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Show HN: Uruky (EU-based Kagi alternative) now has Image Search and URL Rewrites

https://uruky.com/?il=en
84•BrunoBernardino•2h ago
You can get a 2h free trial by solving a proof-of-work captcha when topping up your account for the first time.

If you'd like to learn more, an independent interview was posted a couple of weeks ago [1], and the FAQ [2] has a lot of information as well.

For the source code sharing, we've talked with lawyers and are inclined to no longer require the NDA/NCC for privacy reasons shared with us before (signing requires identification), but instead use a source-available permissive license that doesn't allow competition, like PolyForm Shield [3] (we do still have about 6 months before finalising a decision, here).

This does come with a lot more risks for us (it's harder to track down if someone publishes the code or uses it against the license), but given we've already passed 100 monthly active accounts, we're feeling more confident it's an acceptable risk.

The plan is to give logged in accounts (who are 12 months old or more) a way to download a ZIP of the current code base that's in the server.

Obviously there's no easy way to prove that's the case, but we're open to ideas/suggestions if someone here has them.

[1]: https://theprivacydad.com/interview-with-the-engineer-of-uru...

[2]: https://uruky.com/faq

[3]: https://polyformproject.org/licenses/shield/1.0.0

Comments

Munksgaard•1h ago
Interesting! All the license stuff aside, there's definitely a desire for more EU-first services like this.
danielrmay•1h ago
Does Uruky provide an API, or allow API usage such a way that I can leverage it as part of an agent workflow, or otherwise, in place of something like DuckDuckGo?
amarcheschi•1h ago
There should be according to their faq https://uruky.com/faq
BrunoBernardino•1h ago
Yes, we do offer an API and are transparent about the rate limits (no search limits) in the FAQ.
ainiriand•1h ago
It is a bit hard to evaluate the potential when you need to top up and do a captcha just for evaluation purposes. The barrier of entry is quite high.
BrunoBernardino•1h ago
To be clear, you don't need to top up (only click the link or try a search) _and_ do the captcha. You can _either_ top up for a month, _or_ do the proof-of-work captcha (should just be clicking a checkbox and giving it a few seconds).

The reason for the higher barrier of entry is bots/abuse. Up until a few weeks ago we didn't even have the captcha option. Without any kind of identification, it's impossible to prevent automated/bot signups, and they can abuse the system to oblivion.

I understand that's not ideal, though I hope it still makes sense!

iLoveOncall•1h ago
I'm not making a freaking account before I can even run a single search.
Munksgaard•1h ago
As far as I can tell, Kagi also requires you to create an account before you can try it out. You can of course disagree with that practice, but it is not like Uruky is requiring something far out of the ordinary.
BrunoBernardino•1h ago
To create an account you only need to click a link (so the account number can be randomly generated for you), not provide any information. I understand if that's not good enough for you, though.
aniviacat•1h ago
> EU search providers (Marginalia, Mojeek, EUSP, etc.).

Does this mean this is just a meta search engine without its own index?

If so, the comparison to Kagi seems misleading.

The question would turn from "why not Kagi" to "why not SearxNG".

freehorse•1h ago
Kagi is also a metasearch engine, as it combines several third-party indexes.
SyneRyder•1h ago
Kagi is also a meta search engine. The only Kagi-owned index is Teclis, which is very small and really only indexes RSS feeds of small sites. The Kagi API supplements its Teclis results with additional results from Marginalia.

It would be nice to have more search indexes available though, especially via APIs.

I wish Kagi was a search index, back when I was a Kagi subscriber that's what I hoped my funds were going towards building.

BrunoBernardino•59m ago
Good question! We also have Uruky Site Search, our own index, which is quite tiny at the moment, but we hope to grow, eventually. Kagi's own index is Teclis, which is one of their smaller providers as well.
aniviacat•42m ago
Sounds good, thanks for the clarification.
SyneRyder•
danielspace23•1h ago
I think that, more than EU metasearch engines, we need EU search indexes. EUSP is already something, but they seem to be working rather slowly, compared to how quickly Brave built their own index.

It's also trivial to run a perfectly working metasearch engine with the same sources as Uruky, it's called Searxng.

In any case, good luck on this project. I personally don't think it's for me. Maybe a better user interface would change the equation, but as of now I'll stick to Qwant.

BrunoBernardino•1h ago
Yes! Uruky Site Search is our own EU-based index and we'd love to expand it, but that takes an enormous amount of resources (which we don't yet have).

Besides EUSP we also allow you to choose and use Mojeek and Marginalia, two other big EU-based indexes, and by using Uruky with them, you're supporting them financially, directly.

carlosjobim•54m ago
Suggested name: Memory hole.
evilmonkey19•1h ago
I really like the idea and that it's eu-made a love it. A fee things I see with kagi which are useful and improvements:

- Hire a UI/UX person NOW! My parents and gf like using google and kagi because are easy to use.

- add the widgets like the football or the show the local store with the phone number asap. My gf is thinking about moving away from kagi because of this.

- the quick ai response is extremely useful.

- Indexing websites is super important. People doesnt know where to put the content in a website or how to make accessible. Many times i use google due to this fact.

- Make a family subscription.

- make it funny, easy to use and welcoming. The branding is SUPER important.

Good luck and I really wish you to succeed! Im paying for an account ;)

BrunoBernardino•53m ago
Thank you for your suggestions and support!

- Ouch. We get a lot of love for our UI/UX, which I guess just goes to show taste is personal. If you have any particular points of friction, we'd love to hear about them.

- Only Serper allows for this, so we're very hesitant. If other providers allowed it, we could definitely consider it.

- We won't have Generative AI, sorry.

- Could you clarify?

- Check out the interview I gave The Privacy Dad, I explain the problems for something like that.

- Roger!

wolvoleo•43m ago
Big plus for not doing unrequested AI stuff <3
embedding-shape•50m ago
> Uruky is a private search engine focused on personalization

> - Indexing websites is super important. People doesnt know where to put the content in a website or how to make accessible. Many times i use google due to this fact.

Is there a way to build a search engine that doesn't involve either building or accessing a index somehow? I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, is this for the website builders or for the users, who the "indexing of websites" is super important? The "people doesn't know" part sounds like it's for website authors, but the last part makes it sound like the context is search engine users.

my_throwaway23•1h ago
As much as I'd prefer a smaller, non-american operator (for most anything really), I'm extremely hesitant to pay directly for search.

For this service, the "just an ID as account" looks nice and private on the surface, but once you look at payment methods, it's 100% personally identifiable. If it's so privacy-focused - where's the payment option for transferring Monero?

As for the code - don't get me started. Source available? NDAs?

Smells "Private VPN" funny to me.

BrunoBernardino•56m ago
We're working towards accepting cash by mail in a month or two, and regarding cryptocurrencies, we've been trying to reach out to proxysto.re unsuccessfully for that. If you know of a similar option, we'd love to hear about it!
embedding-shape•47m ago
If the goal truly is privacy, and that's why you're adding cryptocurrency options, then adding a middleman like "proxysto.re" or any other, then you're not giving users the privacy you say you want to give. You really need to handle that on your end, if that's something you want to offer for the purpose of privacy.

Take a look at how Mullvad implemented it, which I guess is where you got the "cash in a letter" method from, they also handle cryptocurrencies by themselves for exactly this reason, there is no way for you to actually be able to fulfill the privacy promise otherwise.

wolvoleo•40m ago
I have to agree with embedding-shape, don't use a middleman please. Just accept monero payments yourself <3

Once you accept Monero I'll give it a try :)

RandomGerm4n
Cider9986•1h ago
I will pay for search once Kagi or Brave accepts Monero and offers a reasonable price. Can I pay for Uruky with Monero? If you're worried about regulations consider reaching out to proxysto.re
BrunoBernardino•21m ago
Thanks! I have reached out over a week ago to them via email and Signal, to crickets. Let me know if you know why or how to reach them, or alternatives.
cromka•1h ago
I hate to say this, but those recent EU alternative counteroffers for popular products bare some really unfortunate names....
BrunoBernardino•1h ago
From our FAQ:

> The name has no special meaning but we read it like "Euro-key" in English. Names are hard, and we're aware it can remind people of Uruk and Uruk-hai. That's OK.

I completely understand your point, though. It's not "Google"!

_ache_•22m ago
"Google", for french speaking people, looks like "Gogol" which means "stupid" or "retarded".
alex7o•1h ago
I live in the EU and I use kagi, but I think you fail to understand why kagi is good and useful. In the end of the day I need a search engine to find stuff and kagi is better than google for the things I and my AI agents are searching for. If you don't get that no amount of better privacy is worth my time as a person as shit searches mean agents don't works so well a.k.a more expensive or my room becomes toastier for the agents that I run locally. (I can use it for boring personal searches, but I do 2/3 of these a day, so I am not paying 5€ for that)
scrollaway•43m ago
Agreed. The noise in tech circles often gets founders to conflate ten different things into a product that no longer makes sense. “Eu made alternative to Kagi”? Cool, we need European search engines, sign me up. “Privacy is such a priority we’re looking to accept cash by mail”? Okay, you’re never gonna build a serious competitor, never mind.
wolvoleo•40m ago
Yeah Mullvad that accept cash in the post are not a serious VPN provider at all, right.
carlosjobim•46m ago
I think this is excellent so that Kagi can focus on making the best search engine instead of trying to please the angriest and most difficult customers.
wolvoleo•44m ago
Interesting. Being EU-based is a huge plus over Kagi in my opinion.

I also like that they don't ask any personal data, even email address. I like services that don't want any personal details. Like with Mullvad, where they just give you a random number and that's your account ID <3 Unfortunately Mullvad enshittified in other ways so I had to move to ProtonVPN. But services that act like that are great IMO. Unfortunately a lot of services apply "Know your Customer" BS even though they are not in the financial sector.

However I wonder where they get their search data from. But it's worth investigating.

BrunoBernardino•22m ago
It should be clear in the FAQ. All Europe-based. Our current search providers:

- Mojeek - EUSP - Marginalia - Linkup - Serper (the only non-EU, being UK and proxying Google) - Uruky Site Search (our own index) - Pixabay (images)

I'd be curious to hear about your Mullvad experience (feel free to email me).

wolvoleo•15m ago
Well Mullvad stopped providing port forwarding, which is necessary for good torrent support (especially if you use public torrents and you need ones that aren't seeded a lot).

They also stopped supporting openvpn which I need. Wireguard only now.

It's not enshittification in terms of ads etc but it is reduction of possibilities because they already make enough money on the people using the main features.

But anyway I rely on both things so I moved over.

bigblind•38m ago
It doesn't do great on recent events it seems. The amusement park Walibi Belgium recently announced a company called RMC is doing a makeover of their wooden roller coaster, so I did a search for "walibi belgium rmc", and it found one very out-of-date article about earlier rumours, and a bunch of less relevant stuff.
BrunoBernardino•16m ago
Thanks! I'm currently in the middle of building a date filter I expect to launch later today.

Still, was this using Mojeek or EUSP? Have you tried Linkup or Serper for those kinds of searches? You don't have to change your default search providers, you can just choose one from the bottom of the results list.

axegon_•38m ago
I'd be more than willing to subscribe and support the project BUT, I need to address the elephant in the room: The reason why I'm against Kagi is the fact that they use Yandex(be it only for images according to their own words) and I'm sure as hell refusing to give a single cent to them. So I guess my question is: sources?
psychoslave•27m ago
What's wrong with Yandex? Is it quality of service being too low? Does the company have tracking records of shady practices, worst than what GAFAM are doing that make customer flee away?
wolvoleo•25m ago
It's Russian. Indirectly you are supporting Putin when you use it. Those sanctions aren't for no reason.
axegon_•20m ago
^ Correct!
chadgpt3•4m ago
Am I indirectly supporting Trump when I use DuckDuckGo?
specproc•25m ago
What's wrong with Yandex? I think every possible criticism of Yandex I can think of could just as easily be leveled at Google or Bing.
asciimoo•35m ago
As a search/metasearch developer, I can heavily recommend Uruky. It is by far the best third party search alternative in terms of how they approach privacy and transparency. Keep up the good work Bruno! <3
BrunoBernardino•17m ago
Thank you so much, Adam! Hister [1] is also an amazing option for people looking to have their own "local" index! And it's FOSS!

[1] : https://hister.org

janandonly•33m ago
I read in your FAQ that you don't support bitcoin payments yet. Might I suggest you have a look at https://www.lightspark.com/capabilities/embedded-finance ?

They make it easy to be compliant with local laws and integrate payment features.

BrunoBernardino•14m ago
Thanks! We're currently trying to get in touch with proxysto.re for that. Light Spark seems based in the US, so we can't consider them, I'm afraid.
chadgpt3•12m ago
Why do you need to involve a third party to implement bitcoin payments?
dizhn•29m ago
Do you have Privacy Pass or some other type of privacy-preserving credentials functinoality?
Alex_toani•27m ago
It's a cool search engine. I agreee that need improve in UI/UX. If UI/UX is great. I will consider to use it.
BrunoBernardino•15m ago
Thanks, if you have any specific points of friction, please let us know (an email is perfectly fine)!
sarjann•22m ago
I think it could help to maybe allow 10 searches free (without logging in) just for someone to see what the UI is like or show an example of the results page. It adds a bit of friction for someone to have to make an account and pay just to test the product.

Kagi lets you test it offline (go incognito and try) " Kagi Search is funded by members, not advertisers: built to find what you need, not sell your attention.

Try 50 free searches, and if you love it, sign up for 100 more before choosing a plan. Searches used "

BrunoBernardino•9m ago
Thanks for the suggestion! That would mean we'd have to count searches, which we don't want to do. With the 2h free trial via proof-of-work captcha it should allow you for much more than that! I know the FAQ for that is outdated! I'll update it later today with a new date filter.
sthix•7m ago
Regarding UI/UX. One thing that immediately catches my as an Design Engineer (being over 7 years Product Designer before that) is that the site looks bland. Nothing that sticks. Also one UX caveat: you are using your accent-color for primary buttons like the sign-up as well as a display variant for text for the "PRIVATE SEARCH YOU CONTROL". The logo is not a strong one, lacks personality, the font choice is also a little "weird".

Just my two cents. But I am glad, that someone is creating an alternative in the EU. Hit me up, if you want to get more design opinions.

mrngld•5m ago
Honestly didn't notice Kagi was US-domiciled. Their meetups I think are typically in Europe and their co-working and office space is in Belgrade.

Anyway, Kagi's excellent, their search results for me are significantly better than Google (and customizable), they've leveraged AI in a way thats optional and, to me, class-leading in its ability to help with search. "But we're EU based" is a product strategy that might land you some local government contracts and a few customers whose key motivation is negative emotion towards others but it's never going to be the path to great success. Spotify didn't conquer the globe because they framed themselves as an anti-US anti-iMusic or anti-Pandora or whatever alternative. They conquered because their product was solid. Nobody cared where it's HQ was.

aniviacat•1h ago
You may want to clarify that in your FAQ, which states this in the very first entry:

> Unfortunately, due to the fact it's too costly to properly avoid bots and other automated tools from abusing our service, we don't offer a free trial.

BrunoBernardino•1h ago
Argh, stale docs! Thanks for the notice, I'll push that fix in the next update later today (currently in the middle of adding an optional date filter).
40m ago
If you are building out your own index, might you consider offering it as an API via pre-paid credits (ala Mojeek, Kagi Teclis?)

I'm only paying Mojeek about $10 - $20 per year in API for my personal metasearch, so I guess this is a terrible market to enter ;) But I'd genuinely be interested, especially if the money is going towards building an index.

BrunoBernardino•12m ago
Uruky does exactly that (it has an API and any searches fund the search providers directly). If you want to _exclusively_ use Uruky Site Search (our index), though, that'd be impossible as it's too small to be used as an exclusive provider. Probably in the future that'll be possible, though.

I'd recommend you look into any of our other search providers if you just want the API search!

Infiniti20•20m ago
In the FAQ, they mention they don’t have an index, they just collect the results from other search engines.
embedding-shape•19m ago
Ok, so say they added their own website index then, how would that help with "People doesnt know where to put the content in a website or how to make accessible"?
BrunoBernardino•8m ago
Uh oh. Where is that? We do have our own index, Uruky Site Search!
•
24m ago
Privacy Pass would also be a good option. You can use it with Kagi, where you’ll have cryptographic tokens that you can use for searches without them being linked to your account. Even if you use a non-anonymous payment method, you could still use the service without leaving a trace.
_diyar•8m ago
but surely you realize that people going to kagi also don’t like google or bing.
SockThief•23m ago
> For web search, Uruky currently integrates Mojeek, Marginalia, EUSP (Ecosia/Qwant) (only works with French, German, or English), Linkup, Serper, and Uruky Site Search.

> For image search, Uruky currently integrates Pixabay and Serper (image results).

https://uruky.com/faq

BrunoBernardino•9m ago
Thank you!
sevg•20m ago
But is Yandex government owned? What about Russians abroad that send money back home to their families, and a percentage of that ends up going via taxes to Putin? Are we boycotting all Russians everywhere globally?
axegon_•17m ago
> Are we boycotting all Russians everywhere globally?

I am and always have.

chadgpt3•5m ago
Americans too, or just Russians?
tumdum_•4m ago
Yes, we boycott anyone who supports Putin’s regime.

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Show HN: Uruky (EU-based Kagi alternative) now has Image Search and URL Rewrites

https://uruky.com/?il=en
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