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Why Is Everyone Trying to Build a Solid-State Battery?

https://www.construction-physics.com/p/why-is-everyone-trying-to-build-a
25•crescit_eundo•1h ago

Comments

NooneAtAll3•52m ago
have I misread or 3/4 of the article explained what a battery is and only final tiny part got to "short-circuiting dendrites don't happen without electrolite"?
wolfi1•27m ago
dendrites are an inherent problem with liquid elctrolytes and I would have emphasized that as well
api•33m ago
Tangential to the main article point but…

The energy density scatter plot is physically correct but misleading and everyone makes this mistake.

From an engineering point of view you have to use work delivered at the end of the drive train not fuel raw energy content.

When you do that lithium ion batteries compare more favorably to liquid fuels. That’s because the conversion path is more than 90% efficient. For ICE engines you’re starting with only 20-40% Carnot efficiency (depending on how good and in good shape the engine is) and then losing in the transmission and then losing more because ICE cars have more other gears and moving parts. Power to wheel is pretty terrible. Most of the energy from gasoline heats the air around the car.

This is also why you get outrageous sounding but accurate things like: an EV charged on 100% coal fired electricity emits less carbon than a typical gasoline car. The fact that coal is literal pure carbon fuel is made up for by the high thermal efficiency of a giant supercritical steam turbine vs a small piston engine. Coal burns real hot too (steeper thermal gradient). So more of the energy from coal ends up doing actual work vs heating the air. (Well directly heating the air I mean.)

enslavedrobot•29m ago
Solid state batteries come in several flavours. Most of them don't stop dendrites.

The flavour you want is polymer, single ion conducting solid state with an ion transport activation energy below 10kJ/mol at room temperature and no phase transitions from -40C to 80C.

That is the holy grail of SS batteries.

laxisOp•27m ago
We need way more research on batteries. People cant ingine what is possible if we make battery 10x energy dense.
himata4113•14m ago
I don't think 10x density is possible without getting into nuclear, at least not with the chemistries we know of today, everything at a certain point becomes an explosive.

Speaking of nuclear, getting tons of the material that powers mars rovers and putting them in every home would generate enough power for decades... At the cost of being able to build a nuclear bomb in a garage.

epistasis•14m ago
The past 20 years have made lithium ion 2-3x more dense, both because of some chemistry changes and because of better pack level design.

And it's still improving at about 5% per year.

dzhiurgis•8m ago
Tesla has been around for nearly 20 years. Model S (12 years) has gained 17% of range due to chemistry (rest is system efficiency and simply bigger battery).
toddmorey•12m ago
Agreed, but I think people can imagine and companies are very motivated: powertools, phones, laptops, watches, backup UPS, cars, hospital equipment... there's high demand for durable, long-lasting batteries. I think the research is there, it's just complex chemistry. We'll get there. Impressive to see the progress in EV batteries and they've actually turned out to be more durable than first feared.
wolfi1•23m ago
fun fact: there is already a Sodium-battery with a solid electrolyte - but the operating temperature is above 300^C [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium%E2%80%93sulfur_battery
ck2•20m ago
are dendrites why so many people are now burning down their apartment/complex charging their scooters

is LiFePo4 immune to dendrite shorts? Or do they happen just don't burn?

reportingsjr•11m ago
There are a number of reasons why lithium batteries may catastrophically fail and catch fire. Dendrite shorts is one, another reason is poor alignment of the layers during assembly, allowing for eventual shifting of layers leading to internal shorting. Another is conductive or sharp debris getting into the battery during manufacturing, and after a while the anode/cathode separator getting pierced by the debris. Lots of reasons!
thelastgallon•9m ago
Aren't sodium batteries close to production and a lot cheaper and safer?

Ambri was working on large scale batteries which seemed like a pretty good idea (looks like they ran out of money): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambri_Inc.

trollbridge•11m ago
I can - it’s called a bomb. Some of the problems with batteries are heat dissipation (one of those problems that superconductors would mostly solve), fire safety, and end of life disposal. Higher energy density makes it even worse.

A good place to start would be a BMS on individual cells that monitors them for general degradation, unexpected discharge, unexpected temperature changes, and can remove a failing cell from the array.

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Why Is Everyone Trying to Build a Solid-State Battery?

https://www.construction-physics.com/p/why-is-everyone-trying-to-build-a
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