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The Origin of Consciousness (2008)

https://blog.plover.com/brain/Jaynes.html
18•skm•1h ago

Comments

pavel_lishin•47m ago
I think this was also one of the inspirations for Neal Stephenson's "Snow Crash", which also deals with (among other things) the nature of consciousness and religion in the human mind.
mjd•8m ago
It was definitely the inspiration for one of the subplots of _The Big U_. A faction of college students regressed to a bicameral mentality and would hold rituals in which they waited for oracular speech from an electric fan.

I remember thinking at the time I read it “I don't know how anyone could understand this book without reading Jaynes first”.

N_Lens•40m ago
I find the description of consciousness in this article very narrow (Only arising post language). Post language consciousness is a particular type of consciousness, and the same can be said of post DMT consciousness (Which is sometimes without language).
TheHardProblem•7m ago
As somebody who understands the perceived limitations of the materialist take on consciousness in light of recent decades of seeming philosophical traction (Searle, Chalmers), I have to admit how many ways LLMs proved me wrong.

Rather, how much of it is just language.

We went from completing words to completing sentences, paragraphs, essays, code files, pixel arrangements, music, and more just by aggregating and modeling all that in English.

I was amazed that predicting a word can emerge into knowledge, creativity, productivity - the stuff of thoughts.

It doesn’t happen to anyone (the thinking) but I think they still qualify as thoughts, just without a thinker.

mjd•6m ago
That's exactly Jaynes's theory: consciousness not only arrived after the invention of language, it arrived after the invention of writing, literature, agriculture, metallurgy, and government bureaucracy.

You don't have to like it, but that's the theory that is being discussed.

ElFitz•26m ago
And yet anendophasia is a thing. Some people think without an inner monologue, without words[^0]. And they seem to do so quite well and quite successfully.

[0]: https://johnrmiles.com/life-without-an-inner-monologue/

GlenTheMachine•4m ago
Isn't this a testable hypothesis? If consciousness spread virally and isn't a natural outgrowth of the physical structure of the brain, then presumably isolated indigenous tribes would still have pre-consciousness mental processes, and that should be detectable somehow.

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