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France pulls last gold held in US for $15B gain

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482•mooreds•19h ago•368 comments
Open in hackernews

France pulls last gold held in US for $15B gain

https://www.mining.com/france-pulls-last-gold-held-in-us-for-15b-gain/
94•teleforce•2h ago

Comments

carefree-bob•1h ago
Good for France to relocate gold back to their own territory, but, uh, how can this result in a 15 B gain?

"The overall size of France’s gold reserves still remained unchanged at roughly 2,437 tonnes, which are now entirely held at the BdF’s underground vault in La Souterraine."

Is this some special form of French accounting, where the gold becomes more valuable when it returns to French soil?

kzrdude•1h ago
They sold the existing holdings and bought new of equivalent weight(?), so somehow they ended on profit on those moves.
tonfa•44m ago
The profit is just realizing the gains (resetting the cost basis for accounting purpose).
somenameforme•1h ago
Over about a year they sold their 'non-standard' (seems to be bars below the modern purity standards) US reserves, and replaced them with new reserves purchased elsewhere which are now stored in France. As the price of gold continued to rise as they did this, they ended up making a bunch of dinero while also centralizing their reserves.
eru•1h ago
I don't understand this. Did they increase the overall amount of gold they held?
KaiserPro•1h ago
Sold it at the peak, and then bought it locally a few months later.
rstarast•1h ago
First sell the gold, then buy same amount at a slightly lower price a bit later (on average)
xvedejas•1h ago
> the price of gold continued to rise as they did this

This would mean they sold low and bought high, right?

renewiltord•54m ago
It’s because they’re using European mathematics. You wouldn’t understand if you’re American.

In reality the article is attempting to account for a capital gain pnl accounting for taxes.

DaedalusII•52m ago
price of gold dropped from $5500 to $4600 in the last few weeks then came back. all is possible
mort96•23m ago
Then they didn't make money as a result of the price rising, which is what the original commenter and article claimed.
coldtea•40m ago
Usually that's how you want your selling and buying combos to be...
berkes•1h ago
But the gold price has been rising (on average) a lot over the period July 2025 to January 2026
tonfa•45m ago
From the annual report, it looks like the headline number (XXB gain) is just because it's realized capital gain (which due to their reporting requirement appears in their annual report, unlike unrealized gains).

They have ~same amount of gold between both years and it doesn't look like they took extra market risk.

wqaatwt•55m ago
Impossible to make anywhere close to that amount since they only sold 129 tonnes
berkes•1h ago
> As the price of gold continued to rise as they did this,

Seems counterintuitive to me. This would only make gains when they bought the new gold before selling the old, or when there's some arbitrage going on between Gold/USD, Gold/EUR and USD/EUR.

If they first sold the old for USD, then bought the new for USD, with a rising gold price, they'd miss the price-gain during the time between the trades, when they held the USD. It'd be a loss, not a gain.

If there's some arbitrage going on, then I highly doubt that brings $15B gain. The differences would have to be huge.

I think the (author (AI)) writing that article is simply mixing up stuff. I think this gain is not a cause-effect of the conversion, merely the gains from rising gold prices on the gold it holds over that period.

tux3•59m ago
The source is a press conference where they state the total amount and total value of gold stored hasn't changed. In le figaro they report the profit is due to variation in price between the different transactions. Which seems to be a polite way to say they took exceptional risk.
wqaatwt•57m ago
They repatriated 129 tonnes in total, its was absolutely impossible to make $15B from that since that’s what 129 tonnes are worth in total more or less.
tonfa•19m ago
> In le figaro they report the profit is due to variation in price between the different transactions. Which seems to be a polite way to say they took exceptional risk.

Nah it's just regular realized gain (delta between acquisition price and selling price).

https://www.banque-france.fr/fr/actualites/resultats-2025-de...

(so it's kinda irrelevant, it's just they have to put it in their books)

wqaatwt•58m ago
Well they has 129 tonnes in US which happens to be wroth around $15B or so. Probably the author has no clue what they are talking about and grossly misinterpreted..
stackbutterflow•1h ago
It's gold only if it comes from the Dore région of France. Otherwise it's just sparkling metal.
sph•1h ago
That accent somehow migrated two characters too far.
stavros•1h ago
Nah that's how it's spelled in French.
sph•53m ago
True, but ‘Doré’ means golden, and would make for a better joke.
pyrale•35m ago
On the other hand, Dore is an actual toponym.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monts_Dore

rkomorn•52m ago
The French part in that sentence should be the name of the region (eg Doré(e) ), not "région", and if you wanted to use the French spelling of "région", you'd have to say "région Dore".

Using the French spelling of région but the wrong word order doesn't make sense.

stavros•51m ago
Ahh I see, thanks.
jjgreen•26m ago
True connoisseurs prefer the metal from Lingots.
chii•1h ago
Gold in hand is worth $15B in the bush?
wodenokoto•1h ago
My guess is they buy before selling. An increasing market with a large buy might increase enough to allow for a profitable sell.

On top of this, this is physical gold, so location of the gold must play into it as well.

aucisson_masque•1h ago
Not done for political reasons.
oyebenny•1h ago
What makes you say that?
Ecco•1h ago
Reading the article is what made him say that.
berkes•1h ago
> BdF Governor Francois Villeroy de Galhau said the decision to keep the new bars in Paris is “not politically motivated,” as the higher-standard gold bars it bought were traded on a European market.
wqaatwt•1h ago
Well they are probably just being diplomatic, there is no point in accidentally triggering the ape.
avadodin•20m ago
"We do not do this as a political statement —we simply want our gold ingots to exist next week."

Still, a win does signal a dumb process behind the trade as the smart move would be to hedge with future options and/or futures.

But then again, maybe they did hedge the trade and it's just not the right time or place to report it.

tonfa•16m ago
To be fair, it's an ongoing process started in 2005 and which should finish in 2028. I doubt there was much political (tho the whole tariffs stuff probably made their job/decision easier when the gold price started diverging between NY and European markets). At this point it was cheaper than flying the gold to CH for recasting.

(1784 tons moved to standardized holding over the years, 134 tons are now left to convert -- all stored in Paris)

roenxi•1h ago
Are you suggesting they did this for technical or economic reasons? Like what? Is the US charging an unreasonable storage fee?

I'd read the article, but the site seems to be down.

wqaatwt•1h ago
Unless one reads between the lines.
NoLinkToMe•58m ago
And winning athletes and sports teams don't go to the white house due to 'scheduling conflicts'. And Amazon paid $75m for a Melania documentary because they saw real profit and need there. And Qatar bought Trump an airplane because it was important for his work. And everyone nominates him for a nobel prize because he ends wars and doesn't get into wars (we're just in a special military operation atm).
seydor•36m ago
Of course not . absolutely definitely nothing to do with the mad king (who is great and handsome)
mort96•11m ago
Would it count as a "political reason" if their risk management calculations crossed a threshold where it's worth it to move the gold back? I imagine such calculations are done and revised all the time and account for the perceived stability and reliability of a country.
fenykep•1h ago
Site doesn't load for me. https://archive.is/ePH8u
rstarast•1h ago
This seems to be the source article (Reuters, March 24): https://www.reuters.com/business/french-central-bank-books-1...
cladopa•1h ago
This is not gain at all. At least in theory: You own some tons of gold at the start of the process, you have the same tons of gold at the end of the process.

The only real gain is that you have gold in the US custody and the US can be tempted to just use it without telling you anything.

In other words, you had "paper gold" or "virtual gold" that the US can confiscate anytime, for example after invading Greenland, blackmailing France to do nothing.

You gain custody of what is yours.

0dayman•55m ago
which can be the difference between losing that entire amount or gaining it, and in this situation with this America, this is a big win if they manage to get it back in fact, if it hasn't been stolen or sold already
tgsovlerkhgsel•45m ago
From the full press release:

"In 2025 and at the start of 2026, while the volume of gold reserves remained unchanged, the Banque de France had to align a residual portion (5%) with technical guidelines, resulting in a significant realised currency gain. This exceptional foreign exchange income totalled EUR 11 billion for 2025."

-- the keyword here likely being "realized"

bamboozled•45m ago
It's more of a loss for the USA, which IMO is the unwritten point of the article.

France upgraded their gold bars to a new standard and as they were doing that, gold has appreciated massively in price, so France has the new shiny easier to trade bars, and the USA has the old harder to trade bars.

tux3•17m ago
They can be melted and brought to the modern standard, which is what they did with the rest of their holdings on the old continent. They sold these only because it was cheaper than transporting it.
coldtea•41m ago
As @somenameforme wrote:

[] they sold their 'non-standard' (seems to be bars below the modern purity standards) US reserves, and replaced them with new reserves purchased elsewhere which are now stored in France. As the price of gold continued to rise as they did this, they ended up making a bunch of dinero while also centralizing their reserves.

sounds like a gain to me.

mort96•16m ago
A gain of $15b? That's roughly the value of 100 metric tons of gold, remarkably close to the 129 tons that the article says was moved... did they double the value of their gold?
michaelt•10m ago
Assets like this are one of the complexities in calculating national import and export figures.

For example, imagine there's some German-owned gold in a UK bank vault, the owners sell it to a UK broker who sells it to a Chinese investor? The physical bars don't move, but on paper it's been imported to the UK then exported.

But a lot of people looking at export figures are expecting to learn things about the manufacturing industry, and picturing exports as washing machines, cars and computer chips - which imply lots of well paid jobs for skilled labour. So the UK reports import/export figures with 'non-monetary gold' listed separately.

(The fact flows of gold are highly volatile allows a classic bit of political sleight-of-hand - if you include gold, UK exports are both up and down since Brexit, depending on the pair of dates you choose)

renewiltord•52m ago
I did this once. I bought Bitcoin on an exchange for $65k then I transferred it to my own wallet for a gain of $65k then I sold that for $65k for a total of $130k. Then I used the $130k on the exchange to buy Bitcoin again. Before I knew it, I was a trillionaire. Unfortunately the last time I tried to do it I bought my coins on FTX.

When you buy it make sure you use a French account though. If you use any other account then transferring the Bitcoin will just get you a Bitcoin not both the Bitcoin and the money. It’s European mathematics.

tonfa•39m ago
On that topic, video about the underground vault: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txyKenOq5Pw
dbdr•6m ago
Thanks for sharing this little hidden gem!
wolvoleo•36m ago
We in Holland should do the same but our government (especially the right wing VVD) adores the US so they never bothered :(
codethief•32m ago
Is anyone here actually reading the article? Yes, they really made a gain of $15B:

> But instead of refining and transporting the gold, it opted to sell the bars and purchase new bullion in Europe. […] Due to rising gold prices, the move helped the bank to generate a capital gain of 13 billion euros ($15 billion),

mort96•21m ago
This doesn't make sense. If they first sold the bars held in the US, then the gold prices rose, then they bought gold in Europe, how the hell did that amount to a capital gain of $15b? How exactly do prices rising over the course of the process lead to these $15b?
huhtenberg•12m ago
Gold is down 10+% since its recent peak. They likely sold then and repurchased later.
mort96•9m ago
Then they made money thanks to gold prices fluctuating, not thanks to gold prices rising?

And how does a 10% market shift lead to gaining $15b, roughly the value of 100 tons of gold, from the sale and re-purchase of 129 tons of gold?

This math ain't mathing.

samus•9m ago
[delayed]
adastra22•20m ago
Did they buy before selling? Otherwise that doesn’t make sense.
lljk_kennedy•9m ago
Sell at high, buy at low?
samus•8m ago
[delayed]
KingOfCoders•28m ago
Germany also needs to pull all gold. We have 1236t there.
zelphirkalt•14m ago
Would be good to not depend on the US that much any longer, since they have proven to be such an unreliable "partner". Even in a non-Trump future one cannot rely upon some future election not resulting in some similar disaster. Better to pull out, before some hothead gets weird ideas about that gold.
vasco•9m ago
Maybe the fact that US soldiers and military bases exist inside Germany's borders is slightly more important than where the gold is. First regain your sovereignty, I'd say.
zelphirkalt•5m ago
I am guessing that these bases are one of the last things to go. Would be a major diplomatic incident. But then again Trump creates those for breakfast, so who knows when we finally have had enough.
fasdfplasjk5425•26m ago
Looks like we're at the beginning of

FBRICS