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U.S. to Dismantle System Tracking Atlantic Currents That Are at Risk of Collapse

https://e360.yale.edu/digest/trump-ooi-amoc
129•rguiscard•2h ago

Comments

dinosaur0001•57m ago
I hate this timeline
boringg•44m ago
For real. Cant fix stupid. Its so sad.
gxt•9m ago
[delayed]
nixass•53m ago
This is what you get when worm infested brains lead the country
nandomrumber•41m ago
Tracking the currents isn’t going to have any effect on the currents.
wahnfrieden•38m ago
Or our reaction to and preparedness for consequences of early collapse? Is course correction impossible?
andsoitis•27m ago
Most scientists don’t expect a full collapse this century, but even a significant slowdown would have major climate consequences particularly for Europe and Africa.
hackyhacky•17m ago
> Tracking the currents isn’t going to have any effect on the currents.

That's exactly why I never get tested for sexually-transmitted diseases. I mean, I'd rather not know, right??

/s

jbxntuehineoh•12m ago
That's why I drive with my eyes closed. Looking at the other cars on the road isn't going to have any effect on them.
rsoto2•6m ago
Don't worry we're not going to do anything to mitigate their collapse either. Especially not with this attitude.
BobbyTables2•12m ago
Don’t blame the worms, they’d have done better on their own…
BLKNSLVR•5m ago
Or insect infected brains (ref: Braindead TV series)
honeycrispy•50m ago
Can someone explain to me why we should continue to pay to track these currents? Genuine question.
IIAOPSW•49m ago
https://awakenedcompany.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/share...
postflopclarity•49m ago
because it is useful information for the public benefit, and not very expensive.
ufocia•39m ago
What does it mean to be not expensive? How much do all the not very expensive endeavors as up to?
AuthAuth•31m ago
a spec on the budget compared to retiree support, military and healthcare.
steve_adams_86•10m ago
Buoys with sensors, CTDs, and satellite data cost mere millions and are often supported by NGOs, indigenous communities, and even schools. They're a good deal, so to speak. We learn tremendous amounts from them, they provide learning opportunities for new scientists, they provide useful data to the transport industry, and so on. These are not things that are too expensive to maintain. These are things you decommission because you're ideologically opposed to them.
cyberax•48m ago
Don't look up!
NewJazz•40m ago
Or down. You know what, just strap those vr goggles on and stop looking at anything real at all!
stldev•42m ago
This makes sense.

Facts cease to exist because you ignore them. I think Huxley wrote that.

emodendroket•21m ago
The Power of Positive Thinking is one of the few books Donald Trump has really internalized and it shows in his approach to a lot of issues.
nielsbot•15m ago
There’s also the deluded cynics who profit from fossil fuels. Why mess up their good time??
kombine•40m ago
Let's not forget those from the big tech (you know the names) who kneeled before the king.
Ancalagon•30m ago
Why not name them?

Zuck Musk Bezos Pichai Thiel

Add more

andsoitis•23m ago
Missed Tim Cook.

Let’s map their names to the companies they run. Then reflect on whether we buy their products: Apple, Google, Amazon, Tesla/SpaceX, Meta.

DrewADesign•17m ago
Maybe we need a new FAANG acronym for the new American authoritarian-cozy rightward-veering tech industry.

Let’s see, we’ve got:

Meta

Amazon

Google

Appl… oh

EA-3167•19m ago
It's basically 'Don't Look Up' at this point, stripped of all metaphor and potential to entertain.
rsoto2•7m ago
Ellison and Clay Magouyrk and Mike Sicilia
nsainsbury•
rdedev•31m ago
I wish I could find it but Simon Clark, someone who specialized in climate science, had put out a video about how we were only recently able to model the AMOC and it's shifting patterns thanks to this measurement we were doing

Edit: probably not this one but atleast tells us why measurement is needed https://youtube.com/shorts/-X5EhUbzLTY?si=_N92PNUiTi3STat6

SilverElfin•22m ago
Terrible. The infrastructure installed in the oceans was meant to last 25 years. Instead after 10 years (or less for some), we are going to spend 1.5 years removing it all.

It’s not surprising though. Manipulating data and availability data is a regular government practice now. And it’s not just a Trump or Republican thing either. For example crime stats in blue cities often tell a misleading story, and can be influenced by rule changes on what gets counted.

emodendroket•20m ago
This doesn't really seem relevant, nor does it seem credible that only Democrats are ever tempted to use trickery to make crime rates seem better than they are.
ars•10m ago
https://abc7news.com/post/report-finds-lack-police-efficienc...

https://abc7.com/post/george-gascon-los-angeles-district-att...

SilverElfin•7m ago
It’s directly relevant. You change data collection to present a false narrative and there are many ways to do it. Shutting down the ocean data infrastructure is one example. It presents a false narrative on climate change.

The same is possible in other contexts like crime stats. You can avoid crime data collection by creating friction in reporting crimes. Or change incentives to report crime by not doing anything with reports. Or not submit data to places that collect it. And so on.

I’m not saying “only democrats” either - they aren’t - but it’s a common issue in blue cities that have obvious crime issues despite government PR about crime rates.

maebert•16m ago
> Democrats in Congress have said they will “fight” plans to dismantle the system

Putting “fight” into quotes here is terrific amount of low level shade for a scientific publication. chef’s kiss

i7l•5m ago
"Proffer a strongly worded capitulation" was probably too much for publication.
davidw•1m ago
Or scientists know how to count and see that one number is larger than another and that's an important factor in many political systems.
snaking0776•12m ago
This strikes me as one of the recent moves by our political/capital class where they think that if they just remove the information that’s inconvenient for them, people will stop caring and let them do what they want. You only need to listen to the bosses who so many of us work for to know that they think climate change is just an inconvenience in the way of progress. Only time will tell if this strategy will work or not.
dnautics•6m ago
It's arguably not particularly inconvenient for the us political class? the us has been on a tear reducing per capita ghg emissions (also trade corrected ghg emissions). this has been going on for five decades now (consistently 2.5) independent of whether administrations or congress have been red or blue

iiuc us per capita emissions are not far from 1910s levels

Eufrat•11m ago
Deutsche Physik, but with more idiots.
jimjimjim•8m ago
Just doing random evil things for no benefit? At this point it's just wanton vandalism. Punks in suits smashing windows and setting fire to cars.

Can anyone here, hand of heart, say "I agree with this decision"?

nielsbot•9m ago
honestly, who gives a shit?

the US spends AT LEAST $1T/year on military—and a lot of that is used to murder a lot of innocent people just minding their own business. Cut the military budget in half to start and then complain about reckless spending.

I’ll also add: abruptly killing programs costs more than it saves. The DOGE fiasco at USAID for example—the unruly unwinding of their finances incurred huge financial penalties. (I listened to an interview with a USAID whistleblower. It may have been interest payments?)

These ignorant and greedy billionaires destroying the people’s government based on vibes… a sick joke.

dalyons•49m ago
Can someone explain why we should pay for any basic public science or research?

Not a genuine question.

650REDHAIR•45m ago
I, for one, only care about increasing shareholder profit.
cjonas•45m ago
> The system, which began operating in 2016, was designed to run for at least 25 years

It's likely that a majority of the cost to collect the data has already been paid for...

ufocia•41m ago
Evidence?
Rebelgecko•18m ago
The system cost like $350 million to build, and $40m/year to operate+maintain. Sending ships to remove 900+ pieces of hardware under 2 miles of ocean won't be cheap either.
avmich•43m ago
So the currents will continue to be tracked, no? :) Seriously, we should find out why this system was desired and created in the first place to answer this question. Good question...
ehnto•20m ago
The answer in general is we monitor things to understand them, so we know how they will affect us. Same thing we do for all the metrics that allow us to forecast the weather every week.
generj•39m ago
Because it would be really nice to know if some of the currents collapse when it happens rather than months later.

Even beyond that immediate need, the oceans are incredibly poorly studied and are of massive economic and military value to the United States. Baseline statistics on currents could be very useful for all kinds of as yet unknown science and applications. Countries that run a big navy do ocean science. It’s a form of dual purpose funding that benefits both civilian and military ships.

fooqux•39m ago
Because if they suddenly stop, it will quite likely have devastating repercussions for the entire globe. Weather patterns (which also effects food growing), sea life (more food), and probably some other non-food related things too!
wahnfrieden•35m ago
Won’t markets adjust to that though. Market needs will lead to just-in-time innovation! If not, then victims can sue after damages incurred to recover their losses.
AlotOfReading•36m ago
Because the other responses are incredulously focused at why someone would ask such a dumb question, the answer is that oceans affect everyone's lives.

Ocean currents and temperatures are major factors in storms, economic activity like trade, and ecosystems across the country. Monitoring them costs virtually nothing, and the benefits are huge.

mbgerring•26m ago
Can you think of any economically valuable reason why it might be important to know about weather trends or events in advance? Any at all?
mothballed•10m ago
If it's economically valuable wouldn't the evil capitalist bastards squeeze their reserves or peasants a little drier to create their little money printing weather trend predictor? Or you mean it's economically valuable but negative or low ROI?
Ar-Curunir•25m ago
First of all, science is good in and of itself. Second of all, this science in particular seems helpful to predict the impact of potentially disastrous climate change.
drfloyd51•22m ago
No. It’s not.

And you know it.

Shame on you.

emodendroket•19m ago
Because the information could sensibly inform public policy, potentially has serious effects on everyone, and doesn't obviously lend itself to private actors paying for its collection because there's no great way to monetize it. Though I wonder how genuine the question really is.
steve_adams_86•14m ago
Where I work we research some environmental data like ocean temperature (at depth and at surface), currents, acidity, salinity, and oxygen content. Most of this occurs at the surface, but a lot occurs via CTD (many depths) and autonomous drones along the continental shelf in BC, Canada.

You'd think this stuff isn't worth monitoring, but it paints a very interesting picture of where things were, where they are now, and where they're going.

We also do experiments on key species of the food web, analyze environmental DNA to see what's present and where, and generally try to figure out what this data says about living things and how they will handle these changes.

The bottom line is that something as significant as ocean currents will have massive implications for crucial things like transport, food, agriculture, and more.

This stuff is integral to the stability of everything you care about.

And it's not looking great. Acidity is increasing, temperature is increasing, oxygen is decreasing, food webs are transforming; we need to know what this means ASAP, and we need to figure out how to adapt. This isn't your kids' kid's problems alone. You will likely experience impacts in your lifetime.

A simple example: fat, nutrient-rich foundational species of the BC Coast's food web are gradually decreasing in population and presence, being replaced by less nutrient-dense species from warmer climates. Countless juvenile fish which underpin our commercial fishery stocks depend on the richer, more nutritious species to thrive. This could impact their populations and lead to even more expensive fish; and we're talking about species which were plentiful and affordable in my lifetime. As those species decrease in quantity, the higher trophic levels suffer as well. This will be reflected in countless ways.

We need to measure this stuff because it's the beating heart of our planet, and it's changing for the worse (as far as our well-being is concerned).

jbxntuehineoh•10m ago
Can someone explain how people like you avoid choking to death on your own saliva?
1m ago
You missed some of the biggest donors of all:

Greg Brockman and Sam Altman

Greg was one of Trump's biggest individual donors for 2025.

gruntled-worker•27m ago
Let's not forget that the cause of the problem is worse than the effect of the problem.
spankibalt•19m ago
77,302,580 Americans made it happen. 87,037,184 voting-elligible Americans sat it out.
Rekindle8090•14m ago
There's no one to blame but the left. The worst candidate in american history and somehow they still lost?
OutOfHere•2m ago
Both sides had their "worst" candidate, but in different ways. One of them was a convicted felon.
WolfeReader•2m ago
That makes no sense whatsoever. Voting for Trump (or anyone with an R by their name) is wrong; sitting out a vote is wrong. Why save all the blame for the side that actually put up resistance, however ineptly?
root_axis•1m ago
Interesting how "the worst candidate in history" is not to blame.
egypturnash•3m ago
Sat it out, or were forced out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_efforts_to_restrict...
AdieuToLogic•8m ago
> And it’s not just a Trump or Republican thing either. For example crime stats in blue cities ...

Trying to "both sides" dismantling oceanographic science by equivocating it with "blue cities often tell a misleading story" is disingenuous at best and can easily be interpreted as deceitful by a reasonable person.

U.S. to Dismantle System Tracking Atlantic Currents That Are at Risk of Collapse

https://e360.yale.edu/digest/trump-ooi-amoc
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