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Show HN: For 10 World Cups, my model's 2 favorites had the champion every time

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=7013338
19•fabioricardo7•1h ago

Comments

dwedge•1h ago
!remindme tomorrow
mcphage•1h ago
How does this paper not even mention the word "overfitting"?
dmurray•57m ago
The abstract does say

> limitations, principally the small number of tournaments available for validation and the risk of in-sample weight selection

But I agree this model is no more valuable than Paul the Octopus.

mcphage•41m ago
That almost makes it worse—like they're vaguely aware that training too heavily on too small a data set makes badly trained models, but are unaware that it has a name and is an actual identified problem.
dwedge•58m ago
A good AI would calculate refereeing decisions and put Argentina at 100% unless England can pull off a miracle against FIFA today.
fau•32m ago
No good AI would cherry-pick data to this extent. Only people are capable of that
killingtime74•58m ago
"They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time, it works every time." - Brian Fantana, Anchorman
walthamstow•55m ago
It's worth noting that there has only been 24 world cups
immighelper•55m ago
Probably the human pseudonym of Paul the Octopus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_the_Octopus).
mikelward•54m ago
> the model identifies Argentina (28.0%) and Spain (21.1%) as the leading championship candidates
derdi•54m ago
> Applied prospectively to the in-progress 2026 World Cup from the Round of 32, the model identifies Argentina (28.0%) and Spain (21.1%) as the leading championship candidates.

Seems weird to wait to run the "prospective" simulation until the World Cup is already in progress. Although it seems that the model also needs to use "the actual bracket and group-stage performance". So it's not prospective?

swiftcoder•44m ago
It predicts likely winners based on the round of 32 performance (plus prior data). That's still "prospective" with respect to the finals
derdi•36m ago
Yes. I don't like phrasing this as being prospective for the World Cup as a whole. It's for the knockout stage. (Which the abstract says! But the title doesn't.)
glimshe•17m ago
Which is very reasonable. You estimate odds after seeing teams playing with the actual squad selection at that period in time. Otherwise I'd dismiss the predictions as lucky guesses in a row.
kunxue•3m ago
The baseline matters here: favorites win World Cups all the time. How often would "always pick the two pre-tournament favorites" have gotten the champion in these same 10 tournaments? Without that comparison, 10/10 tells us basically nothing.
malthaus•34m ago
now back your claim with money and bet accordingly on betting sites to see if you uncovered some actual alpha here
yardie•33m ago
Does the model account for the blatant favouritism in the refs? We used to laugh about it before but as the cameras have gotten better it has become a lot more visible. And in this case, is turning the tournament into a bit of a joke.

-- Egypt was robbed.

bflesch•16m ago
It's quite unlikely soccer is one of the few sports without a doping problem and with only very few cases where the referee was paid off.

Since ancient times in Rome where they said "bread and games" are needed to keep the commoners happy, many generations of rulers had time to optimize large-scale sports events.

My personal theory is that these kind of extremely unfair decisions in soccer are a net benefit to stability of society, and there's no incentive for the leadership to aim for full fairness in sports.

Hear me out: When a team loses in unfair manner due to bad decisions of the referee, large masses of people feel the psychological pain of being robbed of a win. This feeling of "unfairness" makes the masses more resilient to experiencing "unfairness" in their day-to-day life, for example when a billionaire is not prosecuted in the same way than a common person.

If we turn the logic around and assume that soccer would always be perfectly fair, then the masses would demand the same kind of fairness also in their day-to-day lives. Obviously this demand for fairness is not aligned with an establishment class that wants to extract the maximum value possible from their citizens, and push as far as they can without risking stability of the country.

From an establishment perspective, it makes a lot of sense to condition the masses for "unfairness", and sports is the perfect way to do it. I'm not saying that the individual referees are paid off to let a certain country win, just that the establishment who runs each country (and thereby also run international sports organizations like FIFA) have no incentive to actually create total fairness.

This might also explain issues like the IOC re-instating russia for olympic games, even though they have not retreated from Ukrainian territory yet. It triggers people who strongly feel about morals and ethics, and it brings the point home that the world is unfair and it makes no sense to push for fairness in the greater context.

The benefit is psychological conditioning for people to accept unfairness.

xiaodai•27m ago
how statistic significant is it.
xiaodai•25m ago
but does the model predict the right match up along way? if not it's just wrong wrong make a right
pestatije•24m ago
and how many models did you model?
glenpierce•8m ago
Survivor bias
jacknews•6m ago
The FIFA-planned game schedule is also surprising. Argentina have not had to face a single 'big' contender through the tournament, until now.

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Show HN: For 10 World Cups, my model's 2 favorites had the champion every time

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=7013338
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