
If the box mix stops working then people will stop buying it and throw the recipes away, leading to a lasting reduction sales.
al_borland•33m ago
I assume the boxes are tweaked to still properly make what they’re supposed to make. The issue is when people use them as a shortcut to make other things. At least that’s how I read it.
tagawa•1h ago
Original source: https://www.thekitchn.com/grandmas-arent-buying-boxed-cake-m...
cbhl•1h ago
Assuming that the boxes are 13.25oz/18.25oz, looks like an updated recipe could be:

- 2 boxes cake mix

- 3 eggs (rounding up from ~2.9 eggs)

- 1/2 cup neutral oil (rounding up from ~0.48c)

YMMV

foofoo12•1h ago
I think you need 371 boxes of cake mix to skip rounding errors. Granny wants consistency.
twodave•1h ago
Ostensibly not since she didn’t bother changing the recipe when the box shrank to ~15oz.
cheschire•6m ago
The factory must grow.
declan_roberts•1h ago
When I actually started cooking I was shocked at how simple a lot of these box ingredients actually are.

They somehow tricked a whole generation into buying "pancake mix" which is just flour, sugar, baking soda and salt!

ip26•1h ago
The no-frills commodity mixes often seem quite cheap so it’s possible the price was still pretty fair.
twodave•1h ago
I looked into this not long ago, and the main ingredient that is hard to store the way you would a mix is fat. Most recipes need it, and “wet” fat like butter or oil behaves quite a bit differently than the milk solids or whatever else they add to premixes. It’s not impossible to account for, of course, but there is a real convenience factor.
roxolotl•48m ago
You can actually buy stuff like that if you really want to keep a mix on hand.

The King Arthur powders are great:

https://shop.kingarthurbaking.com/items/bakers-special-dry-m...

https://shop.kingarthurbaking.com/items/dried-buttermilk-pow...

And I’ve never tried it but here’s powdered butter:

https://hoosierhillfarm.com/shop-products/butter-powder/

ksenzee•45m ago
Why on earth would I make pancakes from scratch when I can buy Krusteaz? If someone gets enjoyment from buying their flour, sugar, baking soda, salt, buttermilk, and oil separately, and turning pancakes into an entire weekend morning activity involving a sinkful of dirty dishes, then they should definitely do that. Meanwhile I’m dumping a cup of Krusteaz into a bowl, adding water, and eating pancakes within five minutes of walking into the kitchen.
al_borland•35m ago
How is dumping a cup of Krusteaz and water into a bowl producing more dirty dishes than adding flour, sugar, baking soda, and salt to the same bowl? A couple measuring spoons?

The upside of having the ingredients is that you don’t need to specifically plan for pancakes. You can make them at the drop of a hat, along with many other things, as long as you keep the staples on hand.

My mom always makes pancakes from scratch, and she seems to have them together in just a few minutes as well. Last time when she asked if I wanted some, I said I didn’t want to be a bother, and she went on about how easy they are.

jghn•29m ago
Because most people probably have all of those ingredients in their pantry anyways?
pluc•1h ago
Yeah but did you see the yacht it bought?
geeblegobble•56m ago
Judith’s recipe passed down by her grandmother was this: follow the instructions on the box. Lol wtf? I guess some grandmas don’t really know how to bake.
charles_f•47m ago
What I hate most about shrinkflation is how shady it is. That recessed middle section in cookie boxes so that they give me one less cookie makes me feel like I'm being played for a fool, and I do not like that.

With that said, if the grandma's secret receipe is industrial cake mix, I don't know how much of a secret receipe it is. Especially since these are usually mostly flour, some sort of yeast or another, and chocolate or sugar, feels like something pretty straight forward to fix.

moolcool•5m ago
> With that said, if the grandma's secret receipe is industrial cake mix, I don't know how much of a secret receipe it is

Ehh, there’s nothing wrong with a recipe containing a shortcut if it works, and standardizing on “a box of cake mix” as a measurement makes sense, because who wants to have 1/10th of a box of cake mix in their cupboard?

nixosbestos•39m ago
I love how capita, er, enshittification is taking hold in every fucking god damn last corner of our puny lives. I know I'm stretching enshittification a bit here, but it's the same basic premise at it's heart. Exploit your captive, often naive/ignorant audience. It's so, so exhausting.
al_borland•29m ago
Shrinkflation has been a thing for a long time. It goes in cycles. They shrink everything to preserve their profits in lean times, then in a few years they will compete with each other by adding the product back. You’ll see boxes with labels like, “now with 20% more ______!” All they’re doing is giving back the product they took during the shrinkflation era and acting like they’re doing you a favor.
mjcohen•30m ago
Clif bars recently went from 6 bars per box to 5. They write the 5 on the box as if it is something improved, not reduced.
DimmieMan•29m ago
Leavener example might be genuine tweak because they thought it would be better but it could easily be cheapening of ingredients which is a problem with premade mixes too.

The box might be the same volume but i'd expect most mixes wouldn't taste the same these days either. Any mix with chocolate in particular has had the cocoa quantity + quality reduced to the point I can often barely taste it because it's such a comparatively expensive ingredient.

Who else has family recipes with "can of X"? that can of soup from 50 years ago is not the same as today for the worse. I know one of my parents recipes will be gone forever if the creamed corn they use is discontinued or changes to be like every other brand.

anigbrowl•4m ago
[delayed]