Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

https://arkadiyt.com/2026/05/13/removing-the-modem-and-gps-from-my-rav4/

200•arkadiyt•2h ago

Comments

p00ter•2h ago

There's going to be a lot of this going on in the future. RabbitLabs CAN Commander go BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

threecheese•1h ago

I though this was just a crazy commenter, but here:

https://rabbit-labs.com/product/cancommander/

Crazy commenter, tell us a little about this. Can I use it on any Can bus?

fullstop•42m ago

From what I understand the CAN traffic on my vehicle is encrypted. Clearly this does not apply to all of the traffic, as I can fetch some OBD2 data with a generic dongle.

stefan_•5m ago

The data on the OBD2 port is legally mandated, so can't be encrypted. But besides encryption CAN buses in a car are also separated, the bus on the OBD2 plug often can't even talk to the most interesting components.

disastronaut•9m ago

CAN is a protocol, but the messages on the bus are implementation specific. Yes, you can use it on any CAN bus, but there's no guarantee that you will be able to decode the traffic. Some modern CAN networks are encrypted, too, because it's trivial to view the traffic. https://kentindell.github.io/2021/01/02/can2-wireshark/ has a great guide on decoding traffic with sigrok.

java-man•1h ago

Maybe two metal pins through the GPS and the cellular antenna coaxial cables would do the trick?

foobarian•1h ago

You would be surprised how leaky RF can be and how hard to completely suppress. There is a reason things like anechoic chambers and test labs are very expensive.

java-man•1h ago

Leaky - possibly, but we are dealing with the real world where you have plenty of background noise. The cell tower will likely fail to receive the signal.

amelius•45m ago

Just hold it wrong. That should do the trick.

kevin_thibedeau•1h ago

You just need to cap the connectors with a terminator.

java-man•1h ago

It might easier to find the cable than disassemble the car to get to the terminals.

vablings•46m ago

Usually, the whole antenna is behind the rear-view mirror between the glass and mirror. Often glued together

rasz•35m ago

In case of Subaru turning off 2G made their modems keep trying to reconnect 24/7 draining and killing battery. Subaru refused replacing batteries killed by defective car.

venussnatch•1h ago

What is the suspected method of Bluetooth communication?

Afaik phones do not share their internet blindly to Bluetooth devices.

max8539•1h ago

Also thought about it. It’s possible, but requires enabling hotspot on the phone. Without it, it will not share internet via BT.

fragmede•1h ago

It would also require that my phone not show my car using the hotspot, when it does show my laptop, and also for my cellphone plan to not show that usage (I have limited hotspot data), which is theoretically possible, but now we're talking three companies having to collude in a totally undetectable fashion, which seems a little far fetched.

buran77•1h ago

The author probably means CarPlay and Android Auto. In wireless mode they share the phone's internet connection. The adapter linked in the article is a CarPlay adapter, not plain BT.

max8539•30m ago

Seems like this way of using CarPlay isn’t documented. Bluetooth is used for discovery and WiFi/USB for CarPlay communication but not for providing car and internet access. Using users’ phone data without notice could be noticeable by users as well…

jeroenhd•1h ago

Bluetooth PAN seems to work pretty seamlessly once you've paired your phone and set it up. It's possible some kind of "seamless hotspot" functionality is remotely activating PAN on a paired device.

nurple•1h ago

> Even after the modem is removed, if you connect your phone to the car via Bluetooth then the car will use your phone as an internet connection and send all the same telemetry data back to Toyota. However, if you use a wired USB connection then it does not do that (see the discussion here and elsewhere), so I exclusively use CarPlay via USB.

The problem with this is that both carplay and android auto capture their own vehicle telemetry. So even though the car is not able to use your phone as a general data pipe, Google and Apple still get access to this data when you're connected.

They are both very cagey with how they talk about this (or don't).

zackify•1h ago

I use android auto through grapheneos thankfully! this is crazy!

andrepd•1h ago

Can you clarify? Does it feed it bullshit data? Because android auto expects car telemetry data which it streams to Google's servers. Which is a big no-no for me for obvious reasons.

piaste•44m ago

It doesn't stop Android Auto from doing whatever with the car data, but it's sandboxed to have no more default privileges than a regular app, so it can be denied access to your phone's data by default (apps, contacts, etc.). Wireless AA will only work if you grant it extra privileges; wired AA does not need them.

You can also "firewall" AA via something like TrackerControl, this would let you block connections to eg. Google Analytics servers without denying network access altogether (which would likely cause AA to stop working). I've only used AA with short-term rentals so I didn't spend too much time exploring these options.

andrepd•24m ago

Fair enough. Streaming my location and an OBD dump to Google whenever I'm driving is a non-starter for me, so I'll stick with the aux cord!

b00ty4breakfast•1h ago

this sounds like donning a TNT vest to diffuse a bomb

downrightmike•1h ago

They are cagey because they get nearly $100k upfront with crazy interest rates, and then they make a ton of money through their spyware.

pfortuny•1h ago

Honest question: what do you mean?

downrightmike•1h ago

You pay inflated prices for the car and then they still steal and sell your data. This isn't hard to understand, same thing smart TV mfg do.

epicide•1h ago

I think you mean "subsidized" instead of "inflated".

Rooster61•1h ago

No, they meant inflated. Cars are quite expensive right now, and dealers are notorious for raking in cash through financing. If they were subsidized, prices would be lower to increase user base, as in the aforementioned dynamic present in the current smart TV market.

I think the inital point was that car manufacturers/dealers are double dipping through initial cost/interest AND data harvesting.

alext5•1h ago

Both an high end tv or a car are expensive items where the manufacturer shouldn’t be making additional income on your personal data.

A free 55 inch tv supported by ads would be subsidized. A big ticket item price likely does not change even if it intrudes on your privacy and the manufacturer makes additional income on your data. In that sense it’s not subsidized it’s just greedy business practices.

Jblx2•32m ago

$100k is in Canadian dollars? I just added almost every accessory/package and option to the the 2026 GR Sport Plug-in Hybrid RAV4, and it came out to $55,821. If there were options that were nearly identical, I only added the most expensive one. So I only added one hammock ($340) and one of the Pelican Dayventure Backpack Cooler ($301). This includes the dog first-aid kit, and the human first-aid kit. Maybe all the options will come through this link:

https://www.toyota.com/configurator/build/step/summary/year/...

...maybe there is a lot of dealer markup in your area?

arkadiyt•1h ago

In a perfect world they wouldn't collect it either, but I'd rather Apple have it than the car manufacturer (or rather, only Apple vs both Apple and the car manufacturer)

drnick1•59m ago

You need GrapheneOS to sever the link to Google. You can also deny specify apps and services Internet access.

everdrive•57m ago

What about if it's just paired as an audio device rather than through an app?

embedding-shape•41m ago

Don't get CarPlay/Android Auto that way though, so no navigation/maps for example.

embedding-shape•41m ago

And once you've gotten rid of Google and Apple, your telecom company tracks you, your CC payments help track you and even cameras in public do.

It's hard to not want to throw your hands in the air screaming "whatever" when almost everything you use in public is somehow used to track you either as you move around, or in the future.

dualvariable•18m ago

This is one of those things that can't ever be solved with individual solutions but needs to be solved through legislation and standards, and ideally a fundamental right to privacy (and a fundamental redefinition of what privacy means when it comes to corporate surveillance of individuals).

gruez•39m ago

>if you connect your phone to the car via Bluetooth then the car will use your phone as an internet connection and send all the same telemetry data back to Toyota

Source? Can bluetooth devices do that without the user's knowledge?

MRPockets•30m ago

I assume that the original article statement is referring to connecting to CarPlay/Android Auto wirelessly, not simply connecting via Bluetooth for a speaker-type setup. But I do not know that this is the case. Certainly, I would assume all privacy bets are off if you connect CarPlay/Android Auto in any manner.

Angostura•19m ago

Standard Carplay is essentially an additional screen for your phone - your existiing privacy settings carry across. What's your concern?

vk6flab•4m ago

Unfortunately that's not quite true, since the "app screen" on the media display during Android Auto use has an additional "Toyota" icon that AFAIK isn't coming from my phone.

What's more concerning is that it's entirely unclear exactly what information is shared over the Android Auto link, in my case, over Bluetooth.

jklinger410•15m ago

> then the car will use your phone as an internet connection and send all the same telemetry data back to Toyota

How?

colordrops•12m ago

They are probably confusing google auto with bluetooth.

dingdingdang•1h ago

Excellent practical guide and pictures, if OP is around on this thread: well done! Your future self is going to appreciative too when this needs repeating at some point!

aframemodular•1h ago

Great guide! After getting to the end, I had no idea what AirPlay was so I looked it up... bro, all this effort to avoid telemetry and you are using an iPhone XD

summermusic•1h ago

I dread the day I will have to start doing this when the 2015 vehicle I have finally goes

Barbing•1h ago

> Unfortunately I think it’s only a matter of time before the modem and GPS become more deeply integrated into the car (making this blog post infeasible), or cars have more drastic failure modes when the modem/GPS is removed, or anti-right-to-repair laws get passed to further clamp down on this behavior.

Guaranteed

everdrive•59m ago

The 2024 Ford Maverick has a single fuse for the telematics unit that you can remove without throwing a code or an error. No idea if this remained true after the 2025-2026 refresh, but worth knowing.

https://www.mavericktruckclub.com/forum/threads/telematics-f...

drnick1•55m ago

Older Toyotas also had a DCM fuse, and this was the easiest way to get rid of telemetry. I am not sure if partially disassembling the dash and physically removing the DCM is now necessary.

arkadiyt•50m ago

There's still a fuse for the DCM even in this car but:

- It has an internal battery and will keep running for quite a while after pulling the fuse. This is a safety feature in case you get in a crash that disconnects the 12V battery

- It will break your in-car microphone as discussed. Repairing that requires opening up the dash

- That won't do anything for disconnecting the GPS antenna

xattt•41m ago

Kias have a “Massachusetts mode” flag hidden behind a service menu (that needs a dealer code) that disables telematics at the owner’s request. However, the service menu pin also has timeout protection that will inject a waiting period between retries so there is no guessing.

I don’t think there’s convincing my dealer to get into the service menu and disabling it.

I would presume that other manufacturers might have this as well.

ok_dad•15m ago

Give one of the mechanics $500 and I bet they’ll accidentally drop the password on the floor of the car as they get out after moving it inside to change the oil.

TheChaplain•56m ago

If you live in the EU and bought the car there, the GDPR still applies, even if data is sent to Toyota in Japan.

You have the full right to view and ask for deletion.

wiml•28m ago

You'd think people would be doing that already. Has anyone posted details?

Can you skirt the GDPR by making it hard to discover who you need to ask?

bee_rider•56m ago

Who’s responsible for presenting the privacy policy to passengers of a car, anyway?

amelius•46m ago

Modern cars are like Smart TVs.

IdiotSavage•42m ago

Soon: ads on your HUD while you wait in traffic.

placatedmayhem•30m ago

This has already happened: https://www.motorbiscuit.com/jeep-dodge-owners-mad-infotainm...

at-fates-hands•16m ago

Last year we got a rental car when we were in Florida. When we first left the airport, we were using the navigation app that was in the car. First red light? Navigation app suddenly goes black and a commercial starts playing. My wife and I both look at each other like, "WTF is going on?!?" Light turns green commercial clips out and the navigation app starts working again. We waited to see if it happened at the next light. Sure enough, the last commercial finished and another started as the light turned green.

Tuned it off and used our phones from there to the hotel. That was the last time we used a rental cars navigation.

So yeah, its already happening.

ezfe•42m ago

> Even after the modem is removed, if you connect your phone to the car via Bluetooth then the car will use your phone as an internet connection and send all the same telemetry data back to Toyota

What is the basis for this claim? I've never heard of this capability.

chzblck•40m ago

I cannot imagine the paranoia that it would take for me to go through this process.

EvanAnderson•14m ago

I cannot imagine the lack of concern about my privacy that it would take to make me daily-drive a car that hadn't been put through this process.

(I dread the day my 2007 Civic is no longer usable.)

b112•12m ago

Not to mention, people kept saying "Who cares, you're being silly" then multiple companies were caught selling into to insurance companies.

ezfe•40m ago

Just a note about Toyota specifically - There are many blog posts and articles out there alleging that Toyota shares your data with insurance companies.

As I own two Toyota's I have read through these carefully and consistently the theme is that the owner was opted into this program without knowing it (likely by the sales person clicking through setup steps to enable every feature). If you are not opted in, I have seen no evidence they share driving data.

When I set up my Toyotas, the app clearly walks through the programs they have and you must click either "yes/opt in" or "no/opt out" for each program. It is not opted in by default.

swader999•28m ago

If you get into enough trouble they'll get all your phone data and cell tower pings or your passenger's.

chromadon•27m ago

I wonder if insurance would refuse to pay out in the event of an accident due to this modification?

lapetitejort•24m ago

If you are wary of all the smart features in your next car purchase, consider buying a bicycle. We do not have to entertain the creeping invasion of our privacy

Animats•19m ago

How good a position can you get from GPS today in receive only mode?

You can download and store Open Street Map for individual states. Map data doesn't have to come in over the air. That's not the problem. It's enhancing GPS with cell phone tower data that's the problem. That requires a cell connection.

stackghost•16m ago

>That requires a cell connection.

Technically it only requires an antenna that can listen on the LTE band (or even GSM). Trilaterating based on cell towers with a hackRF or other SDR is a fun exercise.

fnord77•19m ago

Couldn't you just ground or resistor out the car's cellular antenna so it can't transmit data?

jmward01•15m ago

We need more posts like this. I'd love a follow-up where instead of removing it injects fake data to the system. I am tired of passively being digitally assaulted. If they are going to do this to me without my knowing consent I want to fight back.

analogpixel•8m ago

I'm always surprised there aren't more projects that just pump random data back into all of these system. I think awhile back there was a plugin that would click on every advertisement it saw over and over, but got shutdown for some reason. But how hard is it to just have everyone inject nonstop data to all of these tracking systems? if nothing else a drive somewhere is going to eventually fill up.

rllearneratwork•5m ago

this is great idea! Hackers of Hacker News let's have more projects to overwhelm bad actors with bad data. Perhaps using OSS LLMs for that.

matheusmoreira•5m ago

Yeah, like AdNauseam. We're way too polite when it comes to these exploitative corporations. Start poisoning their data sets. Start costing them as much money as humanly possible. Drive their returns on investments as close to zero as possible, ideally well into the negatives.

a-dub•15m ago

> Strong Federal privacy laws would make posts like this unnecessary, that’s the world I’d rather live in.

yes. there ought to be a right to reasonable expectation of behavioral privacy where if it's not obvious and intrinsic to function that behavior is being recorded then it must be consented with functional opt-out.

gps tracking to the manufacturer of a car seems egregious. i wonder if it runs afoul of anti-stalking laws.

mono442•7m ago

Modern cars are horrible. I recently discovered that all new cars sold in the EU constantly beep at you for supposedly speeding, even though the system doesn’t work well, and it has to be turned off every time you start the car.

w10-1•5m ago

I had no idea that car companies were selling data.

I tried searching, but there seems to be no clean list of surveillance capabilities by car make/model/year, or of automotive regulations or practices on point.

Assuming consent is normally required, is there any evidence for the ability to enable such tracking notwithstanding lack of consent for law enforcement?

God Damn AI is making me dumb

Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

MIT: 20% drop in incoming graduate students

RTX 5090 and M4 MacBook Air: Can It Game?

New Nginx Exploit

First public macOS kernel memory corruption exploit on Apple M5

HDD Firmware Hacking

Computer Hobby Movement in Canada

Understanding the Linux Kernel: The Linux Kernel Startup

Terranox AI (YC W26) Is Hiring a Founding AI/ML Engineer and Summer AI/ML Intern

Fossils show millipede and centipede ancestors evolved legs underwater

The Power of a Free Popsicle (2018)

You Don't Align an AI, You Align with It

On The Conflation of Money and Things

What's in a GGUF, besides the weights – and what's still missing?

Claude AI recovers an 11 yrs old BTC wallet holding 400k USD

Claude for Small Business

EditLens: Quantifying the extent of AI editing in text (2025)

60fps Video on a CGA? – The GlyphBlaster

Show HN: Running the second public ODoH relay

Rewrite Bun in Rust has been merged

Myths about /dev/urandom (2014)

Grok Build

The Tree House: A voyage to the source of a backyard dream

Leaving the Physical World

Sam Altman's Business Dealings Under GOP Scrutiny Ahead of OpenAI's IPO

Anthropic forms $200M partnership with the Gates Foundation

USDA Projects Smallest US Wheat Harvest Since 1972 Due to Plains Drought

Apple-OpenAI Relationship Frays, Setting Up Possible Legal Fight

A Claude Code and Codex Skill for Deliberate Skill Development

God Damn AI is making me dumb

Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

MIT: 20% drop in incoming graduate students

RTX 5090 and M4 MacBook Air: Can It Game?

New Nginx Exploit

First public macOS kernel memory corruption exploit on Apple M5

HDD Firmware Hacking

Computer Hobby Movement in Canada

Understanding the Linux Kernel: The Linux Kernel Startup

Terranox AI (YC W26) Is Hiring a Founding AI/ML Engineer and Summer AI/ML Intern

Fossils show millipede and centipede ancestors evolved legs underwater

The Power of a Free Popsicle (2018)

You Don't Align an AI, You Align with It

On The Conflation of Money and Things

What's in a GGUF, besides the weights – and what's still missing?

Claude AI recovers an 11 yrs old BTC wallet holding 400k USD

Claude for Small Business

EditLens: Quantifying the extent of AI editing in text (2025)

60fps Video on a CGA? – The GlyphBlaster

Show HN: Running the second public ODoH relay

Rewrite Bun in Rust has been merged

Myths about /dev/urandom (2014)

Grok Build

The Tree House: A voyage to the source of a backyard dream

Leaving the Physical World

Sam Altman's Business Dealings Under GOP Scrutiny Ahead of OpenAI's IPO

Anthropic forms $200M partnership with the Gates Foundation

USDA Projects Smallest US Wheat Harvest Since 1972 Due to Plains Drought

Apple-OpenAI Relationship Frays, Setting Up Possible Legal Fight

A Claude Code and Codex Skill for Deliberate Skill Development

Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

Comments