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An OpenAI model has disproved a central conjecture in discrete geometry

https://openai.com/index/model-disproves-discrete-geometry-conjecture/
168•tedsanders•1h ago

Comments

aurareturn•44m ago
One thing seems for certain is that OpenAI models hold a distinct lead in academics over Anthropic and Google models.

For those in academics, is OpenAI the vendor of choice?

FloorEgg•36m ago
Gemini seems better trained for learning and I think Google has made a more deliberate effort to optimize for pedagoical best practices. (E.g. tutoring, formative feedback, cognitive load optimization)

As far as academic research is concerned (e.g. this threads topic), I can't say.

aurareturn•35m ago
Yes, I meant academic research.
cute_boi•24m ago
Gemini is like someone with short-term memory loss; after the first response, it forgets everything. That being said, I have checked multiple model and gemini can sometime give accurate answer.
causal•33m ago
A simpler explanation is that more people are using ChatGPT
karmasimida•27m ago
I think the mathematicians on X are all using GPT 5.5 Pro
bayindirh•25m ago
From my limited testing, Gemini can dig out hard to find information given you detail your prompt enough.

Given that Google is the "web indexing company", finding hard to find things is natural for their models, and this is the only way I need these models for.

If I can't find it for a week digging the internet, I give it a colossal prompt, and it digs out what I'm looking for.

Jcampuzano2•22m ago
OpenAI specifically targeted Academia a lot and gave out a lot of free/unlimited usage to top academics and universities/researchers.

They also offer grants you can apply for as a researcher. I'm sure other labs may have this too but I believe OpenAI was first to this.

tracerbulletx•21m ago
Hasn't AlphaFold been used to make real discoveries for a few years now?
empath75•43m ago
Important note: this was not done with a special mathematics harness or specialized workflow.
Jeff_Brown•40m ago
Can anyone find (or draw) a picture of the construction?
pradn•34m ago
They have a "before" picture but not an "after"!
ninjha•18m ago
They only proved that one exists; computing the actual construction is non-obvious (the naive way to construct it is computationally infeasible).
gibspaulding•12m ago
This only a proof that a field with more connections is possible, not what it looks like.

I’m very out of my depth, but the structure of the proof seems to follow a pattern similar to a proof by contradiction. Where you’d say for example “assume for the sake of contradiction that the previously known limit is the highest possible” then prove that if that statement is true you get some impossible result.

alansaber•39m ago
AI isn't going to supercharge science but I wouldn't be as dismissive as other posters here.
OldGreenYodaGPT•38m ago
Isn’t that a joke? It already has supercharged science
datsci_est_2015•30m ago
Where are the second order effects of this supercharging of science? Or has it not been enough time for those to propagate?
vatsachak•35m ago
I absolutely believe that AI will supercharge science.

I do not believe it will replace humans.

seydor•17m ago
replace, no. obsolete, yes
dvfjsdhgfv•5m ago
lol

(That's the first time I use that expression on HN.)

unsupp0rted•14m ago
I absolutely believe that AI will supercharge science and replace humans.

Why shouldn't it? Humans are poorly optimized for almost anything, and built on a substrate that's barely hanging together

stonogo•9m ago
Not like large language models, which only required tens of megawatts of power and use highly efficient monte carlo methods, eh
renegade-otter•29m ago
It will notice things that humans may have missed. That said - it can only work off the body of work SOMEONE did in the past.
throw-the-towel•22m ago
> it can only work off the body of work SOMEONE did in the past.

And so do humans. Gotta stand on these shoulders of giants.

bel8•18m ago
Can't the previous body of work be from AI too?
karmasimida•25m ago
To be strict, Math is not Science.

But AI is supercharging Math like there is no tomorrow.

comboy•23m ago
Not only it supercharged science it supercharges scientist. Research on any narrow topic is a different world now. Agents can read 50 papers for you and tell you what's where. This was impossible with pure text search. Looking up non-trivial stuff and having complex things explained to you is also amazing. I mean they don't even have to be complex, but can be for adjacent field where these are basics for the other field but happen to be useful in yours. The list goes on. It's a hammer you need to watch your fingers, it's not good at cutting wood, but it's definitely worth having.
tombert•12m ago
I'm not a scientist but I like to LARP as one in my free time, and I have found ChatGPT/Claude extremely useful for research, and I'd say I'd go as far as to say it supercharged it for me.

When I'm learning about a new subject, I'll ask Claude to give me five papers that are relevant to what I'm learning about. Often three of the papers are either irrelevant or kind of shit, but that leaves 2/5 of them that are actually useful. Then from those papers, I'll ask Claude to give me a "dependency graph" by recursing on the citations, and then I start bottom-up.

This was game-changing for me. Reading advanced papers can be really hard for a variety of reasons, but one big one can simply be because you don't know the terminology and vernacular that the paper writers are using. Sometimes you can reasonably infer it from context, but sometimes I infer incorrectly, or simply have to skip over a section because I don't understand it. By working from the "lowest common denominator" of papers first, it generally makes the entire process easier.

I was already doing this to some extent prior to LLMs, as in I would get to a spot I didn't really understand, jump to a relevant citation, and recurse until I got to an understanding, but that was kind of a pain in the ass, so having a nice pretty graph for me makes it considerably easier for me to read and understand more papers.

vatsachak•37m ago
As I have stated before, AI will win a fields medal before it can manage a McDonald's

A difficult part was constructing a chess board on which to play math (Lean). Now it's just pattern recognition and computation.

LLMs are just the beginning, we'll see more specialized math AI resembling StockFish soon.

soupspaces•26m ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/singularity/comments/1l0z5yk/the_mo...
Lerc•19m ago
I disagree. It will be able to perform work deserving if a fields medal before it is capable of running a McDonalds. I think it will be running a McDonalds well before either of those things happen, and a fields medal long after both have happened.
edbaskerville•4m ago
I just visited a McDonald's for the first time in a while. The self-order kiosk UI is quite bad. I think this is evidence in favor of the idea that an incompetent AI will soon be incompetently running a McDonald's.
sigmoid10•19m ago
Managing a McDonalds is a question of integration and modalities at this point. I don't think anyone still doubts that these models lack the reasoning capability or world knowledge needed for the job. So it's less of a fundamental technical problem and more of a process engineering issue.
throw-the-towel•18m ago
The capability they lack is being able to be sued.
pear01•10m ago
Police officers are human. In the United States in the vast majority of cases you can't sue the police, only the community responsible for them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualified_immunity

Assuming you can still sue McDonalds I am not sure if this is a problem in the robotic llm case. I'm also trying to imagine a case where you would want to sue the llm and not the company. Given robots/llm don't have free will I'm not sure the problem with qualified immunity making police unaccountable applies.

There already exist a lot of similar conventions in corporate law. Generally, a main advantage of incorporation is protecting the people making the decisions from personal lawsuits.

forinti•17m ago
AI is already too old for that.
Terr_•15m ago
> manage a McDonald's

Dystopia vibes from the fictional "Manna" people-management system. [0]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manna_(novel)

w29UiIm2Xz•13m ago
Enough body cameras and audio recordings of each job function should be enough the build the world model for operating a fast food franchise. Training on academic publications wouldn't yield the same effect.
evenhash•9m ago
The proof is not written in Lean, though. It’s written in English and requires validation by human experts to confirm that it’s not gibberish.
yusufozkan•36m ago
"The proof came from a general-purpose reasoning model, not a system built specifically to solve math problems or this problem in particular, and represents an important milestone for the math and AI communities."
Kwantuum•28m ago
I trust openAI's marketing team 100%
krackers•16m ago
It seems plausible given that people have been using off the shelf 5.5 xhigh to decent success with some erdos problems. There is likely still some scaffolding around it though (like parallel sampling or separate verifier step) since it's not clear if you can just "one shot" problems like this.
seydor•15m ago
all reasoning is .. well problem reasoning. restricting black-box AIs to specific human-defined domains because we believe that's better is such a human-ist thing to do.
endymi0n•34m ago
To paraphrase Gwynne Shotwell: “Not too bad for just a large Markov chain, eh?”
phkahler•33m ago
I would have thought a triangular grid works better than a grid of squares. You get ~3n links vs ~2n for the square grid. Curious what the AI came up with.
comboy•30m ago
Yes, not providing visualization of the solution seems criminal.
dadrian•32m ago
While the result is impressive, this blog post is extremely disappointing.

- It does not show an example of the new best solution, nor explain why they couldn't show an example (e.g. if the proof was not constructive)

- It does not even explain the previous best solution. The diagram of the rescaled unit grid doesn't indicate what the "points" are beyond the normal non-scaled unit grid. I have no idea what to take away from it.

- It's description of the new proof just cites some terms of art with no effort made to actually explain the result.

If this post were not on the OpenAI blog, I would assume it was slop. I understand advanced pure mathematics is complicated, but it is entirely possible to explain complicated topics to non-experts.

Al-Khwarizmi•17m ago
Indeed, it's a pity. While many advanced math problems are highly abstract or convoluted to explain to a layman audience, this one in particular is about points in a 2D plane and distances. A drawing would have been nice.
changoplatanero•9m ago
apparently the proof is not constructive in the sense of not giving an easy to compute recipe for generating a set of points that you can plot on a 2d plane
solomatov•31m ago
How central is it in the discrete geometry? Could anyone with the knowledge in the field reply?
energy123•30m ago
There's pages of comments from like 8 mathematicians in the attached pdf
sigmar•12m ago
The blog post links a pdf that OpenAI put together of nine mathematicians that commented on the proof. Each is quite brief and written in accessible terms (or more accessible terms, at least). https://cdn.openai.com/pdf/74c24085-19b0-4534-9c90-465b8e29a...
reactordev•30m ago
I dunno, I'm skeptical without proof. I've had the MAX+ plan for a while and I'm sorry, the quality between GPT vs Claude is night and day difference. Claude understands. GPT stumbles over every request I give it.
nathan_compton•9m ago
Weird thing to say about a report which literally has the attached mathematical proof.
0x5FC3•27m ago
Is there a reason why we only hear of Erdos problems being solved? I would imagine there are a myriad of other unsolved problems in math, but every single ChatGPT "breakthrough in math" I come across on r/singularity and r/accelerate are Erdos problems.
tonfa•25m ago
Afaik this is because there is a community and database around them.
0x5FC3•21m ago
Interesting. OpenAI could also be trying to solve other problems, but Erdos problems maybe falling first?
throw-the-towel•19m ago
They're just famous because Erdos was a great mathematician, kinda like the Hilbert problems a century earlier.
empath75•17m ago
It's a large set of problems that are both interesting and difficult, but not seen as foundational enough or important enough that they have already had sustained attention on them by mathematicians for decades or centuries, and so they might actually be solvable by an LLM.
1qaboutecs•9m ago
Also fewer prerequisites to understand the statement than the average research problem.
bananaflag•15m ago
Erdos problems are easier to state, thus they make a great benchmark for the first year of AI mathematics.
famouswaffles•14m ago
It's not just Erdos problems - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48213189
bradleykingz•25m ago
ok. so what are the implications of for math
Fraterkes•24m ago
I guess if this stuff is going to make my employment more precarious, it’d be nice if it also makes some scientific breakthroughs. We’ll see
ausbah•19m ago
shame we won’t see any of these medical breakthroughs when we all lose our jobs and thus our healthcare
karmasimida•13m ago
There is a world that AI makes medical breakthroughs, but there is 0 guarantee it is going to be affordable
zozbot234•24m ago
The summarized chain of thought for this task (linked in the blogpost) is 125 pages. That's an insane scale of reasoning, quite akin to what Anthropic has been teasing with Mythos.
m-hodges•24m ago
To the “LLMs just interpolate their training data” crowd:

Ayer, and in a different way early Wittgenstein, held that mathematical truths don’t report new facts about the world. Proofs unfold what is already implicit in axioms, definitions, symbols, and rules.

I think that idea is deeply fascinating, AND have no problem that we still credit mathematicians with discoveries.

So either “recombining existing material” isn’t disqualifying, or a lot of Fields Medals need to be returned.

throw-the-towel•17m ago
See the longstanding debate on whether new math is "invented" or "discovered". Most mathematicians I knew thought it's discovered.
atmosx•8m ago
...long standing indeed. It can be traced back to Plato's works.
skybrian•5m ago
Any design already exists as a possibility, so it could be said to be both invented and discovered, depending on how you look at it.
dvt•16m ago
> I think that idea is deeply fascinating, AND have no problem that we still credit mathematicians with discoveries.

Most discoveries are indeed implied from axioms, but every now and then, new mathematics is (for lack of a better word) "created"—and you have people like Descartes, Newton, Leibnitz, Gauss, Euler, Ramanujan, Galois, etc. that treat math more like art than a science.

For example, many belive that to sovle the Riemann Hypothesis, we likely need some new kind of math. Imo, it's unlikely that an LLM will somehow invent it.

taimurshasan•18m ago
I wonder how much this cost vs a Math Professor or a team of Math Professors.
forgot_old_user•11m ago
it will only get cheaper in the long run
seydor•18m ago
can the AI please tell us what to do now that all knowledge work will become unemployment?
lubujackson•17m ago
For anyone using LLMs heavily for coding, this shouldn't be too surprising. It was just a matter of time.

Mathematicians make new discoveries by building and applying mathematical tools in new ways. It is tons of iterative work, following hunches and exploring connections. While true that LLMs can't truly "make discoveries" since they have no sense of what that would mean, they can Monte Carlo every mathematical tool at a narrow objective and see what sticks, then build on that or combine improvements.

Reading the article, that seems exactly how the discovery was made, an LLM used a "surprising connection" to go beyond the expected result. But the result has no meaning without the human intent behind the objective, human understanding to value the new pathway the AI used (more valuable than the result itself, by far) and the mathematical language (built by humans) to explore the concept.

pizzao•15m ago
Can someone explain to me what is their "prompting-scaffolding" to make it work ?
yusufozkan•11m ago
"This is a general-purpose LLM. It wasn’t targeted at this problem or even at mathematics. Also, it’s not a scaffold. We have not pushed this model to the limit on open problems. Our focus is to get it out quickly so that everyone can use it for themselves." - Noam Brown (OpenAI reasoning researcher) on X
famouswaffles•15m ago
Another entry in a growing list of the last couple months (interestingly mostly Open AI):

1. Erdos 1196, GPT-5.4 Pro - https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/amateur-armed-wit...

There are a couple of other Erdos wins, but this was the most impressive, prior to the thread in question. And it's completely unsupervised.

Prompt - https://chatgpt.com/share/69dd1c83-b164-8385-bf2e-8533e9baba...

2. Single-minus gluon tree amplitudes are nonzero , GPT-5.2 https://openai.com/index/new-result-theoretical-physics/

3. Frontier Math Open Problem, GPT-5.4 Pro and others - https://epoch.ai/frontiermath/open-problems/ramsey-hypergrap...

4. GPT-5.5 Pro - https://gowers.wordpress.com/2026/05/08/a-recent-experience-...

5. Claude's Cycles, Claude Opus 4.6 - https://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/papers/claude-cyc...

catigula•14m ago
Every time I interact even with OpenAI's pro model, I am forced to come to the conclusion that anything outside the domain of specific technical problems is almost completely hopeless outside of a simple enhanced search and summary engine.

For example, these machines, if scaling intellect so fiercely that they are solving bespoke mathematics problems, should be able to generate mundane insights or unique conjectures far below the level of intellect required for highly advanced mathematics - and they simply do not.

Ask a model to give you the rundown and theory on a specific pharmacological substance, for example. It will cite the textbook and meta-analyses it pulls, but be completely incapable of any bespoke thinking on the topic. A random person pursuing a bachelor's in chemistry can do this.

Anything at all outside of the absolute facts, even the faintest conjecture, feels completely outside of their reach.

brcmthrowaway•13m ago
End times are approaching
throwaway2027•11m ago
Not to dismiss the AI but the important part is that you still need someone able to recognize these solutions in the first place. A lot of things were just hidden in plain sight before AI but no one noticed or didn't have the framework either in maths or any other field they're specialized in to recognize those feats.

An OpenAI model has disproved a central conjecture in discrete geometry

https://openai.com/index/model-disproves-discrete-geometry-conjecture/
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