Amd versions can not suspend to RAM, I heard.

Sure, but if you factor in the possibility of never having to do a full system upgrade again, and instead just upgrading individual parts (including the chassis) as needed, the long term cost of ownership would be way lower if you commit to framework

At this point RAM prices dwarf everything else in a system, at least for me

Apples to oranges. NO other OEM makes a modular laptop yet.

I mean yeah they’re right but it’s not like the difference is particularly staggering. And unfortunately having control and quality runs a premium these days.

Plus depending on what you’re upgrading it could very well save you money in the long run, as the parts you can replace or upgrade yourself in an MBpro are few and far between. The few things you can replace often cost an arm and a leg and require way more technical expertise than a framework demands.

Also, Mac lock in. Not something to lightly ignore. Framework will run basically anything except MacOS.

I mean, yeah. There's a reason other companies don't focus on modularity or repairability. Its not free.

We're not the target audience for this thing, but I'm at least happy there's a way people can put their money where their mouth is.

Comparing Apples to Oranges.

Apple only makes disposable devices now. They're a megacorp can negotiate massive discounts at every stage of the supply chain.

I've helped several people in the last few years set up new Macs, replacing ones that were only 1-2 years old, because they ran out of storage.

Additionally, the comparison doesn't even hold true when you need more than the base configs from Apple, given their ridiculous upgrade pricing. I'm writing this on a $6,000USD M3 MBP with 128gb/4tb. It would have been substantially cheaper to build out on a Framework.

Even putting aside the whole repairability thing, with the Mac you’re stuck with Apple Silicon. Apple’s processors are mostly awesome, of course, but using one does mean you’re stuck with macOS—Asahi Linux seems to be a ways away from M5 support.

Cost of the Macbook Pro 14 in 2031: another £1999

Cost of the Framework 13 upgrade kit in 2031: £499

The point of the upgradability and openness of the design is that you only have to pay that cost once, instead of every time you buy a laptop. How much will it cost to upgrade a MacBook's RAM if you decide you need more after a year or two? £2099?

> the whole thing is overpriced

Economy of scale... they cannot make (or sell) anywhere near as many as Apple does, so of course it's going to be more expensive. Just like that "Made in USA" grill brush that costs 75 dollars (but guess where the machines that make it come from).

Because there’s a hardware shortage going on. I can see why somebody who needs a new machine commits early.

If it's what I'm thinking about, they showed it in one of their videos where they compare the old 13 to the Pro. It looked like a latch mechanism that you can operate with one hand but still keeps it secure in place.

Edit: this should be what you want to know - https://youtu.be/GnOpIQJnYWU?t=536

I've had the framework 13 since batch 5 of their original first model and that has never happened to me once. Are you sure you're pushing the expansion cards _all the way_ in? They should click and the little button between the cards should pop up slightly more when the cards are fully inserted. It is certainly possible to have the cards visually look inserted and work normally but haven't actually been pushed in far enough to click/lock into place.

FWIW I've also replaced my chassis once, and never had this issue with either chassis.

I have an early 13 and find the expansion cards take a lot of effort to remove, so maybe it’s a batch thing. Seems like the new 13 redesigned it a bit anyway. I’ll probably get the new bottom so I can use the new battery.

> Current F13 expansion cards will pull out sometimes when you remove a USB cable

That feels like a defect in your particular machine, not a design flaw. With my laptop, the cards are actually incredibly difficult to remove most of the time. I can't imagine one of them coming loose by accident.

There are already 3rd party boards with ARM chips

You’re confusing the look of the device with the feel of the OS.

I suspect a large number of computers would be thinkpad, primarily due to its repairability, which is the biggest selling point of framework by far. So, together, you cover a pretty significant chunk of the market

Because you’re in the minority. The vast majority of the population views the build quality and materials of the macbook pro to be the standard by which all others are measured.

The only thing that’s surprising is that you see 30-40% of the laptops at a Linux conference are macbooks given how poor to non-existent the Linux support is for the newer Apple silicon models.

You wouldn't understand unless you've used one for a few months. There is alot to like and the dream is to have any "normal" laptop like it

> Why are they so so dedicated to being as much as a look and feel clone as Mac as possible?

Because Mac hardware is the best in the market. I’m not really sure how you’d argue otherwise. Build quality, components etc are the best, it makes sense you’d want to match that.

A lot of Linux folks would love to own a MacBook that runs Linux. But such a thing doesn’t exist (at least at a first party support level). Not wanting one because it does look like a MacBook doesn’t make a ton of sense.

Most Linux users don't use Macs because running Linux on a Mac is difficult.

But I think many people would like to run Linux on Apple hardware. That's what I do and I haven't found better hardware yet. You just have to be careful in choosing something that's well supported.

If I had to change laptops (I didn't choose mine and I'm just lucky that M1 Macs are well supported by Asahi) I would definitely take a Framework and hope that it's sufficiently Apple-like hardware wise.

Because realistically in the laptop computer space Apple is obliterating everything else right now.

You can usually name a laptop that has some feature better than a macbook, but the overall package is so strong in so many avenues. Sound quality, screen quality (even without leaning on fancy new tech like OLED), trackpad quality.

Would you rather they target the Dell Latitude (Coil Whine, crazy power-off issues caused by C-States, poor thermals) or Thinkpad T-series (USB-C port stops charging and requires motherboard replacement, thermal issues, weak speakers, also coil whine, unstable radio) or HP’s elitebook (randomly doesn’t wake from suspend, hinge cracking and keycaps falling off even with light wear).

The other SKU’s are a race to the bottom, despite being more expensive for the base-system (which I find ironic).

It’s a poor north star to take a degrading product line as inspiration.