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Kimi K3, and what we can still learn from the pelican benchmark

https://simonwillison.net/2026/Jul/16/kimi-k3/
58•droidjj•2h ago

Comments

dsign•59m ago
Another day, another model and another pelican :-)

I can't help but wonder where is the trend going? What will we have in five years? Maybe it will all have puttered out, and we will have moved to the next thing? Or maybe the prompt then will be "make a pelican ride a bicycle", and out will come the genetic code for a giant pelican with extremities suitable for a handle bar and pedals, and an inborn affinity to ride bicycles?

ofjcihen•56m ago
I’m excited for this specific brand of survival horror.
rvz•39m ago
You are thinking too hard on this. This entire "benchmark" is a performative joke for attention that only works on HN.

> What will we have in five years? Maybe it will all have puttered out, and we will have moved to the next thing?

We will just have more of the same.

Yiin•11m ago
You say it's performative joke, but it all depends what you're using model for. So far the rule has been quite straightforward, better models consistently renders pelican in higher quality, I've yet to see an exception. It is also a good enough (for me at least) test for "taste" the model has.
Xx_crazy420_xX•50m ago
I would be surprised if pelican svgs are not part of the training corpus rn
skeledrew•24m ago
If that were the case then it'd do a way better job. Think experienced artist level.
devttyeu•48m ago
> How does the prompt “Generate an SVG of a pelican riding a bicycle” add up to 95 input tokens? OpenAI’s tokenizer counts 10, Anthropic’s counts 10 for Opus 4.6, 30 for Opus 4.7 and 25 for Sonnet 5/Fable 5. Prompting “hi” to Kimi K3 counted 86 tokens, suggesting there may be an 85 token hidden system prompt. It refused to leak it though.

This is quite possibly reasoning-effort prompt which is injected before the opening <think> token whenever you set a custom reasoning effort, see e.g. DeepSeek-V4 max mode prompt: https://huggingface.co/deepseek-ai/DeepSeek-V4-Pro/blob/main...

mesmertech•43m ago
My personal benchmark for new models has been to compare video making skills with something like remotion. Usually reveals if they have any "taste" or outside the box thinking.

I'm starting to not trust any "benchmarks" when it comes to frontier models at least. As an example Sol feels the most "gets stuff done" but has zero taste, or any capability to surprise.

And for frontier models I go one step ahead and try to recreate a complex animation video, with the ability for the model to review its own work. And at this Fable is still the top one. Ex: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDAeAuYyl0E (recreation of Claude announcement video) and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSsVNtGPOIg (recreation of a fireship video). Sol did something similar but you can instantly tell its AI slop from very small things, and it just has no narrative or thought put into the writing.

https://mesmer.tools/benchmarks/ai-video-generation , I usually put basic ones here.

mesmertech•41m ago
And on creativity at least visually, Gemini 3.1 pro is somehow still up there. But its really hindered by its inability to use tool calls effectively or make a long term plan.
BugsJustFindMe•41m ago
> This is expensive—the pelican cost 25 cents!

Engineers get unbelievably silly about evaluating costs of things.

"The tokens are so expensive!" Oh my sweet child, how much would even the least capable human effort cost? This is what the executives properly understand that the programmers don't.

Yiin•39m ago
they're comparing to similar capability llm models, not humans. If one dishwasher does job at similar quality as another dishwasher, but using 30% more water and energy, you wouldn't compare to how much it costs human to do the same work, it would make no sense.
BugsJustFindMe•35m ago
> they're comparing to similar capability llm models, not humans

25 cents is 10x the cost of 2.5 cents, but it's still extremely cheap for the product. It's very much the wrong comparison for a world where the primary competition is still humans who need to eat, and it treats percentage differences as more important than absolute differences when the opposite is true.

jchw•26m ago
Well first of all, any non-trivial use of LLMs is going to be orders of magnitude more tokens than this, usually multiple millions at minimum. Benchmarks are just benchmarks after all.

Secondly, humans vs LLMs are apples vs oranges. It makes no more sense to compare human costs vs LLM costs as it would have to compare human costs vs calculator costs. LLMs are faster and cheaper but extremely different beasts with different limitations. Humans do not one-shot SVGs of pelicans riding bicycles, and they do not charge in tokens.

Comparing LLM cost efficiency is not something that should need to be defended. It's quite straightforward and reasonable...

OsrsNeedsf2P•38m ago
It's incredible Simon still believes pelicans on bikes aren't part of the training set, despite hundreds of them on blogs, forums, and Github. Stuff we put in our company blog shows up known by LLMs 6 months later, and we have 1000x less traffic than Simon's own website
eminence32•28m ago
Pelicans and bikes can be in the training set without them training for this specific benchmark.
semilin•24m ago
They can be in the training set but not deliberately trained for. There may be a lot of people posting pelican svgs, but not typically because they're high quality and worth replicating.
podgietaru•4m ago
More to it, the actual bloody companies are using them as a reference. Maybe it’s a 3d version, not an svg - but it clearly shows they’re on the radar of these companies.
kherud•22m ago
Imagine what amazing SVG generators we could have if Simon had randomized the target image from the start (and companies wouldn't just overfit on pelicans).
hkalbasi•22m ago
Is there a gallery of all pelicans generated by simon over time?
inglor_cz•5m ago
If Simon reads this debate, I would gladly vote for such a gallery. It would belong to "digital heritage of mankind".
mrcwinn•15m ago
K3 is as expensive as Sonnet, not great at writing English, is handing IP back to the Chinese, and once open source will be difficult to run at scale without the compute that OpenAI and Anthropic have largely grabbed.

Sorry, how again is this the end of the frontier labs?

rootlocus•7m ago
According to some benchmarks has the coding capability of Opus at the price of Sonnet, supposedly will be open weights and is not subject to random trade wars with allied states.

Competition is always good.

bakugo•33m ago
Would anyone pay a human to create an SVG of a pelican riding a bike?
BugsJustFindMe•31m ago
In fact humans get paid to create SVGs of all kinds of things.

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