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Boring Company fined nearly $500K after it dumped drilling fluids into manholes

https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/elon-musk-boring-company-fined-150000426.html
157•eloisius•2h ago

Comments

ChrisArchitect•2h ago
Related:

Boring Company cited for almost 800 environmental violations in Las Vegas

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45540585

consumer451•1h ago
There was an amazing YouTube poop format satire video with Musk saying: ~"There are no consequences. Life has no meaning."

I can no longer find it. If anyone else can, it might be nice to link here.

sharkjacobs•1h ago
Indignation is anger plus self righteousness. Social media companies have found that they see the best return on content which is both shocking and serves users' confirmation bias.

"This thing you already hate is just as bad as you already thought."

Do companies run by Elon Musk violate ethical and environmental regulations much more often than other similar companies, or does it just seem that way as a casual news reader because it is more worthwhile for outlets to publish a story when it happens?

I'm open to the idea that they really are worse, it would be very "on brand" for Musk, but I wish I had a sense of the numbers

bawolff•1h ago
The part that shocks me is they were told to stop, pretended to stop, and then restarted again. I was under the impression that usually the system comes down quite hard on people who show that level of intentionality.
add-sub-mul-div•1h ago
Maybe things find it so easy to get worse because so many people would rather virtue signal being above having an explicit stance than choose one that's unpopular or be accused of being partisan.
BriggyDwiggs42•1h ago
This is a valid take, but I also wonder if there’s anything to be gained by chastising those who complain about the musk company. Nobody does a thing about any company being shitty, a company is singled out by the mob for critique in a way that may (?) lead to some kind of consequence, and my thinking is you may as well join in to get something rather than nothing done. The real issue is that public outrage does absolutely nothing most of the time.
kelnos•1h ago
If this was one thing in isolation, I'd easily believe that many/most other companies are just as bad, and get slapped with small fines like this that they treat as a cost of doing business (and ends up being cheaper than the cost of doing the right thing in the first place).

But it looks like they were, in total, fined for 800 or so environmental violations, which feels like a lot of violations: https://www.propublica.org/article/elon-musk-boring-company-...

apical_dendrite•13m ago
> Do companies run by Elon Musk violate ethical and environmental regulations much more often than other similar companies, or does it just seem that way as a casual news reader because it is more worthwhile for outlets to publish a story when it happens?

He's contemptuous of regulators, doesn't care about his or his company's reputation (or at least negative publicity doesn't seem to change his behavior, although he whines when people criticize him), has an extreme tolerance for risk, knows that he has unlimited resources to fight off lawsuits and regulators, has donated vast sums of money to the current president, and at least at Twitter, got rid of all the people who were working on safety issues.

So it's not a surprise that there are more ethics violations then at a company where the executives still go by the "don't do anything that would get your name in The New York Times" rule.

atmavatar•3m ago
> Do companies run by Elon Musk violate ethical and environmental regulations much more often than other similar companies

This strikes me as a completely wrong-headed take on it. It's not OK for one company to do this merely because others do the same or worse. I'd much prefer no companies violate ethical and environmental regulations.

I applaud the exposé not because of Elon's political leanings or even because he's involved with the company at all, but because I hope it's at least a little push towards the company behaving better. Should there be other companies requiring similar exposés (and I think we all there are), I look forward to reading them if/when Politico or some other journalist outlet publishes them, regardless of the political affiliations in the offending companies' leadership.

I don't quite understand this mentality that it's not OK to investigate or otherwise bring justice to organizations considered right-leaning until it's been exhaustively proven no organization on the left is at least as bad.

If you don't want right-leaning companies being the first in the crosshairs, maybe join the team and convince them from the inside that flagrantly violating the law in front of the very inspectors sent to verify legal compliance only to resume doing it the moment they believe said inspectors left but without verifying it is really stupid.

If you have a large number of corporations breaking the law, you have to start your investigations somewhere, and the company with the giant neon sign saying "we're breaking the law!" is as good a spot to start as any.

AlexandrB•1h ago
The Boring Company seems like a total nothingburger at this point. The Las Vegas Loop is not particularly impressive and it's taking a long time to expand it. Nothing about this feels revolutionary or even evolutionary. Just novelty.

The fact that Teslas can't navigate autonomously even in these controlled, enclosed environments is also quite embarrassing.

nrhrjrjrjtntbt•1h ago
What do they do that is more impressive than routine tunnels built in cities for the last few decades (or even between different soverign countries under the sea!)?
ggreer•1h ago
Their main differentiator is cost. The Boring Company bid $48.7 million for the initial LVCC loop. The total cost to complete it was $53 million. The second cheapest bid was Doppelmeyer Cableliner, which would have built a people mover for $215M. The people mover would have had about 50% more capacity per station, but at 4 times the cost.

Tunnel cost is mostly dependent on the volume of material removed, which means that cost goes up linearly with length but with the square of the tunnel diameter. Trains and people movers tend to require significantly larger diameter tunnels, so their costs tend to be much higher. Also Boring Company tunnels don't need much infrastructure in them, so they save money on rails, high voltage power systems, rolling stock, etc.

Rebelgecko•1h ago
How do their operating costs compare?
wyldfire•1h ago
It's an outstanding mechanism to derail public transit efforts, that's all. It's not a nothing burger because that would suggest it's a good faith effort that just didn't pan out.
jazzyjackson•1h ago
People like to die vote this because it's apocryphal that the purpose of hyperloop was to sabotage public transit but the motive sure fits the crime, musk ain't in the railroading business.

They even derailed (no pun intended) a train link from Building 37 to O'Hare by offering to build a train station in the cavern already dug for a high speed rail terminal that may exist someday in the future. I don't think they ever did anything there but the city was onboard (damn a lot of idioms are train related huh)

jcranmer•55m ago
> because it's apocryphal that the purpose of hyperloop was to sabotage public transit but the motive sure fits the crime

Elon Musk told his biographer that the purpose of his Hyperloop proposal was to kill CAHSR. That's not exactly apocryphal.

terminalshort•18m ago
Too bad he didn't succeed in killing that $100 billion boondogle.
testing22321•1h ago
> Nothing about this feels revolutionary or even evolutionary.

They were trying hard to make a TBM that was faster than the current literal snails pace and cheaper than existing ones. It doesn’t appear they’ve had much success, though I’d rather they tried than just sticking with the status quo forever.

> The fact that Teslas can't navigate autonomously even in these controlled, enclosed environments is also quite embarrassing.

They can, regulations just don’t allow it yet. Coming soon (tm)

jazzyjackson•1h ago
Were they even trying to redesign a TBM? I think they were just using off the shelf boring machines at a smaller diameter (many tunnels one lane each) because building tunnels wide enough for a highway is exponentially more expensive.
theptip•23m ago
Elon did some napkin math along the lines of “we will make tunnel boring ~10x faster by: 4x lower boring surface area, 4x faster boring because the industry are currently idiots not operating their machines at the limits that physics dictates”. (I can’t remember if there was actually another factor of 2 in there)

Making a much faster TBM was absolutely part of the initial plan.

bawolff•1h ago
How is that only a $500,000 fine???

Stopping when inspectors are there only to restart once they leave is willful enough that you wonder why this doesn't go into criminal liability?

TulliusCicero•1h ago
It's rare for even blatant misconduct of this kind by a company to result in criminal charges.

Which is stupid, obviously. If it's intentional/willful breaking of the law, send them to jail the same way you would for an individual.

charcircuit•1h ago
To be fair it's over 3 times the amount of damage they caused, so that is a pretty big profit margin on cleaning up the mess.
hvb2•9m ago
Profit margin? What a weird point of view.

They should just follow the rules, period. And any fine should be larger than the amount of money they saved by their illegal behavior and cover the corrective actions.

Here's a thought experiment. They're tunneling beneath your house and, because they skip all normal precautions, your house collapses. Sure, you don't mind as long as they're fined a decent amount, right?

lelandfe•1h ago
ProPublica's reporting has been dogging Boring's heels in Las Vegas on this, I've been reading them religiously. It appears that the city views this project as Cool™ and opts either to not fine or fine pittances for constant violations.

This was their big expose back in January: https://www.propublica.org/article/elon-musk-boring-company-...

ETH_start•35m ago
ProPublica is extremely left-wing. That doesn't imply that their journalism is low-quality or inaccurate, but it does suggest that their choice of stories will be colored by that ideological/establishment-friendly bent. You won't see them investigating the political influence exerted by public sector unions for example.

Their X feed gives a pretty clear picture of that:

https://x.com/propublica

JumpCrisscross•22m ago
> That doesn't imply that their journalism is low-quality or inaccurate

Anecdote: in some early reporting, I noticed a citation to a paper that didn’t support the purported argument. (It said the opposite.)

I emailed the author, one of the founding journalists at Pro Publica and an award winner. He basically thanked me for the feedback and then left the article unchanged.

Pro Publica is reputable for a small publication. But they are not authoritative.

httpsoverdns•5m ago
What exactly was thing the subject matter? Was it something he could have reasonably disagreed with?
CursedSilicon•5m ago
"Don't dump toxic waste into fucking manholes" is "left-wing" now?

You're gonna have a real head spin moment when you find out who founded the EPA!

hvb2•1m ago
Why does left or right even matter? This is ordinary stuff that should be covered?

If you've read the article, you can see how

- they were told to stop, and refused

- lied about what they did to make the problem look smaller

- reversed corrective action as soon as they thought the inspectors left

This has nothing to do with bias. A right wing outlet should've covered this too. They might have used some different words but I don't see how this can be anything other than intentional. In the end their own legal department had to step in and acknowledge that they won't do any other projects before putting in remediations.

PeterHolzwarth•1h ago
Fines start small, then get big.
viraptor•38m ago
That's the idea in general, but show us how that applies to this company. They're at ~800 violations https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/elon-musks-boring-compan...
terminalshort•21m ago
They didn't hire an inspector, and they counted each day they didn't hire the inspector as 700 different violations, so I don't really trust their reporting on this.
ulfw•57m ago
Do you know who runs that company???
therobots927•25m ago
Corporations are never held accountable in America
binary132•1h ago
Some of these companies seem to have figured out that you can just do things and get away with it if you don’t mind paying a few fines (maybe “fees” would be a better term??)
bamboozled•1h ago
Some? This is basically how we let society work now. If you have money, you can do really abhorrent things and just get away with it with almost zero consequence.

We have the law and the police setup to protect the rich from any real rebuttal to this status quo so we're locked in.

XenophileJKO•50m ago
I guess my question is when was it ever not this way? Seems way better now than in the past.
acomjean•29m ago
A lot of times the businesses are long gone when the cleanup needs to be paid for.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superfund

captainkrtek•25m ago
Especially if you donate money to politicians in power, extra perks
ProofHouse•16m ago
Honestly this is extra repulsive coming from the richest man in the world
rkagerer•11m ago
Separate from the fines, why doesn't CCWRD litigate to get their cleanup costs back?

CCWRD says that its crews ultimately had to clean 12 cubic yards of “drilling mud, drilling spoils, and miscellaneous solid waste” from one of its sewage treatment facilities due to Boring’s discharges across two of its project sites

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